Winter South Alabama Monster Green Pool Recovery

[SouthernAlaPool]

I was forced to leave my home due to family emergency and returned to a mess of pool (a 2 week trip, turned into 11+ weeks). While I was gone, the Motor Failed, so there was no filtering for 2+ weeks. Then my volunteer/attendant struggled to get it sorted and obviously let it get worse, said it was getting green. And then, in process of trying to get that sorted, he somehow left the valve on Waste just after Christmas & pumped out half the pool water. End result is I got home 8 days ago to a Half Full Monster Green Swamp. Then, we had a 9 inch Snow Storm w 17F nights, so I've done nothing till today.
And as I was about ready to begin Filling Up the Pool, I had a "Bright idea": Maybe it's better to Treat the Half Pool/Volume of Water before I fill the Pool up all the way? That way the existing water would be at least a bit better than sludge, before I started mixing in all the new clear water. So I went and got some Acid to put in, but I stopped and decided to check with all the TFP Experts to see if anyone can point me in a better direction.

STATUS NOW: It's a 29.5K Gallon Vinyl Liner pool. Just now the PH =8.2++/Chlorine=Not even 0.5/CYA=20/Alkalinity=10PPM
MY PLAN WAS: Add some Muriatic Acid to the HALF Volume of Water in the Pool now and get the PH down to 6.8 to 7. Add some CYA/Stabilizer to get that up, get the Alkalinity up....and then Hit it with some 73% CalHypo to get it cleaned up at least a bit and heading in right direction. Only then, like maybe 48 hours I'd Start Filling with Water to get the Filter going.

Grateful for all feedback!

 

[Bperry]

I was forced to leave my home due to family emergency and returned to a mess of pool (a 2 week trip, turned into 11+ weeks). While I was gone, the Motor Failed, so there was no filtering for 2+ weeks. Then my volunteer/attendant struggled to get it sorted and obviously let it get worse, said it was getting green. And then, in process of trying to get that sorted, he somehow left the valve on Waste just after Christmas & pumped out half the pool water. End result is I got home 8 days ago to a Half Full Monster Green Swamp. Then, we had a 9 inch Snow Storm w 17F nights, so I've done nothing till today.
And as I was about ready to begin Filling Up the Pool, I had a "Bright idea": Maybe it's better to Treat the Half Pool/Volume of Water before I fill the Pool up all the way? That way the existing water would be at least a bit better than sludge, before I started mixing in all the new clear water. So I went and got some Acid to put in, but I stopped and decided to check with all the TFP Experts to see if anyone can point me in a better direction.

STATUS NOW: It's a 29.5K Gallon Vinyl Liner pool. Just now the PH =8.2++/Chlorine=Not even 0.5/CYA=20/Alkalinity=10PPM
MY PLAN WAS: Add some Muriatic Acid to the HALF Volume of Water in the Pool now and get the PH down to 6.8 to 7. Add some CYA/Stabilizer to get that up, get the Alkalinity up....and then Hit it with some 73% CalHypo to get it cleaned up at least a bit and heading in right direction. Only then, like maybe 48 hours I'd Start Filling with Water to get the Filter going.

Grateful for all feedback!

How are you testing the water? It doesn’t sound like it’s possible to have a pH and TA with those values at the same time. Chlorine would be way more important than the pH assuming it’s accurate.

 

[sande005]

In general terms, it would be far better to get the CL up to SLAM level before you add stabilizer - it will take a good bit less. And since the green mess will eat the CL pretty fast, you'll have to be adding larger quantities very frequently (likely every few hours!) BUT:
Unknown is your pool construction or ground conditions. Keeping pools very low with water can be very detrimental to the structure of the pool, depending. Let us know what yours is - vinyl, plaster, tile, etc.
Also unknown is your actual current gallonage. Adding something now will be the equivalent of "dump and pray".

For both reasons, therefore, it will be better to just fill up with fresh first, so you can get all the equipment running.

The SLAM process can be long, especially if really green. IF you can find supplies of liquid chlorine, that will be much more cost effective. The CalHypo introduces it's own issues by increasing your CH levels fairly quickly. I've tasted S. Alabama tap water - and the last thing it needs is more CH added....

Testing will be very frequent (several times a day to start). As asked, what are you using to test your water now? Having a GOOD test kit will be imperative.

 

[Newdude]

You need circulation to test, or to mix after adding. Use a submersible pump until you decide to refill.

Never adjust anything without a well mixed test.

