0 CYA and 0 FC. Need advise

[LovinPoolLife]

Ammonia is not an organism that eats chlorine and grows doing so. The ammonia was created by bacteria eating CYA and pooping it out as ammonia. So, you shouldn't add more CYA, aka "food" in the eyes of the bacteria.

Once you add chlorine, it will kill off the bacteria very quickly. There may be no more of these particular bacteria left to start with because they've already run out of food when you opened the pool.

Ammonia and chlorine react quite violently with each other, turning the ammonia essentially into nitrogen gas that leaves the pool. This creates a huge chlorine demand, and within minutes of adding chlorine it will react with ammonia. Once all the ammonia has reacted with chlorine, FC will start to hold.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for explaining that. You all are so incredibly helpful.

 

[Mdragger88]

You certainly can drain & refill at least some of the water if its a safe option. You’ll still need to do the
SLAM Process but it will take wayy less chlorine & effort.

See

Draining - Further Reading

www.google.com

 

[LovinPoolLife]

You've got the weekend coming soon, stay on top of it as much as possible until then, and then go full steam.

Draining can certainly reduce the amount of chlorine you need to add. But 20000 gal is quite a bit, and you can't drain a vinyl pool 100%. You need to keep at least 12 inches in the shallow end to avoid the liner coming out of place. With an in-ground pool you also need to make sure to not drain below the water table.

I’m going to order the

Exactly.

When tracking that back to the CYA that was composed into ammonia by bacteria, you get the chain 10ppm CYA turn into 3.3ppm ammonia that require about 30ppm FC to clean up.

So you do need huge amounts of chlorine to clean up an ammonia mess, and that's where those pool store numbers probably come from. "Computer said you need 100ppm of FC". But on no planet does it make sense to add 100ppm of FC all at once. This amount basically cleans up the mess from 30ppm CYA turned ammonia. Was it really 30ppm CYA? Don't just dump and pray, add FC gradually until FC starts to hold.

Oh my!! I am wondering how much chlorine I am going to need and how many days it will take. My CYA when I closed the pool in October was 150. I was at 3 CYA just this Monday and the pool store had me add stabilizer, I only added 2 1/2 lbs. and had water retested. Pool store said it was a my 10. Now it’s back to 3.

 

[mgtfp]

I’m going to order the

Oh my!! I am wondering how much chlorine I am going to need and how many days it will take. My CYA when I closed the pool in October was 150. I was at 3 CYA just this Monday and the pool store had me add stabilizer, I only added 2 1/2 lbs. and had water retested. Pool store said it was a my 10. Now it’s back to 3.

It might be worth getting an ammonia test kit. Maybe you can grab one in the aquarium section of a pet store on the way to or from work.

 

[PoolGate]

I have gone through this. You need to get your own ammonia test kit. Just use an aquarium kit. You will need to add chlorine until all of the ammonia is neutralized. When I did my neighbor's pool, that was over 50 gallons of 8% chlorine. If your CYA was at 150 like you said, you are going to need a LOT of chlorine. Do not add any CYA until the ammonia is totally gone.

 

[LovinPoolLife]

I have gone through this. You need to get your own ammonia test kit. Just use an aquarium kit. You will need to add chlorine until all of the ammonia is neutralized. When I did my neighbor's pool, that was over 50 gallons of 8% chlorine. If your CYA was at 150 like you said, you are going to need a LOT of chlorine. Do not add any CYA until the ammonia is totally gone.

My CYA was at 150 in fall but I did drain water level to just below the returns. The snow and rain water filled it back up to normal swim level. So I’m hoping CYA was diluted by almost half. I use Champion liquid shock which is 12.5%. Since I don’t have an at home test kit. Would I be safe to just add 2 gallons of shock every 1/2 hr- hr then go get my water tested this evening. And depending on FC level just keep adding then retest tomorrow to see if it starts to hold?

 

[LovinPoolLife]

My CYA was at 150 in fall but I did drain water level to just below the returns. The snow and rain water filled it back up to normal swim level. So I’m hoping CYA was diluted by almost half. I use Champion liquid shock which is 12.5%. Since I don’t have an at home test kit. Would I be safe to just add 2 gallons of shock every 1/2 hr- hr then go get my water tested this evening. And depending on FC level just keep adding then retest tomorrow to see if it starts to hold?

