2023 Tampa New Pool Build

[mtrtpa]

Hello all–

My Wife and I are planning to hit the ground running by evaluating and quoting out with some PB’s in January and would appreciate any suggestions on what to come prepared with for the initial quotes.

Below is the current punch list and a very rough sketch on top of the survey plus google map snip.

Size: 18x36 (~12x6 sunshelf with 2 bubblers + Umbrella sleeve, 1 Skimmer + 3-4 returns?)
Depth: 3-6’
Interior Finish: -TBD- Light color pebbletech and/or possibly alternative finish
Deck: at least 6 feet around pool Pavers-TBD- Possibly shellock (Ideally the least slippery and largest format)
Overflow port/drain for the summer pop up storms that drop heavy rain
Equipment: 400K Hayward/Jandy Natural Gas Heater, SWG, DE Cartridge Hybrid?, 3 LED lights
Child Safety Fence with autoclose gate/latch (we have a toddler)
Screen Enclosure 20/20 mesh with extra wide door, add hose bib inside

Some additional background: Grew up with a ~8-9’ deep ~40k Gal. pool in northern ohio, so no stranger to some basic maintenance/old school DE filter cleanouts, skimming loads of helicopters, experienced my father go on converting from bacqua, ozoneators, to chlorine, adding Heater to extend season, etc etc. Needless to say I am excited about the Trouble Free Pool method A new build of a pool is a completely different ballgame and we are researching as best as possible for this large of an investment.

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks for the graphic and general information on your future pool.
Here are some quick thoughts that normally come up in discussions on new builds.

Size: 18x36 (~12x6 sunshelf with 2 bubblers + Umbrella sleeve, 1 Skimmer + 3-4 returns?)

Go with 2 skimmers. You will have a screen cover so maybe not much surface debris, but it is nice to have 2 skimmers and it is a small additional cost but provides a backup to the other skimmer should something occur. You do not mention a main drain and that is not a requirement. Also, each skimmer should be independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.

Sunshelf - depths can vary from 6 in. to 18 in. depending on your need. Your toddler won't be small forever so plan for years of use and not just for the present. 9-12 inches seems to be a favorite for many to allow sitting on a lounge chair with part of your body in the water.

Depth: 3-6’

3ft depth is good only for the first step onto the pool floor. You want to get to 3.5 ft or 4ft for majority of shallow end. 6ft is good max depth. Not deep enough for diving but kids can jump in.

Equipment: 400K Hayward/Jandy Natural Gas Heater, SWG, DE Cartridge Hybrid?, 3 LED lights

Great on 400k NG Heater and SWCG. Ensure you have a good variable speed pump. Cartridge filters are much easier to manage and you are not dealing with DE powder. Also, FL pools tend to have small filters, most likely due to many have screen covers so small filters are used. It would easier in long run have a cartridge filter that is at least 300 sq ft. spec.

You do not mention anything about automation, and it is really more convenience for you since it is just a pool (no spa). But you would have the convenience remoting turning on your heater, lights, setting a schedule for your VS pump and monitoring SWCG. For the latter, the automation system and SWCG have to be from the same mfg. as they do not share intel to operate each other's equipment (the exception is that for example a Jandy Automation system can operate some Pentair VS Pumps but not the Pentair SWCG.) So you need to do some research if you wish to have automation and then, IMO, match the Automation, VS Pump and SWCG from same mfg. for the best capability. Pentair, Jandy and Hayward all make equipment that work on their automation systems.

Have you lights on the near wall to the house so they face away from the patio where you are sitting. Also, as with discussion on automation, you may want to confirm which lights work best with a given automation if you go that way.

Lots of good info in following links

How to Pick a Pool Builder

How to Pick a Pool Builder

How to Select Pool Equipment

How to select pool equipment - Further Reading

Construction Tips & Best Practices

Construction Best Practices - Further Reading

Watering New Gunite & Concrete

Watering New Gunite and Concrete - Further Reading

Pool Start-Up Guidelines

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

 

[kimkats]

Well hello there almost neighbor! @HermanTX has you set up with a good set of links.

Before you sign anything make sure to run it by us so we can make sure you are getting just what you need! Make sure you have the model numbers for all pieces of equipment so we can check sizes and such.

Kim

 

[CoolPool131]

Where’s the Spa? With a gas heater a spa will heat up fast whenever you want to use it.

 

[guinness]

You've done well by joining this site as there are a lot of knowledgeable people here to bounce ideas off. Regarding equipment your PB will likely stick with a single brand as it's likely they get discounts from the manufacturer they work with. Not necessarily a bad thing but something to be aware of.

