Added Defender but still not bonded

[meatyor]

Since purchasing this house, and its pool, I’ve learned that the water in this pool is electrically charged. We’ve only been here a month and I’m starting to think I purchased a heck of a project. I’ve talked with many electricians, pool specialists, and an electrical engineer from the power company. I’m afraid the only thing left to do is dig up the concrete and redo the whole bonding grid, but I really hope that is not the case.

The latest way to try and resolve the issue was giving the Pool Defender a chance. I installed it yesterday, but it had no effect on the voltage in the water. Why not? Why wouldn’t this ground the water?

Really interested in getting some help here, please.

 

[Bperry]

Since purchasing this house, and its pool, I’ve learned that the water in this pool is electrically charged. We’ve only been here a month and I’m starting to think I purchased a heck of a project. I’ve talked with many electricians, pool specialists, and an electrical engineer from the power company. I’m afraid the only thing left to do is dig up the concrete and redo the whole bonding grid, but I really hope that is not the case.

The latest way to try and resolve the issue was giving the Pool Defender a chance. I installed it yesterday, but it had no effect on the voltage in the water. Why not? Why wouldn’t this ground the water?

Really interested in getting some help here, please.

Is the pool deck bonded? How are you verifying the issue? (If I missed a thread, let me know)

 

[meatyor]

Everyone (multiple electricians and pool companies) says that I have continuity with regard to all my equipment. I “ring out” but I have anywhere from .5 - 3Vs circulating through my water. The one thing that has worked at zeroing out my water was when the electric company sent an engineer out to investigate for stay voltage, he put a metal sheet in the pool and tied it to a grounding rod he put in the ground, like magic 0.0 Vs. He told me that I needed to bond my water, maybe rebuild the grid in total, or I can find something that can go in line to bond my water. After some research, I found the above pool defender, and thought my problems would finally be solved. Added it in line, ran the #8 copper wire to another bonding line, brushed the surface to get clean metal on metal, got out the voltmeter, and… nothing, still reading +2 volts. I feel like I must be missing something simple. I really don’t want to spend all the money to rebuild the bonding grid.

 

[meatyor]

Is the pool deck bonded? How are you verifying the issue? (If I missed a thread, let me know)

To test the issue I touch one end of the voltmeter to the water’s surface and the other end to the side rail. I can also get one hand wet holding the rail, and touch the water with my other hand and get a tingle through my hand.

 

[proavia]

To test the issue I touch one end of the voltmeter to the water’s surface and the other end to the side rail. I can also get one hand wet holding the rail, and touch the water with my other hand and get a tingle through my hand.

Sounds like the side rail isn't properly attached to the bonding grid.
Have you checked continuity between railing and copper bonding wire at pad?
Anywhere else around the deck with a voltage difference?

The bonding grid isn't supposed to be attached to a ground rod at any point.
And true ground wire (not bonding wire) at the equipment pad will have continuity with the main house panel ground and any ground rod attach via the main house panel.

 

[meatyor]

Sounds like the side rail isn't properly attached to the bonding grid.
Have you checked continuity between railing and copper bonding wire at pad?
Anywhere else around the deck with a voltage difference?

It’s odd because the electricians “ring out” on each metal piece of equipment.

I should try and reconfirm the rail is bonded, though many more electrically intelligent folks have said it is.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Meat,

The basic idea of bonding is not to make any stray voltage in the pool go to zero, it is to make anything that you can touch when in and near the pool be the same voltage.

I also suspect that your rail is not bonded, but maybe grounded..

Do you have the problem at any place other than the railing? Does the same thing happen at your in-pool ladder, or when standing on the deck and touching the water??

Thank,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Meat,

Most pool water is bonded by a plate inside the light niche. Anyone screw with the light lately?

Is this a new problem?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

Most pool water is bonded by a plate inside the light niche. Anyone screw with the light lately?

Is this a new problem?

Thanks,

Jim R.

We don’t have a light actually, that’s why I’m thinking the water is not bonded at all.

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

The basic idea of bonding is not to make any stray voltage in the pool go to zero, it is to make anything that you can touch when in and near the pool be the same voltage.

I also suspect that your rail is not bonded, but maybe grounded..

Do you have the problem at any place other than the railing? Does the same thing happen at your in-pool ladder, or when standing on the deck and touching the water??

Thank,

Jim R.

Anywhere that I can touch water, I can get voltage.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Meat,

If this were my pool, as a test, I'd take a 6" square piece of thin metal and just stick it in the pool. Use an old car jumper cable and connect one end to the plate and the other end to the new railing and see if that fixes the problem..

