Re-Pipe Recommendations? Help. Pictures!

SoCalPoolFool · Aug 15, 2023

Here we go. Hello please help me, I am looking for any recommendations on my Re-pipe and filter upgrade. I've never done this but I'm really mechanically inclined, I work on all my own stuff, have lots of tools and eager to learn. Been doing hours of research.

Background Info: Skip if you want.
TF-Pro Test kit. Love it! Live in Southern California, Water Temp 84F, 20k Pebble, 2in. Piping, Non-salt, year built 2005, 700 gal spa with 2.5in. suction line, MasterTemp 250 NA Heater #460723 Year 2014, Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST #350305 3HP Year 2016, 2200rpm 8am-4pm, 75% vacuum suction, 2200rpm 9-10pm, old Pentair Purex 315cu. ft. cartridge filter (Replacing), Jandy valves, Poolvergnuegen 2 wheel cleaner (new tires and steering cam from 4 wheel model), Zodiac Cyclone leaf catcher with skimmer sock inside.

I want to install : Have 2 inch Piping
1. Pentair 520 cartridge filter
1a. Filter drain valve instead of 1.5in plug
2. Heater Bypass circuit worth it? (Jandy 3 way valve 4717 & Check valve 7305) or 3 valves?
3. Possibly a Bonded Anode? Pool Tool?
4. Flowmeter, FlowVis? Blue-White?
5. Waterway WYE #672-8000 ABS Plastic?

Or Lasco PVC 475-020

6. Long Sweep 90's everywhere?
7. Unions for future ideas or repairs?
8. Reduce Head Loss, Eliminate street 90's and hard 90's?
9. Glue/Cement recommended. Weld-On 746?
10. Almond paint brand? (Fusion?) , plastic adhesion promoter?
11. Miter/Chop saw for perfect cuts. Blade?
12. Dremal tool for chamfering and reaming pipes?
13. Reciprocating saw blade type? For 18 year old pipes?
14. Alternative MasterTemp 250 year 2014 heater Half Union slip pieces? Will Waterway 413-5110 sweep 90 union fit the heater?

15. Re-use cleaned out unions, saw blade and heat gun? Reamer?

I know it's a lot but I want to do it right and as efficient as possible. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Don't be afraid to tell me I'm doing something wrong. I want it right!

Thank you,
Chris
You can private message me if you'd rather call me.

Jimrahbe · Aug 15, 2023

Chris,

What is your actual goal??

Adding an Anode, will not do anything but make your wallet lighter.. They are like a placebo.. :mrgreen:

Long sweeps and 2" plumbing just at the equipment pad will not have any effect on the overall operation of your pool.

If you just want to make things 'look' different, go for it. But if you are thinking this change will make a difference in water flow, it just will not be enough to even notice.

Tell me why you even think you need a flow meter? What are you going to do with it??

The CCP-520 is a great filter... :goodjob:

Thanks,

Jim R.

Newdude · Aug 15, 2023

Hey Chris, I'll start with the ones I have feelings about. Others will continue.

SoCalPoolFool said:
1. Pentair 520 cartridge filter
1a. Filter drain valve instead of 1.5in plug

SoCalPoolFool said:
2. Heater Bypass circuit worth it?

Yes to increase flow when heater is off, or if you ever had to take the heater out for repairs and such.

SoCalPoolFool said:
3. Possibly a Bonded Anode? Pool Tool?

You have a pool, not an ocean. It's 10% of seawater salinity.

You don't have dissimilar metals touching to need it if you did build an ocean, and certainly not wherever you are installing it. It doesn't cast a magic spell across the water, they need to be installed where they'd protect something, if you had something to protect.

It's a legit thing, that someone misapplied and now it's a common thing for the wrong thing.

SoCalPoolFool said:
4. Flowmeter, FlowVis? Blue-White?

The overwhelming majority of people never need one. Increasing RPMs increases flow and the decreasing RPMs decreases flow. You need to satisfy any flow switches with flow, not a calculated GPM. Ironically, you'll adjust your GPM with RPMs. Just go by them instead.

Also totally fine to install anyway for those who like gadgets / toys.

SoCalPoolFool said:
5. Waterway WYE #672-8000 ABS Plastic?

I'd use a T with sweeps.

SoCalPoolFool said:
6. Long Sweep 90's everywhere?

When space allows, it's best practice. It also doesn't do anything that you'll ever notice. Short pressurized runs don't lose enough to matter, think of your indoor plumbing. Copper 90s everywhere on the feed side with no care how many were used. They are however needed on the drain side where every little bit of restriction matters.

But again, if you're doing it right, use them just because when possible. It won't break the bank.

SoCalPoolFool said:
7. Unions for future ideas or repairs?

Anywhere you'll need to pull something down the road.

SoCalPoolFool said:
9. Glue/Cement recommended. Weld-On 746?

I use standard issue oatys primer / glue. IMO there was no need to build a better mousetrap here.

SoCalPoolFool said:
10. Almond paint brand? (Fusion?)