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

In general terms, it would be far better to get the CL up to SLAM level before you add stabilizer - it will take a good bit less. And since the green mess will eat the CL pretty fast, you'll have to be adding larger quantities very frequently (likely every few hours!) BUT:
Unknown is your pool construction or ground conditions. Keeping pools very low with water can be very detrimental to the structure of the pool, depending. Let us know what yours is - vinyl, plaster, tile, etc.
Also unknown is your actual current gallonage. Adding something now will be the equivalent of "dump and pray".

For both reasons, therefore, it will be better to just fill up with fresh first, so you can get all the equipment running.

The SLAM process can be long, especially if really green. IF you can find supplies of liquid chlorine, that will be much more cost effective. The CalHypo introduces it's own issues by increasing your CH levels fairly quickly. I've tasted S. Alabama tap water - and the last thing it needs is more CH added....

Testing will be very frequent (several times a day to start). As asked, what are you using to test your water now? Having a GOOD test kit will be imperative.

Thanks for Info. As far as Pool Gallons, as I mentioned at Status now - "It's a 29.5K Gallon Vinyl Liner pool." And I the construction is ok as far as even empty pool. It has been empty before with no problems but I wouldn't want to do it as general rule. So I am pretty confident about being able to pump it all out.
Just to clarify my situation on CalHyp: I actually get 100LBS of CalHypo for less than $270 (yes, that's correct). So I have never used Liquid, which seems to be priced like gold. Also I have yet in 60 years(30 with pools) used it so reluctant to change. And it's never caused problems for me, never had Calcium build up here, nut I know many people do. But I am listening to your advice and so will try to find some at decent price!
Also, I have never before had problems with big swings in any Chems really. EXCEPT, last year. First time ever it took a long bit to get it Opened up and never figured why!

But I hear you=it may be best to Start Over, and as you say, our water is Pretty good and it works well out of the Hose.
Thanks again!

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

You need circulation to test, or to mix after adding. Use a submersible pump until you decide to refill.

Never adjust anything without a well mixed test.

LOL....thank you. And that makes total sense=Testing is useless now! However, I just want to be sure I understand your other comments, so if you can:

(1) "or to mix after adding" I think you meant if I add Chems like the Acid as I said I was planning to do (perhaps), I should of course first Dilute them and I must keep it moving after....so Step 2
(2) Use a Submersible Pump..I think you mean I can buy a pump and keep the output end in the water, and then keep it pumping to allow water to move about in it's current state? And Brush it move it around if needed too???
Is that correct??

Also, what is your instinct - pump it all out and start over, or...try like I said I has thought about?

Just checking...thanks for your help and advice!

 

[PoolStored]

Use liquid chlorine. Available at your Walmart Supercenter in Mobile. There is also a Pinch a Penny at 8600 Cottage Hill Road. Both will have about the best prices.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pool-Essentials-Chlorinating-Liquid/48938023 Walmart Liquid Chlorine

You need to circulate for at least 30 minutes before you test. You need to be able to circulate during and after you add chemicals. Here is how to add them:

Recommended Pool Chemicals

Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, the suggestion is, if you are not going to fill the pool and use the pump, put a sump in to circulate water.

However, I would recommend that you fill the pool, skim all the large debris out, and SLAM. Even if you kill everything, you still need to be able to filter out all the dead algae, which you can't do 1/2 full.

You indicated that you have emptied the pool before. We don't recommend draining, for a number of reasons. You might find luck with a "No Drain Water Exchange" here:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Can you post a picture of the pool water as it is now?

 

[Newdude]

or to mix after adding" I think you meant if I add Chems like the Acid

1) mix well for reliable testing. The water stratifies when the pump is off, especially if it's rained. The longer it goes, the worse it gets.

2) any added chemicals need to be well mixed after. FC / PH / TA are 15 mins with good circulation, maybe 30 with less than ideal circulation like a submersible pump.

CH, CYA and salt can take a day or two.

Use a Submersible Pump..I think you mean I can buy a pump and keep the output end in the water, and then keep it pumping to allow water to move about in it's current state? And Brush it move it around if needed too???

Exactly. I like This one from amazon. You can use a garden hose at reduced flow, or cut the adapter to fit a 1 inch or 1.5 inch hose for great flow. It gets pretty boring waiting for a slow pump.

Me and poolstored like sinking it in the deep end a 5 gallon bucket to help protect the liner. Then toss the hose in the shallow end to mix.

Also, what is your instinct - pump it all out and start over

You've had success before but liner pools need 12 to 18 inches in the shallow end or the liner risks shifting. They rarely go back right if they move. Take your previous win and #neveragain.

