0 CYA and 0 FC. Need advise

[proavia]

Your best bet is to stay out of the pool stores. As you can see, they provide inconsistent and blatantly WRONG advice.

Seriously consider purchasing one of the Test Kits Compared.
These aren't really something available at the pool stores or on Amazon.
Check out tftestkits.net

 

[LovinPoolLife]

You see a common theme here..... No more pool store testing or advice. It will drive you nuts. We see it time and time again. Do not purchase their chemicals. Test your own water first, then we can show you what you need and YOU choose where to shop. YOU can take control of the water.

But it all starts with the proper test kit. From there, we can coach you through the process.

I found the Taylor k2005 test kit on Amazon. Would this one work well?

 

[proavia]

No - you need a K2006C or one of the two TFTestkit kits.
Test Kits Compared

Be careful of getting a test kit from Amazon - no telling how long it's been sitting around. The reagents have a finite life.

 

[Lake Placid]

That's 75% of a gallon. Not 3 or 4. Or even 16. Or 36

Like for real what is wrong with them ?

There is selling stuff and there there is filling your pool with bleach instead of water.


This is what our pools look like LPL
How Clear is TFP Clear?

We'd love to show you how for nothing but feels. It's a pretty sweet deal if I do say so myself.

I fought for as long as I could not to but had to reply…perhaps March was a bad month. Gotta get those numbers up in April….flowers are blooming and liners need bleaching. Besides this is last years stock that’s already degraded to saltwater. QUADRUPLE THE DOSE….it won’t hurt anything and just think about the margins. LACKEE

 

[Mdragger88]

I found the Taylor k2005 test kit on Amazon. Would this one work well?

No, That one is missing a very important test - the fas/dpd test.
The Taylor k2006 c, tf100, & tfpro are the only ones that contain this test which is why they are recommended.

I suggest that you go with the tf100 or tfpro & also select the slam option as you’ll need the extra reagents.
This will be a drop in the bucket compared to all the chlorine they were trying to sell you at once that would’ve nuked your poor liner which is also thousands of dollars to replace.

Order one of those three,
add the 5ppm of liquid chlorine each day until it comes,
& just breathe ! We got u !

 

[Newdude]

In the two price brackets :


K2006 (no C) too small

TF100 2.7X the supplies

-------------------------

K2006C. Too many CH and TA tests and not enough FC tests. May have sat on a shelf for a long time.

TFpro. Nice case. Included $44 stirrer. Supplies better suited for our needs. Guaranteed fresh.

 

[LovinPoolLife]

No, That one is missing a very important test - the fas/dpd test.
The Taylor k2006 c, tf100, & tfpro are the only ones that contain this test which is why they are recommended.

I suggest that you go with the tf100 or tfpro & also select the slam option as you’ll need the extra reagents.
This will be a drop in the bucket compared to all the chlorine they were trying to sell you at once that would’ve nuked your poor liner which is also thousands of dollars to replace.

Order one of those three,
add the 5ppm of liquid chlorine each day until it comes,
& just breathe ! We got u !

I was wondering. If when doing the SLAM and I only add let’s say 2 or 3 gal of shock then wait 1/2 hr and FC drops to 0 then repeat again and again. Wouldn’t the ammonia be consuming my chlorine and making the problem worse. How does adding a little at a time kill it. Wouldn’t it be more effective to add a lot of shock at once to overpower the ammonia?

 

[Newdude]

Wouldn’t the ammonia be consuming my chlorine and making the problem worse

Just the opposite. The chlorine makes less ammonia.

But.

Big. Giant. Mondo. But.

CYA buffers the FC so it doesn't ruin your finish at high levels. 10FC with 0 CYA is harsh and it gets worse above that. So you do as many little doses as you need.

If you add CYA, the ammonia turns it into more ammonia, and that's where it gets worse.

So kill the ammonia, then add 30 CYA, then SLAM because the elevated FC levels (up to 28 FC for those of us with SWGs) will be buffered by the CYA.

 

[Lake Placid]

I was wondering. If when doing the SLAM and I only add let’s say 2 or 3 gal of shock then wait 1/2 hr and FC drops to 0 then repeat again and again. Wouldn’t the ammonia be consuming my chlorine and making the problem worse. How does adding a little at a time kill it. Wouldn’t it be more effective to add a lot of shock at once to overpower the ammonia?

Generally speaking it takes 10 times the amount of ammonia in the water of FC to neutralize it. The safest and recommended approach is to add chlorine in smaller batches and retest until you hold FC. That way you know the ammonia is fully neutralized and you don’t risk damaging your liner or other components by creating a bleach bath in your pool by overdosing the amount needed.

 

[marshdweller1968]

I found the Taylor k2005 test kit on Amazon. Would this one work well?

That is the test kit I use. It’s great. Easy to use. Can do everything you need.

 

[SJPoe]

I found the Taylor k2005 test kit on Amazon. Would this one work well?