According to a diff pool store a few days ago. She said I need 36 gallons of shock. Of course she says to dump in all at once. I am not going to do that. But does that mean that after adding 36 gal a little at a time will be enough to kill the ammonia?

 

[Newdude]

Would I be safe to just add 2 gallons of shock every 1/2 hr- hr then go get my water tested this evening.

No. You could be holding FC at round 2 and add 10 more rounds.

But does that mean that after adding 36 gal a little at a time will be enough to kill the ammonia?

Maybe. But they don't even know what they don't know. Without testing each round, it's 'dump and pray'

 

[mgtfp]

According to a diff pool store a few days ago. She said I need 36 gallons of shock. Of course she says to dump in all at once. I am not going to do that. But does that mean that after adding 36 gal a little at a time will be enough to kill the ammonia?

I don't know where she got that number from. It will get rid of about 3-4 ppm of ammonia. Whether that's all, is a different question.

 

[LovinPoolLife]

No. You could be holding FC at round 2 and add 10 more rounds.

Maybe. But they don't even know what they don't know. Without testing each round, it's 'dump and pray'

They did an ammonia test and then did some calculations to figure out the amount of shock to get rid of it. But I’m sure they figure on the high side to sell more product. I honestly don’t know what to do. It will take days to even a week to get my own test kit. The water will be shot by then

 

[mgtfp]

Did that pool store test ammonia?

I suspect they applied the "10x" rule on the CC-level, which is wrong. If you want to get an idea how much chlorine you will approximately need, then get an ammonia test kit.

 

[mgtfp]

You were faster...

Do you have the results of that ammonia test?

 

[PoolGate]

My CYA was at 150 in fall but I did drain water level to just below the returns. The snow and rain water filled it back up to normal swim level. So I’m hoping CYA was diluted by almost half. I use Champion liquid shock which is 12.5%. Since I don’t have an at home test kit. Would I be safe to just add 2 gallons of shock every 1/2 hr- hr then go get my water tested this evening. And depending on FC level just keep adding then retest tomorrow to see if it starts to hold?

Don't you have a pet store near you? This is a common on the shelf item. Your local grocery store might even have it.

To neutralize all the ammonia, what I did was add around 5 gallons of bleach at a time. I waited 20-30 minutes and tested for chlorine and ammonia. If there was still ammonia, I kept adding bleach. If there was ammonia, typically chlorine level would be 0 after 20 minutes or so. It reacts instantly. So testing both is preferred but you could get away with testing just one.

 

[Donldson]

They did an ammonia test and then did some calculations to figure out the amount of shock to get rid of it.

I speak from experience: those tests aren't perfect and following the TFP method of dosing and testing is much safer. I'm sure I made quite the face when I tested the water 15 minutes after dumping a LOT of chlorine in and the FC was well over 20 in the CYA-free water. Oh, and it wasn't my pool. Things turned out alright but I'm sure I took a a few weeks off the life of that liner.

 

[LovinPoolLife]

You were faster...

Do you have the results of that ammonia test?

She refused to give me any of my water test results. I went to a smaller pool store last night near my house. They are not the type of place to sell a bunch of chemicals as their main business is selling mowers and lawn equipment but they are a pool install company as well. Here are the numbers they gave me:
FC .33
TC 2.54
CC 2.21
CYA 3
PH 7
ALK 112
Hardness 119

They recommend 4 gal, 1 qt,1 pt, 14.6oz of sodium hypochlorite and 10.7oz calcium Hypochlorite

 

[PoolGate]

She refused to give me any of my water test results. I went to a smaller pool store last night near my house. They are not the type of place to sell a bunch of chemicals as their main business is selling mowers and lawn equipment but they are a pool install company as well. Here are the numbers they gave me:
FC .33
TC 2.54
CC 2.21
CYA 3
PH 7
ALK 112
Hardness 119

They recommend 4 gal, 1 qt,1 pt, 14.6oz of sodium hypochlorite and 10.7oz calcium Hypochlorite

You need to test for ammonia. Without knowing if you have ammonia, you can't be sure of next steps. Those pool store results are BS. ".33" FC? "CYA 3"? This is why we recommend NOT to use pool stores.