I like Rustolium 2X for plastic at HD. There will be a shade close enough to 'Pentair Khaki'

SoCalPoolFool said:
11. Miter/Chop saw for perfect cuts. Blade?

Turn your regular blade backwards for PVC.

SoCalPoolFool said:
13. Reciprocating saw blade type? For 18 year old pipes?

For any application, I like Milwaukee 'axe' blades that are 5X (?) thicker and less prone to breaking. Most of the other brands have thick ones too. Make sure you apply pressure forward to seat the pipe against the saw. It'll want to bounce and jump without alot of support on some pipes.

SoCalPoolFool · Aug 16, 2023

Hey Jim thank you so much for your response, I appreciate the honesty.

My goal is to reduce TDH to save electricity and do what's best for my system a little more so than my wallet because a good job should last years, so a small investment is worth it I think and I don't like the feeling of screwing up somewhere and regretting it. Just want to do it right the first time.

Thanks for the anode advice. I just heard it would help protect the copper heat exchanger in my 9 year old heater, she has been neglected before I got here and barely works, but if it doesn't help then I'll forget about it. That's why I want to do the heater bypass circuit to increase flow and incase she leaks or during a SLAM if need be.

You're right, the sweep 90's at the pad won't help much considering what mess is underground but I just figured they couldn't hurt anything? Space permitting. I feel at least eliminating both the street 90s right at the heater would be a little more beneficial? Especially on spa mode 3450rpm, I bought the Waterway sweep 90's #314712 on Leslie's site for $2.78 after their 10% off sale. Hard 90's are over $5 at most places I seen.

A flow meter would just be for calculating my daily turnovers maybe 2 - 3 in the hot summer? and 1.5 - 2 in the winter? Figured it would be easier and more precise than the vacuum guage at the pump technique? I've just been timing how long it takes to drain/transfer my 700gal spa at different rpms and calculating my GPM that way. Haha

I really appreciate your advice and if you have time for more suggestions on any of the other concerns I have I would greatly appreciate that too.
Thanks again!
I am the fool.

Newdude · Aug 16, 2023

SoCalPoolFool said:
A flow meter would just be for calculating my daily turnovers maybe 2 - 3 in the hot summer? and 1.5 - 2 in the winter?

Turnovers are irrelevant. You need to filter the debris that falls/blows in the pool, and bather residuals. Those needs change drastically through the season, and likely backwards from how you're seeing it with more in the extended season (spring/fall) and less in the peak season.

If you're chemistry is good and the pool looses some sparkle, you need more filter time, and if it's sparkling, you can likely lower the filtering time. There is no set number of turnovers to apply as it's a moving target, sometimes by the week.

I cannot reccomend low RPM 24/7 operation enough. My pump uses the same energy at full throttle in 2.25 hours(?) as it does in 24 hours at 1200 RPM. I have never once thought about filtering more/less since 2012. I'm also skimming around the clock. With a 12 hour (etc) schedule, that's alot of time for stuff to blow in the pool and get waterlogged and sink. No matter when something larger than dust blows in my pool, it likely finds its way to the skimmer in minutes.

SoCalPoolFool · Aug 16, 2023

Newdude said:
Hey New Dude thanks so much for all you're input, I greatly appreciate it. I just got your latest message but was already typing this one up.

I've always considered a 24 hour schedule because I know it's best but just unsure how many years my 7 year old pump would last running 24hrs. I can change bearings myself if need be but the rest would be pricey.
I used to run
7am-8am 2500rpm
8am-4pm 2200rpm
4pm-9pm 1000rpm
9pm-10pm 2500rpm
but trying to lower my $500 summer electric bill. Just don't want water quality to suffer at my expense. Still looks sparkling. Even with my 2 wheel cleaner I'd rather run 24hrs and have a clean pool. Right now with summer water temp at 84° I try to keep my FC=5PPM (= 7.5% of CYA) , PH=7.6, TA=90, CH=300, CYA=70, giving me 0.02 LSI. I manual vacuum and brush with the "wall whale" walls & floor every week. I'm considering adding Borates but need to do more research.

Newdude said:
3. Your right my TDS is only 300 (fresh fill last month) and I only use HASA 12.5% Liquid chlorine so not very much salt in my non-salt pool. I just heard the bonded anode would help protect my 9 year old copper heat exchanger in my heater but if it won't then I won't buy one. Thanks.

4. I just wanted a flowmeter to calculate my daily turnover rate maybe 2-3 in the hot summer and 1-2 in the winter? Right now I just drain / transfer my 700 gal spa at different Rpms and time how long it takes then calculate my GPM. Which I guess gets me in the ballpark for free anyway.

5. Are you suggesting a Tee with double sweeps? Would the straight though portion be restricted because of the bump in the middle or is that negligible? Or are you suggesting a single sweep Tee? I'm having trouble finding one that's not DWV.