The reason we don't recommend that kit is because it doesn't have the FAS-DPD Chlorine test in it - which you need to be able to accurately measure your free chlorine. The 2005 kit has the yellow-tint Chlorine test (often called the color-block test) which is fine as a sanity check, but not accurate enough when you're trying to maintain a specific level. It also doesn't go high enough for you to tell if you have 5ppm of FC, or 15ppm FC



The 2006c or TF-100 tests use the drop test (FAS-DPD) which can accurately tell you if you have 5, 15, 25 FS etc.

Bite the bullet. Spend the $100 on the K2006C at Amazon (and give Jeff another bonus) or spend $83 at TFTestkits.com for the TF-100 and get everything you need from a small business that stands behind their stuff 100%. Consider adding the SLAM option for $25 to get extra FAS-DPD tests which you may end up needing. The TF-Pro comes with the stirrer - which makes life easier, but is not required.

Personally, I got the TF-100 initially, and then added the stirrer, and then added the salt tests, and then bought the fancy case - I could have just bought the TF-Pro-Salt at the start and it would have saved me money

 

[Newdude]

Personally, I got the TF-100 initially, and then added the stirrer, and then added the salt tests, and then bought the fancy case - I could have just bought the TF-Pro-Salt at the start and it would have saved me money

Many do exactly that as they get sold on the program. I get it. I do.

Even when they do it the other way with me jumping up and down to just go to the TFpro or TFpro salt, I focus on being happy that they're using Talor based drops and i can help along the way.

 

[Mdragger88]

I’m still using my tf100 - it’s approximately 8 years old - the little plano box is still kickin!
It’s served me well.

 

[Newdude]

I’m still using my tf100 - it’s approximately 8 years old - the little plano box is still kickin!

AWESOME point !!!!

The bulk of the kit cost is the case, vials, the CYA tube, smart stir (in the tfpro) and the PH block. Once you have all that the refills go on sale for $43something and $44something for the two TF kits each spring.

It's much cheaper to replace the reagents so don't think you'll be buying the full kit each year.

 

[LovinPoolLife]

Just the opposite. The chlorine makes less ammonia.

But.

Big. Giant. Mondo. But.

CYA buffers the FC so it doesn't ruin your finish at high levels. 10FC with 0 CYA is harsh and it gets worse above that. So you do as many little doses as you need.

If you add CYA, the ammonia turns it into more ammonia, and that's where it gets worse.

So kill the ammonia, then add 30 CYA, then SLAM because the elevated FC levels (up to 28 FC for those of us with SWGs) will be buffered by the CYA.

How will I know when the ammonia is “dead”, when the pool will hold free chlorine?

 

[Newdude]

How will I know when the ammonia is “dead”, when the pool will hold free chlorine?

Yes. When it holds 80% or so of the chlorine after 30 mins. There will be some loss from the algae also.

 

[LovinPoolLife]

Yes. When it holds 80% or so of the chlorine after 30 mins. There will be some loss from the algae also.

Is the ammonia ever bad to the point a partial drain/fill is needed? I’m wondering if that’s the route I should take. Or try the shock then slam method first. Not sure how many days it takes but I work full time, so trying to add chlorine and test every 30 min on weekdays is impossible

 

[mgtfp]

Generally speaking it takes 10 times the amount of ammonia in the water of FC to neutralize

Exactly.

When tracking that back to the CYA that was decomposed into ammonia by bacteria, you get the chain 10ppm CYA turn into 3.3ppm ammonia that require about 30ppm FC to clean up.

So you do need huge amounts of chlorine to clean up an ammonia mess, and that's where those pool store numbers probably come from. "Computer said you need 100ppm of FC". But on no planet does it make sense to add 100ppm of FC all at once. This amount basically cleans up the mess from 30ppm CYA turned ammonia. Was it really 30ppm CYA? Don't just dump and pray, add FC gradually until FC starts to hold.

 

[mgtfp]

Wouldn’t the ammonia be consuming my chlorine and making the problem worse.

Ammonia is not an organism that eats chlorine and grows doing so. The ammonia was created by bacteria eating CYA and pooping it out as ammonia. So, you shouldn't add more CYA, aka "food" in the eyes of the bacteria.

Once you add chlorine, it will kill off the bacteria very quickly. There may be no more of these particular bacteria left to start with because they've already run out of food when you opened the pool.

Ammonia and chlorine react quite violently with each other, turning the ammonia essentially into nitrogen gas that leaves the pool. This creates a huge chlorine demand, and within minutes of adding chlorine it will react with ammonia. Once all the ammonia has reacted with chlorine, FC will start to hold.

 

[mgtfp]

Is the ammonia ever bad to the point a partial drain/fill is needed? I’m wondering if that’s the route I should take. Or try the shock then slam method first. Not sure how many days it takes but I work full time, so trying to add chlorine and test every 30 min on weekdays is impossible

You've got the weekend coming soon, stay on top of it as much as possible until then, and then go full steam.

Draining can certainly reduce the amount of chlorine you need to add. But 20000 gal is quite a bit, and you can't drain a vinyl pool 100%. You need to keep at least 12 inches in the shallow end to avoid the liner coming out of place. With an in-ground pool you also need to make sure to not drain below the water table.