Another thing to be aware of is that pool LED lights have poor reliability that fail within a few years and are expensive to replace. See the following thread for a discussion.

Need to make a decision on lights, are globrites a bad idea?

Hi! Spent a ton of time with pool builder yesterday and one big decision to make. Was quoted the globrites. Pool builder will put 2 and giving a 3rd for free for a 14x31 rectangle pool, including a 6ft sunshelf. Are the globrites that ones people say break down after a few years? Builder said...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[mtrtpa]

Thanks to everyone so far for the valuable information. We were able to meet with one PB between the holidays. Here is the high level quote received for a slightly scaled down version as I think we'd like to stay as much south of 100k$ as we can. We're thinking more towards 14x30 with a decent bump out sunshelf. Would love some feedback on design change from horizontal to vertical ( trying to still have some yard space for kiddos) as well as Natural Gas Heater vs Heat pump or pointers to prior threads. Hoping to meet with at least two more PBs next week.



@HermanTX It seems most PB here/checking with neighbors that built recently are still including two VGB drains for "quicker water turnover". - all ears on the best course of action there.
@kimkats Will definitely get all model #s I can, this first builder is all Pentair preferred.
@CoolPool131 We'd likely get a separate spa or sauna down the road if we are really missing one, we have neighbors and family that have built-in spas that rarely get used and we'd prefer more swim space.

 

[HermanTX]

@HermanTX It seems most PB here/checking with neighbors that built recently are still including two VGB drains for "quicker water turnover". - all ears on the best course of action there.

Having a main drain is not bad. I have similar size pool with 2 skimmers and a main drain. I still recommend a second skimmer but understand that with a screen enclosure it may not be needed. Be interesting to see what the other 2 PB propose.

I would also get more than 2 returns. Ask the PB where they will place the ones they propose to efficiently circulate the water. I think you need at least one more. I have 5 but I have a free form pool - not a standard rectangle.

PS - don’t get caught up in the “turnover” theory - we can discuss more later but focus on efficiency of your equipment and plumbing design.

I see they propose a 200sq ft filter. I would bump that to the CCP240 or CCP320 model. The larger cartridge will serve you better over the long term. It is slightly more $$.

If you have natural gas stove top and/or gas heat for you home, then I would definitely go with a Natural Gas Pool Heater. It will heat the pool quicker. Get the 400k BTU model. I have a 400kBTU heater and can heat the pool by 15 deg increase over 12 hrs. (for example 70 to 85 deg F) You may not need that amount of increase but to show that 400k BTU works well.

 

[kimkats]

Is the picture showing all of the yard available?

Interesting what some of that stuff they are calling "extra". Engineering fee is "extra"? ummmmmm nope it is necessary. There are a couple of others I would not call extra on that list.

 

[irvingtho]

Welcome. Just finished a pool in the Tampa Bay area this year. It took us 18 months to get water due our scamming PB.

Make sure they spell out the make and model for the Pentair equipment including the lights.

Try to get a completion date listed on the contract if possible. They will have excuses for Covid delays but you would want a duration such as not to exceed 1 year.

 

[okpodo]

Extras indeed. How are engineering fees and environmental impact surcharges not covered under "all plans, permits and applicable taxes"?

 

[TampaKathy]

I agree with HermanTX, larger filter is best. Ask the builder what their payment schedule is and I strongly recommend not signing with anyone that insists on final payment before the pool is done! My pool build started in April 2021, got water in Nov 2021...it's now Jan 2023 and I'm still arguing with the PB about the plaster job...I haven't made final payment so at least there's that. When you are reading reviews online of PB's, I would give a lot more weight to any posts about pool builds in 2021 and 2022 than anything before. My PB had great reviews up until covid and since then the reviews have gone south. And when you start building...measure and review everything...don't assume they'll do simple things like dig the pool deep enough, lol.

 

[mtrtpa]

Been a busy start to the new year but managed to get together with several other PBs and have since probably nixed the one from our previous post as they for some odd reason were reluctant to give out "Exact dimensions" which I thought was crazy.

Here are some pretty 3D's of the design we're leaning toward. Any feedback on the shelf placed in the middle rather than the "L" and also the best option for bench/stair placement? We were debating on separate corner shallow end steps and having the whole shelf in the middle without steps. Main swimming area will be 14 or 15 x30. I've also uploaded the equipment list from the top two PBs thus far for review. One is hayward while other is jandy.









+ Jandy Heater Jxi400n

 

[kimkats]

Would not give out "exact dimensions"?? That is and you needed to run from them just like you did!