After mixing what you have, I'd start slam accordingly per the testing. Remember to only add half (?) the liquid chlorine for the lower pool to get to slam at your current CYA level. It'll get a jump start as it fills, then full slam ahead once the pump is live.

Or if water is dirt cheap and you have a clear path for drainage, you can 'no drain exchange' listed in the link above before refilling. You'll definitely waste some new water, but you also remove some old water for less remaining upon filling. SLAM the residual old water once full.

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

Use liquid chlorine. Available at your Walmart Supercenter in Mobile. There is also a Pinch a Penny at 8600 Cottage Hill Road. Both will have about the best prices.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pool-Essentials-Chlorinating-Liquid/48938023 Walmart Liquid Chlorine

You need to circulate for at least 30 minutes before you test. You need to be able to circulate during and after you add chemicals. Here is how to add them:

Recommended Pool Chemicals

Which should I buy? TFP's recommended pool chemicals are cheap, easy, and won't unbalance your pool water.

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, the suggestion is, if you are not going to fill the pool and use the pump, put a sump in to circulate water.

However, I would recommend that you fill the pool, skim all the large debris out, and SLAM. Even if you kill everything, you still need to be able to filter out all the dead algae, which you can't do 1/2 full.

You indicated that you have emptied the pool before. We don't recommend draining, for a number of reasons. You might find luck with a "No Drain Water Exchange" here:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Can you post a picture of the pool water as it is now?

First, here is photo of water. And my main issue was whether to try to treat the pool somewhat now, before adding clear water. I think it's clear that is not best, as for that tarp/water exchange, it looks like a challenge. And I hear you, so it's time to Fill it up and get it circulating.
On the Liquid: Can you help me with the benefits of 'use liquid'?. And are you saying I should use Liquid for the Clean up and SLAM processes? Or suggesting permanent change to Liquid? Also, as a newbie to Liquid-would I need dozens of Gallons of Liquid for a 29.5K to get ready to SLAM it or just 10 or 15. Sorry, but sadly, it's both new to me & I have to think about the costs=on very tight budget just now.

Reading about Liquid it appears most of the benefits are 1- It's Cheaper (not always), 2-No Calcium Build Up and 3-Ease of Use. Is the Liquid supposed to be Quick Acting too?

PS: I guess u can tell, I had hoped to use the 90lbs of CalHypo I have already but if it's gonna mess something up I'll wait till I 15th of Feb after I get a bit more free cash.

Thank you much PoolStored!

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

How are you testing the water? It doesn’t sound like it’s possible to have a pH and TA with those values at the same time. Chlorine would be way more important than the pH assuming it’s accurate.

I used a HTH 6 way that time. But I think sample was bad as I going down 2 steps and got a skim off top. I was SURPRISED too at results, but put them as they were. I will test again after I gets some leaves out and mix the water....and test from the deep end next time! But I'll have to get a bucket and drop in to get to it! Thanks

 

[PoolStored]

You can SLAM that pool. However, you CANNOT SLAM SAFELY, without a proper test kit. Here are the recommended kits. Link-->Test Kits Compared
The HTH 6 way will be fine for CYA and pH. If you don't get a proper kit, AT A MINIMUM, you need to get these two items to measure FC and SLAM Safely.

SLAM Option

tftestkits.net

Taylor 9198 Calibrated Cylinder

tftestkits.net

On the Liquid: Can you help me with the benefits of 'use liquid'?. And are you saying I should use Liquid for the Clean up and SLAM processes? Or suggesting permanent change to Liquid? Also, as a newbie to Liquid-would I need dozens of Gallons of Liquid for a 29.5K to get ready to SLAM it or just 10 or 15. Sorry, but sadly, it's both new to me & I have to think about the costs=on very tight budget just now.

That is pretty green, but the temps are pretty cold. When cold, the SLAM goes faster and uses less liquid. Will cost less doing it now. I'd start with 15 gallons, you can always take it back. Ask me how I know.

Reading about Liquid it appears most of the benefits are 1- It's Cheaper (not always), 2-No Calcium Build Up and 3-Ease of Use. Is the Liquid supposed to be Quick Acting too?

Yes to 1 2 and 3. The all act the same once dissolved. Oh, and it does not add CYA (using trichlor).

PS: I guess u can tell, I had hoped to use the 90lbs of CalHypo I have already but if it's gonna mess something up I'll wait till I 15th of Feb after I get a bit more free cash.

Liquid is the best. 90 lbs of Cal Hypo will give you 240 FC and 169 of CH. Have you been using this product exclusively? Would really like to know your CH from a good test kit. High levels of CH can be problematic, even in a liner pool. Like to know your CH before making a recommendation.