Obviously, you can't leave it that way, but it should get you pointed in the right direction.. As to what needs to be done.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Anywhere that I can touch water, I can get voltage.

Meat,

When you test between the water and what else???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

When you test between the water and what else???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Water and ladder, water and hand rail, water and side rail.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Do you have any details on the construction of this pool or if it was renovated recently? Liner changed? Deck added?

What you’re describing is a pool full of water that has no bonding to anything.

Can you locate a bonding wire at the equipment pad? There are tracing tools you can buy or maybe rent that will allow you to find buried wires.

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

If this were my pool, as a test, I'd take a 6" square piece of thin metal and just stick it in the pool. Use an old car jumper cable and connect one end to the plate and the other end to the new railing and see if that fixes the problem..

Obviously, you can't leave it that way, but it should get you pointed in the right direction.. As to what needs to be done.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I had an electrical engineer do something like this. He connected a metal sheet and a temporary ground rod that he installed for the test and the water dropped to 0 Vs.

But you are saying plate to the side rail/edge?

 

[meatyor]

Do you have any details on the construction of this pool or if it was renovated recently? Liner changed? Deck added?

What you’re describing is a pool full of water that has no bonding to anything.

Can you locate a bonding wire at the equipment pad? There are tracing tools you can buy or maybe rent that will allow you to find buried wires.

I can’t tell you specifically if the pool was renovated or not. The former owner left the build plans in a file for me, and the pool was installed in 2000. I see information in the files regarding installation of a pool light, but, the pool as it sits today does not have a light. My assumptions start here, and would be that it was renovated at some point, and had the light removed, subsequently breaking the bond on the water. Again, the last half of that is just a personal theory.

As for bonding wires, yes, they are at the equipment pad, and they ring out. I’m not too sure that proves that the grid around the whole pool is still continuous, because there are a lot interconnected bonding wires and clamps that would provide the simple continuity needed to ring out.

 

[meatyor]

Sounds like the side rail isn't properly attached to the bonding grid.
Have you checked continuity between railing and copper bonding wire at pad?
Anywhere else around the deck with a voltage difference?

The bonding grid isn't supposed to be attached to a ground rod at any point.
And true ground wire (not bonding wire) at the equipment pad will have continuity with the main house panel ground and any ground rod attach via the main house panel.

So, it didn’t have a ground rod, but an electrician that came out added one, and connected the bonding grid to it to see if it would help. It didn’t change a thing besides besides my wallet.

 

[PoolStored]

Was the voltage test done with the whole house shut off, or just that circuit? You may have circuits sharing a neutral. You could be bleeding through the neutral/ground bar of the main breaker instead of the hot leg.

Whole house off would also confirm external vs. house circuits as the source.

 

[meatyor]

Meat,

If this were my pool, as a test, I'd take a 6" square piece of thin metal and just stick it in the pool. Use an old car jumper cable and connect one end to the plate and the other end to the new railing and see if that fixes the problem..

Obviously, you can't leave it that way, but it should get you pointed in the right direction.. As to what needs to be done.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I tried this just now. Metal sheet > jumper cables > rail, ladder, and directly to the bonding wires at the equipment pad, but water was still charged, and had a higher reading the closer I was to the pan.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I can’t tell you specifically if the pool was renovated or not. The former owner left the build plans in a file for me, and the pool was installed in 2000. I see information in the files regarding installation of a pool light, but, the pool as it sits today does not have a light. My assumptions start here, and would be that it was renovated at some point, and had the light removed, subsequently breaking the bond on the water. Again, the last half of that is just a personal theory.

As for bonding wires, yes, they are at the equipment pad, and they ring out. I’m not too sure that proves that the grid around the whole pool is still continuous, because there are a lot interconnected bonding wires and clamps that would provide the simple continuity needed to ring out.

what do you mean by “ring out”? Did someone actually attach trace equipment to the bond wire and mark the path of the wire? There are tools that allow you to follow a trace wire, in this case the bonding wire, to see where it starts and ends. If it is electrically connected to anything metallic, the trace will detect the signal. If the line is broken, then the trace will not pick up a signal. You can then tell what is connected and what is not connected to the bond wire.

It sounds like a new liner was installed and they simply did not cut the liner for the light. I bet the light niche is sitting behind your current liner. Sometimes when a light niche has a leak, owners opt to simply not have the light cut into the new liner.

Had the old light wiring been completely removed so there is no accidental power to ground? If the light was abandoned, then all the wiring at the junction box should have been disconnected.