Dark swampy green pool TF-100 reagent test

[plnewb]

WILL-DO: Post summary of readings here

Apologies for the verbose post - once I understand more, I will update the WILL-DO portion above with a, b, c below

These are readings from my aunt's pool last week, I didn't get around to posting until today.
I took the water sample around 7 - 7:30AM before dropping the kids off and heading to the office. I did the tests likely between 9:30 - 10AM, so 3 hours after taking the sample.

The sample was stored in a screw on brand new plastic canister all this time and smelled of Chlorine (or is that Chloramines?).

The first test I did was the FC, CC test.

With a 10ml water sample (taken a foot below the top of the surface), I added R-0870 and it turned pink

1. My R-0870 is very clumped up and I tried to crush the clumps using the scoop but that didn't seem to work - adding it to the sample did dissolve 80% of it but 20% of it remained undissolved - is this something to worry about?

I added one drop of R-0871 and it cleared immediately.

2. This means FC = 0.5 (or less)?

Then added 5 drops of R-003 and it turned pink on the 4th and 5th drop. I added one drop of R-0871 and it cleared immediately, again.

3. This means CC = 0.5 (or less)?
4. This means TC = FC + CC = 1.0 (or less)?

I then proceeded to do the TA. On the 5th drop of R-009, the green immediately turned dark pink (compared to the pink in the FC, CC test but not red - is this something to worry about?)

5. This means TA = 50 (or less)?

Last was the CYA test - the red capped CYA bottle did turn cloudy but the black dot was always visible from the top even after I filled up the tube completely.

6. This means the pool has very little CYA?
7. But it's not 0 CYA because it did turn cloudy while a 0 CYA sample would never turn cloudy at all?

Given all of the above, is it correct to say:

a. TC = FC + CC = 0.5 (or less) + 0.5 (or less) = 1.0 (or less)
b. TA = 50 (or less)
c. Non measurable CYA

To refresh your memory, this pool is dark swampy green (like this Featured - Pool green and provides no visibility 7" below surface) and feels like it's starting to smell like the beach (I've been adding 1Gal of LC every day in the evening on my way back from work). The DE Filter is currently bypassed and pump runs 12 hours every day building a 14PSI pressure in the system.

I am planning to visit my aunt again on Sunday and can take readings again.

 

[plnewb]

As I start doing tests and taking corrective actions on the dark green swampy pool, I wonder whether it make sense for me to OCLT with a dark green swampy pool?

1. My argument is that the algae is going to eat up the Chlorine anyways and I'm just wasting my reagents
2. Only once the dark green swampy pool turns clear, do I do the OCLT

 

[ajw22]

No, it is obvious you have algae and need to follow the SLAM Process

Do the OCLT when you think you meet the three exit criteria for the SLAM Process.

 

[Jimrahbe]

p,

If you can see the algae, then you should go right into a SLAM..

You have to do an OCLT as part of the three tests you need to pass before you can end a SLAM...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[plnewb]

I am using the Taylor reagents via TF-100 for FAS-DPD test to obtain my TC, CC and FC readings

1. Wondering whether TA and pH affect these?
2. For example, should I add some HCl before doing the FAS-DPD test to obtain my TC, CC and FC readings?
3. I'm now curious - if I added 2ppm HCl to the sample on which I will carry out the FAS-DPD test, will it yield different results than if I had not added the HCl?

 

[ajw22]

I am using the Taylor reagents via TF-100 for FAS-DPD test to obtain my TC, CC and FC readings

1. Wondering whether TA and pH affect these?
2. For example, should I add some HCl before doing the FAS-DPD test to obtain my TC, CC and FC readings?
3. I'm now curious - if I added 2ppm HCl to the sample on which I will carry out the FAS-DPD test, will it yield different results than if I had not added the HCl?

No, no & no.

And you don't measure HCl in ppm.

What are you trying to do?

 

[proavia]

Extended Test Kit Directions Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

Post a full set of current test results from your TF-100

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water Temperature

Given you say it's a "deep green swamp", you will need to follow the SLAM Process

 

[plnewb]

NOTE: The 3 posts above were merged in from another of my thread. The downside of this merging action is now people think my very first post was answered - to be clear, it's not yet.

Just adding clarity for readers who might be confused what's going on and could stop people from trying to answer

 

[plnewb]

Post a full set of current test results from your TF-100

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA
Water Temperature

This is my first time and I don't know enough to be able to post these numbers. I did, in details post the TF-100 tests I did and the numbers I obtained (which are unfortunately unclear to me to turn into the table above) here:

Dark swampy green pool TF-100 reagent test

WILL-DO: Post summary of readings here Apologies for the verbose post - once I understand more, I will update the WILL-DO portion above with a, b, c below These are readings from my aunt's pool last week, I didn't get around to posting until today. I took the water sample around 7 - 7:30AM...

www.troublefreepool.com

If someone is kind enough to read my post and walk me though it, I can get started on turning my observations into the table above

 

[ajw22]

Keep all of your questions and discussion about your Aunts pool in one thread. Making a separate thread for every question you have makes it difficult for us to understand what is going on.