 

[Bperry]

I used a HTH 6 way that time. But I think sample was bad as I going down 2 steps and got a skim off top. I was SURPRISED too at results, but put them as they were. I will test again after I gets some leaves out and mix the water....and test from the deep end next time! But I'll have to get a bucket and drop in to get to it! Thanks

It’s for sure bad results. You really need a better test kit to manage the pool.

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

1) mix well for reliable testing. The water stratifies when the pump is off, especially if it's rained. The longer it goes, the worse it gets.

2) any added chemicals need to be well mixed after. FC / PH / TA are 15 mins with good circulation, maybe 30 with less than ideal circulation like a submersible pump.

CH, CYA and salt can take a day or two.



Exactly. I like This

1) mix well for reliable testing. The water stratifies when the pump is off, especially if it's rained. The longer it goes, the worse it gets.

2) any added chemicals need to be well mixed after. FC / PH / TA are 15 mins with good circulation, maybe 30 with less than ideal circulation like a submersible pump.

CH, CYA and salt can take a day or two.



Exactly. I like This one from amazon. You can use a garden hose at reduced flow, or cut the adapter to fit a 1 inch or 1.5 inch hose for great flow. It gets pretty boring waiting for a slow pump.

Me and poolstored like sinking it in the deep end a 5 gallon bucket to help protect the liner. Then toss the hose in the shallow end to mix.

You've had success before but liner pools need 12 to 18 inches in the shallow end or the liner risks shifting. They rarely go back right if they move. Take your previous win and #neveragain.

After mixing what you have, I'd start slam accordingly per the testing. Remember to only add half (?) the liquid chlorine for the lower pool to get to slam at your current CYA level. It'll get a jump start as it fills, then full slam ahead once the pump is live.

Or if water is dirt cheap and you have a clear path for drainage, you can 'no drain exchange' listed in the link above before refilling. You'll definitely waste some new water, but you also remove some old water for less remaining upon filling. SLAM the residual old water once full.

one from amazon. You can use a garden hose at reduced flow, or cut the adapter to fit a 1 inch or 1.5 inch hose for great flow. It gets pretty boring waiting for a slow pump.

Me and poolstored like sinking it in the deep end a 5 gallon bucket to help protect the liner. Then toss the hose in the shallow end to mix.

You've had success before but liner pools need 12 to 18 inches in the shallow end or the liner risks shifting. They rarely go back right if they move. Take your previous win and #neveragain.

After mixing what you have, I'd start slam accordingly per the testing. Remember to only add half (?) the liquid chlorine for the lower pool to get to slam at your current CYA level. It'll get a jump start as it fills, then full slam ahead once the pump is live.

Or if water is dirt cheap and you have a clear path for drainage, you can 'no drain exchange' listed in the link above before refilling. You'll definitely waste some new water, but you also remove some old water for less remaining upon filling. SLAM the residual old water once full.

PS...right now, I do still have enough water in shallow end so I not worried there and looks like everyone agreeing -ideally never empty it. Which is fine with me. Also the water is pretty Dirt Cheap here or about as good as it gets, and drainage is direct to storm gutter. For H2O I have separate line put in to fill pool (so not connected to house line=so no added Sewage Costs on each gallon for my pool water). I just looked it up at $3.94 per 1000 gallons so I can fill pool up for $120USD. Not bad....that is why I considered starting over.
I'm going to try what you say..." It'll get a jump start as it fills, then full slam ahead once the pump is live."
Now just trying to figure out why everyone suggest I use Liquid Chlorine instead of the 90 lbs of CalHypo I have sitting here with me (I'm between jobs and don't want to Buy anything I don't absolutely have to)!

 

[PoolStored]

Now just trying to figure out why everyone suggest I use Liquid Chlorine instead of the 90 lbs of CalHypo I have sitting here with me (I'm between jobs and don't want to Buy anything I don't absolutely have to)!

Because we don't know your CH level in the water. If you have been consistently using CalHypo, your CH could be very high, even with refill. If you refill, SLAM, then we determine that your CH is still high, it can cause scale problems, even in a vinyl pool.

You cannot remove CH without replacing water. So, you'd have to drain and replace more water after slam, if you find the CH is high. If you are willing to take that risk (having to refill some water), use the calhypo.

Just know it will raise your CH by about 120-200, depending on the %.

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

It’s for sure bad results. You really need a better test kit to manage the pool.