Pipe single sweep Tee SPEARS_P501-015.jpg

Newdude said:
6. Luckily Leslie's had the Waterway #314712 sweep 90's on their site for $2.78 after their 10% off sale. Hard 90's are over $5 at most places I seen. So saved some coin there. That's why I figured why not use them especially to get rid of the 4 street 90's right in front of the heater. Figured it's got to help a little while in spa mode at 3450rpm?

7. Leslie's had the Waterway #611443 unions for $7 after 10% off so I figured for that price I could make the system easy to dismantle somewhere if need be in the future.

9. Thanks for the glue recommendation I understand my pipe pressures are way lower than sprinklers or something just want to make sure the glue will hold up to the chemicals.

10. Thanks for the paint tip. Should I sand the pipes first or use plastic adhesion promoter or both? Just don't want it flaking or peeling off and exposed to the sun's UV's.

Thanks for all the other tips I think I'll be using a Milwaukee 12v HackZall which has a really short reciprocation and hopefully easy to control. I just want perfectly square cuts to ensure proper seat into the fittings.

I appreciate you taking the time to help me out or anybody else who reads this and I look forward to anything else you think would be beneficial.

Jimrahbe · Aug 16, 2023

Chris,

We do not believe in the turnover myth... :mrgreen:

Filter are there to capture all the junk that falls into your pool each day. They are not there to capture algae.. By the time your filter sees algae it is too late, you have already lost the algae war!! Keeping your FC and CYA in the proper relationship is what keeps your pool sanitized and algae free.

We are not against running a billion turnovers a day, if that is what you want to do, we are just against the idea that you must run X turnovers a day to prevent algae.

You said..

I used to run
7am-8am 2500rpm
8am-4pm 2200rpm
4pm-9pm 1000rpm
9pm-10pm 2500rpm

At those speeds I doubt that your pool pump has very much to do with the $500 electrical bill...

I run my IntelliFlo 24/7, mostly at 1200 RPM and it costs me less than $20 bucks a month.

I have three pools, and they all have 3 HP IntelliFlo pumps, that run 24/7. They are all about 10 years old and still operate as if they were new. I personally believe that running 24/7 is better for the longevity of the pump vs. starting and stopping the pump several times a day. I can't prove this is true, of course... :mrgreen:

I run 24/7 because I have saltwater pools and like generating a little chlorine all the time, and I like skimming all the time. I also like the look of my pool when there is a little water movement.

What is the purpose of your different speeds??

I do not have a heater, so 1200 RPM works well for me.. If I had a heater I'd have to run at 1500 or 1600 RPM.

Please confirm that your skimmers have an operating weir door..

Thanks,

Jim R.

SoCalPoolFool · Aug 16, 2023

All great information thank you again. I have one Pentair Admiral Model S20 skimmer with the wier gate. It was missing when I got here and read how important it was, I had to chip away some concrete chunks to get down to the piviot pins to mount it. So it might have never had one from new.

Definitely the AC is the culprit of the high electric bill, just figured the pump was adding to it so I tried to reduce its run time.

The different speeds were to power my 2 wheel poolvergnuegen cleaner better because from 4pm-9pm my electric kW price goes up, what Edison calls their Time-Of-Use program so I was running at 1000rpm 68watts during those hours.

Electricity prices per kW
Peak 4pm-9pm 50 cents
Off Peak 9pm-8am 39 cents
Super off Peak 8am-4pm 35 cents

I have the Jandy suction valve at 75% cleaner so it will move decently at 2200rpm. The skimmer seems to have decent flow at 25% and I removed the safety float equalizer diverter UFO thing to give the skimmer more suction since it shares the same line as the one main drain I have. I think it's called a 2 port skimmer.

Do I need main drain suction for mixing the water? Should I plug the main drain port so the skimmer gets all suction?

What "ideal" 24hr pump schedule would you recommend for my 20k pool with heater in the loop till I get the bypass installed?
Summer and winter the same?

Thank you again for great advice!

Jimrahbe · Aug 16, 2023

Chris,

Main drains are not really needed, so I would only open it 5 or 10%...

I assume you schedule on the pump, and have no automation system??

Schedule wise, I like what you have now...

Real slow when the electrical are very high..

You need to run whatever speed gets your cleaner working well.. So 2200 for however long it normally take for the cleaner to do a good job.

Then the rest of the time at whatever allows your skimmers to work. I'd try 1500 or 1600 to start.

It sounds like you are already on top of things..

Good job on getting the weir door installed.. Skimming is about 50% less effective without one..

Thanks,

Jim R.

SoCalPoolFool · Aug 16, 2023

Thanks again for the info.

No automation. Just this fool pulling levers. Haha

I'll change to a 24/7 pump schedule today to keep that skimmer working and I won't worry about X amount of turnovers because it will flowing all the time.

Thanks. I noticed the skimmer without the wier gate Crud was just floating on past. Then when the pump turned off everything floated out back into the pool.

I knew nothing about Pools when I started working on this one. Lots of reading on this site. Thanks

and a scholor of diy YouTube University. Haha

I appreciate your time and knowledge. Thanks again!

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Re-Pipe Recommendations? Help. Pictures!

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