Shelf and steps - I like as big a "swim lane" as I can get. The shelf being on the L does that for you. I can assure you most people will be running out your doors and jumping into the pool at that end. The shelf/steps will be used to get out of the pool and relaxing after jumping in. I say keep them right were they are.

Bench on the end. Nope as it will not allow anyone to jump in from that end and it will mess up the swim lane. Here is what I am thinking and have seen done before.................................two benches along the side of the pool. I drew it out for you and will attche it below. See how it has two "steps"? One will be deep enough to sit on and have the water fairly high like just below your shoulders. The second one will the where you can sit on it OR use it as a step to get out of the pool so. You can use pretty tiles to "mark" the benches for visibility.

These are just ideas and the reasons for the ideas. If you don't like them no big deal! You will not hurt my feelings. Just tell me what you are thinking and the whys/ideas you have and we can go from there. Think about how you think you and your family will be using this pool on a day to day bases.

 

[HermanTX]

I am aligned with @kimkats to remove the long bench. The 2 side benches serve the same purpose and create more swimming area.

I am always baffled with regards to Baja shelf. The graphic shows sofa and lounge chairs around the pool and just a bubbler on the Baja shelf. How do you plan to use the Baja shelf? Some like it to put lounge chairs on it. Others have it for small children but then it is only good for a couple of years and the kids are in the big part of the pool. It is an expense and I am not sure the value of it is there for little to no use. Also, there is always the discussion on depth. 6 inches could be too shallow but 18 inches could be too deep. This is just my opinion - take it or leave it - no harm done. My grandkids (all different ages and swimming capability) love the steps and the bench as it allows them all to enjoy it. IMHO.

Equipment - stay with a large cartridge filter - all mfg. make them. No sense to go to a DE filter. Target a 250 to 350 sq ft filter. FL loves small filters (under 200 sq ft) but a larger filter will serve you better in the long term.
Get specific model numbers and post back. The equipment package is as important as the pool itself.

 

[Newdude]

Get specific model numbers and post back. The equipment package is as important as the pool itself

+1. It is hands down the backbone of the operation and critical to an easily maintained pool. But bubblers, waterfalls and fancy lights have all the buzz about them.

Examples :

A large variable speed pump that will pay for itself, possibly a few times over.

A larger filter of any style needs less cleaning. Nothing more nothing less, but removing 2 or 3 cleanings a season sure adds up on a filter that lasts a generation. And it costs peanuts over its lifespan when you think about it.

A salt water chlorine generator which uses a low level of salt in the pool (10% of seawater salinity and nearly undetectable) to generate chlorine. The convenience of rarely needing to source / lug / pay for gallon jugs simply cannot be overstated, and most make out financially in the long run. Mine will pay me back at least twice in its lifespan, *plus* no jug lugging.

Automation to be able to control it all from your phone.

 

[TampaKathy]

Agree with the others on not having the bench all along the back.

 

[mtrtpa]

Small Update - design is pretty much settled, only debate now is if we save some deck/screen cost by shrinking the 7 ft side to 4 ft. Below is the 2D layout with the updated bench, stairs and shelf position. @kimkats used your feedback and some other pictures to move the bench and have the most room for swimming laps. Also decided to move the shelf to the middle as it'll have the most Sun (original L position started to get shaded by the neighbors house a bit past midday.) @HermanTX Kiddos love the shelf, and we've had a few vacation rentals/hotels where us as adults also enjoyed lounging in the shelf. We plan to shoot for at least 9" water depth. Feedback as always appreciated and any ideas for ideal return locations?

At this point we have our top choice for PB but of course it's also the most expensive so we're still requoting with two more based on this design to have some leverage/options/fallback if we really cant get our top choice within reasonable budget. Hoping to pull the trigger by end of January.

 

[kimkats]

I am really liking the new design! You did great listening to us and knowing you house and yard.

Decking-4' on the inside of a cage will be kind of tight for brushing and cleaning the pool. Just something to think about.

 

[setsailsoon]

Nice pool! Is the bench in the deep end to meet egress requirements? I've got a similar issue on my pool design to deal with. Thinking about a ladder so I have more room for laps. Did you consider this and if so, what drove you to the bench?

Chris

 

[HermanTX]

We plan to shoot for at least 9" water depth.

A 9" water depth will also have another 3-4" from water line to top of coping. So you are looking at a 12" step to get onto the shelf. Others with water depths of 9 or more inches consider a short step on the shelf to assist entry or exit.

any ideas for ideal return locations

Your returns should be positioned to create circulation around the pool and direct debris to the skimmers. I could not determine on your drawing where the skimmers are placed. Additionally, it is recommended to have 2 skimmers and have each independently plumbed back to the equipment pad.