In general terms, it would be far better to get the CL up to SLAM level before you add stabilizer - it will take a good bit less. And since the green mess will eat the CL pretty fast, you'll have to be adding larger quantities very frequently (likely every few hours!) BUT:
Unknown is your pool construction or ground conditions. Keeping pools very low with water can be very detrimental to the structure of the pool, depending. Let us know what yours is - vinyl, plaster, tile, etc.
Also unknown is your actual current gallonage. Adding something now will be the equivalent of "dump and pray".

For both reasons, therefore, it will be better to just fill up with fresh first, so you can get all the equipment running.

The SLAM process can be long, especially if really green. IF you can find supplies of liquid chlorine, that will be much more cost effective. The CalHypo introduces it's own issues by increasing your CH levels fairly quickly. I've tasted S. Alabama tap water - and the last thing it needs is more CH added....

Testing will be very frequent (several times a day to start). As asked, what are you using to test your water now? Having a GOOD test kit will be imperative.

Thanks Sande! I am getting confused on what I have replied to and to whom I did, but I am taking onboard everything you said. And yes, the Water here is Very Good and the price is not bad either! Honestly, it should be cheap here as we get enough of it most years...sometimes, too much and it floods my Pool with Debris! Thanks for Info. And....what's wrong with my test kit....it's only 6 months old and is a HTH 6 way. I know the TFP is recommended by most, but had no problem with the HTH myself.

 

[PoolStored]

And....what's wrong with my test kit....it's only 6 months old and is a HTH 6 way.

There is nothing "wrong," but it is incomplete. You need to have the FAS/DPD to test FC higher than 5. It doesn't test for CC. That is needed for SLAM.

I was wrong, HTH does have a CH test (HTH calls it Total Hardness). Can you test CH and report that number?

 

[ajw22]

I was wrong, HTH does have a CH test (HTH calls it Total Hardness). Can you test CH and report that number?

Total hardness vs calcium hardness

I have a HTH 6 way test kit from walmart. It tests total hardness. I always assumed that this was the same as calcium hardness, but i may be wrong. I do not have a calcium hardness only test, so i was wondering how much different the two can be and if there is a rule of thumb (like calcium...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[PoolStored]

Total hardness vs calcium hardness

I have a HTH 6 way test kit from walmart. It tests total hardness. I always assumed that this was the same as calcium hardness, but i may be wrong. I do not have a calcium hardness only test, so i was wondering how much different the two can be and if there is a rule of thumb (like calcium...

www.troublefreepool.com

Thanks...OP needs a good test kit.
For now the 2/3rds rule for purposes of the use of CalHypo the OP has...

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

You can SLAM that pool. However, you CANNOT SLAM SAFELY, without a proper test kit. Here are the recommended kits. Link-->Test Kits Compared
The HTH 6 way will be fine for CYA and pH. If you don't get a proper kit, AT A MINIMUM, you need to get these two items to measure FC and SLAM Safely.

SLAM Option

tftestkits.net

Taylor 9198 Calibrated Cylinder

tftestkits.net

That is pretty green, but the temps are pretty cold. When cold, the SLAM goes faster and uses less liquid. Will cost less doing it now. I'd start with 15 gallons, you can always take it back. Ask me how I know.


Yes to 1 2 and 3. The all act the same once dissolved. Oh, and it does not add CYA (using trichlor).

Liquid is the best. 90 lbs of Cal Hypo will give you 240 FC and 169 of CH. Have you been using this product exclusively? Would really like to know your CH from a good test kit. High levels of CH can be problematic, even in a liner pool. Like to know your CH before making a recommendation.

Yeah....it's been REALLY Cold and I had 9 inches of snow w ice forming on shallow end (that has" never happened here). And yes..I already know 'why U know' I can take it back - LOL!! Also I wasn't planning on dumping the whole 90lbs in (confused by that)....so...u didn't mean to put ALL 90 LBS in ALL at ONCE I hope (got a story there about my sister dropping in a 100lb bucket in Poo -do NOT try that)! But yes, I have used CalHypo, then CYA as needed.

Seriously, will get some Tests and revert and noted on the SLAM Safely kit.

PS: Trying one more time: Why is "Liquid is best'? It appears it all just comes down to potential for CH increase.

 

[SouthernAlaPool]

And....what's wrong with my test kit....it's only 6 months old and is a HTH 6 way.

There is nothing "wrong," but it is incomplete. You need to have the FAS/DPD to test FC higher than 5. It doesn't test for CC. That is needed for SLAM.

I was wrong, HTH does have a CH test (HTH calls it Total Hardness). Can you test CH and report that number?

Yes, I will get it tomorrow though as I'm not there just now and have to dig up a bucket and rope to get a good sample from the deep end (I can use my arm or even a Pick Up tool to reach down the water just now). Thanks ur great help!!