 

[SJPoe]

The water will be shot by then

The water is already shot...but it's not un-recoverable. Its not going to get much worse in 3 days...
And seriously - stop going to the pool store - all they want to do is sell you stuff. Why do you care about Calcium Hardness in a Vinyl pool ?


How much ammonia was indicated by the test (in PPM). Multiply that by 10 - thats how much FC you need to neutralize it.
If you don't have a test - go to anywhere that sells pet supplies - you should be able to pick up an aquarium Ammonia test for under $10.
So, if its 3PPM Ammonia, you need 30PPM FC to neutralize it. In your 20,000 gallons, thats about 5 gallons of 12.5%

If you have ammonia - do not add anything with stabilizer (CYA) - it'll make things worse.

Add 2 gallons of Chlorine, wait 30 minutes, retest your FC (which is why you need the test kit)...
If it's still at 0FC, add another 2 gallons. Test again. Repeat until you have FC left after 30 minutes - you should be aiming for around 10PPM FC (which again, is why you need the test kit)
At that point, you should have removed all the ammonia, and you'll be at 'SLAM' level for <20PPM CYA
Then follow the SLAM process in the Pool School until your water is perfect again.

 

[mgtfp]

I honestly don’t know what to do. It will take days to even a week to get my own test kit.

Have you ordered one? From what I hear (no experience, they unfortunately don't ship to Australia), Tftestkits is pretty fast with their deliveries.

 

[dBsooner]

Get the TF-Pro. Seriously the best investment I’ve ever made for the pool. It’s actually fun testing the water.

If you want it faster, email them. They usually respond very quickly. They’ll be willing to ship it as fast as you want it for the cost of shipping (you’ll pay extra, but dont have to if you don’t want… they’ll tell you how fast the standard shipping will be).

But you MUST get your own test kit with a FAS/DPD test. That’s required. Without that test, you’re blind. And you can’t drive to the pool store every 30 minutes to test your water. Plus, as you’ve seen, their tests are trash. Just search this forum and you’ll see thousands of posts and hundreds of threads (maybe thousands) that prove this.

Also, get the stirrer. That’s why I recommend the pro. That stirrer makes it SO MUCH EASIER and, in my opinion, better, because you know the reagents are dissolving and mixing correctly and almost instantly.

You’re in good hands here. All the experts are chiming in to help you. But you need to help them help you. Get the test kit. Get the ammonia test kit. Give them your numbers. Let them hold your hand through this. At the end you’ll want to buy them all dinner.

 

[PoolGate]

The water is already shot...but it's not un-recoverable. Its not going to get much worse in 3 days...
And seriously - stop going to the pool store - all they want to do is sell you stuff. Why do you care about Calcium Hardness in a Vinyl pool ?


How much ammonia was indicated by the test (in PPM). Multiply that by 10 - thats how much FC you need to neutralize it.
If you don't have a test - go to anywhere that sells pet supplies - you should be able to pick up an aquarium Ammonia test for under $10.
So, if its 3PPM Ammonia, you need 30PPM FC to neutralize it. In your 20,000 gallons, thats about 5 gallons of 12.5%

If you have ammonia - do not add anything with stabilizer (CYA) - it'll make things worse.

Add 2 gallons of Chlorine, wait 30 minutes, retest your FC (which is why you need the test kit)...
If it's still at 0FC, add another 2 gallons. Test again. Repeat until you have FC left after 30 minutes - you should be aiming for around 10PPM FC (which again, is why you need the test kit)
At that point, you should have removed all the ammonia, and you'll be at 'SLAM' level for <20PPM CYA
Then follow the SLAM process in the Pool School until your water is perfect again.

I used to give this advice as well but I do not think it is true. I think all of the CYA eating bacteria is gone. At this point, adding CYA should not resurrect them or else when all the ammonia was cleared adding CYA would also result in feeding them again. I am not advocating adding CYA now. I think he should wait until the pool is stabilized, but just throwing that out there.