Added Defender but still not bonded

[meatyor]

Was the voltage test done with the whole house shut off, or just that circuit? You may have circuits sharing a neutral. You could be bleeding through the neutral/ground bar of the main breaker instead of the hot leg.

Whole house off would also confirm external vs. house circuits as the source.

I’ve hit the breaker for the whole house once before, went out and tested again, was still present… not even sure that would mean at this point. I mean oddly enough, just stepping outback toward the pool, my voltmeter reads voltage in the air. Step out front and the voltmeter reads zero.

 

[Jimrahbe]

but you are saying plate to the side rail/edge?

meat,

You don't want to "ground" the pool water, you want it to be connected to the bonding..

Connecting the metal plate to the rail should stop you from feeling a shock between the two.. And if the rail is bonded, then with metal plate in the water, you should not feel the shock anywhere..

This does not fix the problem, but tells you what you need to do to fix the issue.

I've been told in the past, then these kind of problems are almost always from some electrical company issue, like a leaking high voltage transformer..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[meatyor]

what do you mean by “ring out”? Did someone actually attach trace equipment to the bond wire and mark the path of the wire? There are tools that allow you to follow a trace wire, in this case the bonding wire, to see where it starts and ends. If it is electrically connected to anything metallic, the trace will detect the signal. If the line is broken, then the trace will not pick up a signal. You can then tell what is connected and what is not connected to the bond wire.

It sounds like a new liner was installed and they simply did not cut the liner for the light. I bet the light niche is sitting behind your current liner. Sometimes when a light niche has a leak, owners opt to simply not have the light cut into the new liner.

Had the old light wiring been completely removed so there is no accidental power to ground? If the light was abandoned, then all the wiring at the junction box should have been disconnected.

That’s very interesting theory, that there is an active or hot light box behind the liner.

I’m new to all this, “ring out” is what all the electricians have been saying when they show me that there is continuity. No one has traced anything, that is something I think I’ll ask about. I’ll have to see how much it would be to buy or rent one.

 

[meatyor]

meat,

You don't want to "ground" the pool water, you want it to be connected to the bonding..

Connecting the metal plate to the rail should stop you from feeling a shock between the two.. And if the rail is bonded, then with metal plate in the water, you should not feel the shock anywhere..

This does not fix the problem, but tells you what you need to do to fix the issue.

I've been told in the past, then these kind of problems are almost always from some electrical company issue, like a leaking high voltage transformer..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks for all the thoughts, Jim. I think I’m going to get back in touch with the electric company and ask they test further.

 

[PoolStored]

I’ve hit the breaker for the whole house once before, went out and tested again, was still present… not even sure that would mean at this point. I mean oddly enough, just stepping outback toward the pool, my voltmeter reads voltage in the air. Step out front and the voltmeter reads zero.

If this is true, then it is a power company issue!!!

hese kind of problems are almost always from some electrical company issue, like a leaking high voltage transformer..

^^^This.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

. No one has traced anything, that is something I think I’ll ask about. I’ll have to see how much it would be to buy or rent one.

Around here I can rent one for about $80 per day. Good ones cost upwards of $700 so you really can’t buy one. The cheap ones on Amazon are junk.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Around here I can rent one for about $80 per day. Good ones cost upwards of $700 so you really can’t buy one. The cheap ones on Amazon are junk.

You can also pay for a utility locator company to do the testing but that will definitely cost you several hundred dollars out of pocket.

 

[meatyor]

Around here I can rent one for about $80 per day. Good ones cost upwards of $700 so you really can’t buy one. The cheap ones on Amazon are junk.

Thanks for all the help and thoughts, JoyfulNoise

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

Most pool water is bonded by a plate inside the light niche. Anyone screw with the light lately?

Is this a new problem?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hey Jim, one more question, for another big idea. You got me thinking about the lights, so I dug through some of the documents left behind, and found the liner was replaced in 2018, while the original pool looks to have had lights, I’m assuming they were bonded.

I guess my question, do to think it’s cost effective to see if a company could locate the original light boxes and reinstall through the existing liner, hopefully re-bonding the water? And do you think it would be able to be done without fully draining the pool?

To be fair, I understand this is a shot in the dark.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Meat,

I don't know the answer to your question..

That said, the bonding is done by the light housing and not the light itself.

I guess the answer would depend on how they abandoned the original light.

Since I have no experience with liner pools, I'm not sure what can be done after the fact.

Sorry,

Jim R.

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

I don't know the answer to your question..

That said, the bonding is done by the light housing and not the light itself.

I guess the answer would depend on how they abandoned the original light.

Since I have no experience with liner pools, I'm not sure what can be done after the fact.

Sorry,

Jim R.

All good, thanks again!

 

[meatyor]

I have a long story about my water not being bonded, which I'll try to keep short. We just bought a house with a pool, the liner was replaced in 2018 (the company is no longer in business). I believe when they replaced the liner that they decided not to keep the lights that I see in an original drawing of the pool which was built in 2000. This is the crazy part: Our pool has electrical current in it, and l've been told by an electrical engineer that our water isn't bonded. As I understand it, the majority of inground pool's water is bonded through the lighting fixture(s). Since our lights were seemingly removed, l'd like to think that that is why our water isn't bonded, and that if we were to add them back in, it would bond the water.


Q: Does anyone know if you can install lights into an existing vinyl, do you need to redo all the vinyl? Do you have to drain the whole pool (28k gallons), or just a portion? Is this idea of mine any good, or does it make no sense at all?

 

[ajw22]

Is your objective to light the pool or to create the water bond?

There are other ways yo create the water bond other then install lights.

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[meatyor]

Create the water bond. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[meatyor]

Is your objective to light the pool or to create the water bond?

There are other ways yo create the water bond other then install lights.

Electrical Bonding - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Create the water bond. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I installed this, but it did nothing:

 

[ajw22]

The water in the pipe your defender is on is not continuous to the pool.

Use a water bond that goes in the skimmer.

 

[meatyor]

I’m assuming that’s a bigger project, which would be fine, though I would then have to tear up the concrete around the skimmer to access and install correctly?

Sorry if these questions seem ridiculous, I’m new to this and was unknowingly handed a complex problem.

 

[ajw22]

Whatever you do is going to be more complicated then just sticking something in a pipe.

You have to be creative in how you get the water bonded.

The water bond requires 9 square inches of metal in contact with the pool water and an 8 gauge solid copper wire connecting it to your bonding grid.

Your challenge is how you get from the grass area around the pool under the concrete to connect to the water bond. That could be sawing a channel in the concrete and running the wire in the channel. Or maybe you can burrow under the concrete to the skimmer.

 

[meatyor]

Whatever you do is going to be more complicated then just sticking something in a pipe.

You have to be creative in how you get the water bonded.

The water bond requires 9 square inches of metal in contact with the pool water and an 8 gauge solid copper wire connecting it to your bonding grid.

Your challenge is how you get from the grass area around the pool under the concrete to connect to the water bond. That could be sawing a channel in the concrete and running the wire in the channel. Or maybe you can burrow under the concrete to the skimmer.

I should hire someone, but so many seem to not want to get involved. Sounds like I’ll be renting a concrete saw, installing a bonding plate in the skimmer, and trying to find that bonding grid wire. The burrowing idea seems interesting! Not sure if I could get away with just cutting out a square, or should I lop off the whole back half?

This should be exciting. Wish me luck!

 

[ajw22]

You only have one skimmer?

Open up the skimmer cover and take a picture looking down at the skimmer.