And it wastes all of our time to have mutiple discussion going on in different threads.

 

[ajw22]

You are saying...

FC - 0.5
CC - 0.5
pH - ???
TA - 50
CH - ???
CYA - 0

Ok, not surprising you have algae.

Follow the SLAM Process

Get the CYA to 30ppm, ph 7.2-7.4, and raise and maintain FC to 12.

 

[ajw22]

Adding 1 gallon of 10% liquid chlorine to your Aunts 21,000 gallon pool raises FC by 4.8ppm.

Adding 4.8ppm of LC into a swamp with no CYA will not make a dent in the algae. The suns daily UV will consume most of it.

And you have to run the pump 24/7 to keep the water circulating during the SLAM Process.

 

[plnewb]

FC - 0.5
CC - 0.5
pH - ???
TA - 50
CH - ???
CYA - 0

OK, I now understand how to make the table but did my process of arriving at FC and CC make sense?

Get the CYA to 30ppm, ph 7.2-7.4, and raise and maintain FC to 12.

This is where I am confused. I am unsure how ph and FC, CC interact (or not). I had created a dedicated thread to handle just that issue but now it's in this thread, so I will attempt to understand that strain of thought before I get back to the larger pool question.

So does ph and FC, CC interact?

For example: If I have a pH of 8 and see that I need to add 2gal of 15% HCl, would that, as a side effect change my FC, CC numbers?

Similarly, given that I have a CYA of 0, and I add some product with CYA, couldn't or wouldn't it affect ph and/or FC, CC?

 

[mknauss]

Effects of Adding in Poolmath provides what effects certain chemical additions make.
If you FC is above 10 ppm, the pH test is invalid.
The pH level does not effect the FC or CC test.
If you add CYA, it will mildly lower pH, but increase TA just a touch. That will then cause the pH to rise. So it is essentially pH neutral.
CYA has no effect on the FC test.

 

[ajw22]

OK, I now understand how to make the table but did my process of arriving at FC and CC make sense?

If that is what your tests found then it is what it is.

This is where I am confused. I am unsure how ph and FC, CC interact (or not). I had created a dedicated thread to handle just that issue but now it's in this thread, so I will attempt to understand that strain of thought before I get back to the larger pool question.

So does ph and FC, CC interact?

Not for testing purposes.

You are asking why you lower the pH before the SLAM process?

Adding a large amount of chlorine temporarily causes a large pH rise. The chlorine added will be more effective when you start from a pH of 7.2-7.6.

For example: If I have a pH of 8 and see that I need to add 2gal of 15% HCl, would that, as a side effect change my FC, CC numbers?

No.

Similarly, given that I have a CYA of 0, and I add some product with CYA, couldn't or wouldn't it affect ph and/or FC, CC?

CYA is a mild acid and will lower pH a bit.

CYA does not change your FC measurement however you need to maintain the correct FC to CYA ratio.

CYA - Further Reading

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Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

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[plnewb]

If you FC is above 10 ppm, the pH test is invalid.

OK, and while I am starting to SLAM does it make sense to do a pH test, or should my sole focus be CYA and FC, CC, TC until I hit CYA to 30ppm, and raise and maintain FC to 12?

The chlorine added will be more effective when you start from a pH of 7.2-7.6

OK, so before I start to SLAM do I take the pH reading, calculate how much HCl I need to add to hit a pH of 7.4, add it, then add LC to hit FC to 12?

Would subsequent pH test be valid at a 12 FC?

 

[ajw22]

OK, so before I start to SLAM do I take the pH reading,

Yes.

calculate how much HCl I need to add to hit a pH of 7.4, add it,

You are assuming the pH will be high.

It could be low.

Take things one step at a time and let the data direct you to your actions.

then add LC to hit FC to 12?

After you confirm the pH is between 7.2-7.4

Would subsequent pH test be valid at a 12 FC?

Once you start the SLAM Process just test FC frequently and CYA weekly.

 

[plnewb]

How important is handling CSI and CH when starting SLAM?

 

[ajw22]

How important is handling CSI and CH when starting SLAM?

No factor. Ignore them.

 

[plnewb]

I will be visiting my aunt tomorrow to take a fresh set of samples and also take pH readings

1. Should I take the pH reading before adding LC?
2. How well does CYA store in 80-90F day weather?
3. I estimate I will need 8lb of CYA to raise my CYA from 0 to 45 (and 5lb of CYA to raise my CYA from 0 to 30) - should I purchase 2 bags of 4lb CYA @$15/bag or 1 bag of 20 lb CYA @$58/bag?

Amazon.com

I ask because I'm unsure how much more CYA I will need beyond the initial 8lb, and whether the additional 12lb is going to be useful