When did Jandy declare war on DIY?

Bingo.

I generally factor “can my 7 & 4 year old reach it?”

Interesting we opt on different products, based on your comments I’m going to stop buying plans for electronics - frankly I can’t remember ever taking advantage of them.

These extortion plans sell emotion.
 
Its all in what you know. I never buy consumer electronics protection plans. Electronics either has early infant mortality or runs past any plans. A mid life failure is rare and i come out ahead self insuring.

Pool stuff runs in a harsh outdoor environment. Much harder predicting the equipment life.


Allen, that's my experience as well. On the genset, in most years it gets run more testing itself with the automatic tests every two weeks. I only have 60 hrs on it when power was out for 2 days plus tests every 2 two weeks. I could purchase extended warranty to 10 years for $1000 but the most expensive repair would be about that cost if I do it myself.

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Bingo.

I generally factor “can my 7 & 4 year old reach it?”

Interesting we opt on different products, based on your comments I’m going to stop buying plans for electronics - frankly I can’t remember ever taking advantage of them.

These extortion plans sell emotion.

Consumer Reports used to recommend avoid all extended warranties on electronics except Apple Plan... I think that's changed to even avoid Apple Plan now.

Chris
 
Jandy SWG’s stink anyway....all of their SWG products produce less chlorine per day than their competitor’s equivalent model. If you’re going to go a self-installed route, then look at CircuPool SWG’s. You can get units that produce upwards of 3lbs of chlorine gas per day (that’s HUGE) and they are totally ok with internet sales and DIY installs.

Jandy - “We’re giving up on the internet...”

Internet - “You won’t be missed....buh-bye!”

The CEO that approved that business decision should be fired by the company’s board! “Giving up on the internet” is the equivalent of saying “We’re going to go back to rotary-dial phones!!” .... good luck with that sunshine ..... I never liked Jandy anyway.....
I have to agree with you. Jandy's business model is the worst I've ever seen. I spent a small fortune on my first pool 2 years ago. Having zero knowledge of pool components I allowed the builder to install 2 complete Jandy systems, 1 for pool and 1 for spa. Now trying to automate them has been a complete nightmare. Jandy wants us to go through our local distributors in our areas but in my case none of them have any parts for automation and none of them have much knowledge about automation. Everything I have ever called for has a lead time of months, not days or weeks. I have called tech support line twice. The first time I was given good information and the second time the support person was rude, obnoxious, and reminded me that all warranty on their products would be voided if they weren't installed by a Jandy professional. What a crappy company. If they would produce better installation manuals a person wouldn't have to wait 3 hours for a call back from tech support agent because their call center is overwhelmed. My next round of equipment will be anything but Jandy. Thank God for ebay and great forums like this in the mean time! ~Mark
 
I have to agree with you. Jandy's business model is the worst I've ever seen. I spent a small fortune on my first pool 2 years ago. Having zero knowledge of pool components I allowed the builder to install 2 complete Jandy systems, 1 for pool and 1 for spa. Now trying to automate them has been a complete nightmare. Jandy wants us to go through our local distributors in our areas but in my case none of them have any parts for automation and none of them have much knowledge about automation. Everything I have ever called for has a lead time of months, not days or weeks. I have called tech support line twice. The first time I was given good information and the second time the support person was rude, obnoxious, and reminded me that all warranty on their products would be voided if they weren't installed by a Jandy professional. What a crappy company. If they would produce better installation manuals a person wouldn't have to wait 3 hours for a call back from tech support agent because their call center is overwhelmed. My next round of equipment will be anything but Jandy. Thank God for ebay and great forums like this in the mean time! ~Mark
I have similar opinion of Jandy in regards to their DIY stance. But hey, they clearly have made a business decision that they believe is in their best interest. Too bad for me since I liked several of their products a LOT. But for some such as swg not so much. Most OEM's are making DIY harder and harder DIY. I suspect it's because they want to protect their dealer network barrier to entry for competition. Also I don't think this has anything to like or dislike of DIYer's it's probably more likely they make almost no profit on DIY sales that are a large percentage of support hours spend on DIYer's that are over their head and should use an authorized dealer. When total costs are added up DIY make up almost no profit. So for me, I just keep on looking for quality products that are viable as DIY... so far that hasn't been very difficult.

Chris
 
I have similar opinion of Jandy in regards to their DIY stance. But hey, they clearly have made a business decision that they believe is in their best interest. Too bad for me since I liked several of their products a LOT. But for some such as swg not so much. Most OEM's are making DIY harder and harder DIY. I suspect it's because they want to protect their dealer network barrier to entry for competition. Also I don't think this has anything to like or dislike of DIYer's it's probably more likely they make almost no profit on DIY sales that are a large percentage of support hours spend on DIYer's that are over their head and should use an authorized dealer. When total costs are added up DIY make up almost no profit. So for me, I just keep on looking for quality products that are viable as DIY... so far that hasn't been very difficult.

Chris
One of the reasons Jandy "quit the internet" as they advertised in trade magazines was the issue of warranty support. I quit doing warranty work for them because I was sent to too many DIY installations that were bad, dangerous, non-code that I wouldn't touch. Not my job to bring something up to code because of a bad installation. Too much liability to make a repair and not. Best to walk away.

Made a lot of pool owners upset because, naturally, they did it "just like the instructions said." Dangling, broken electrical connections with exposed conductors. "Can't you go ahead and re-wire that for me?"
Pool pumps installed with extension cords that ran under-voltage and burned the motors. " Why is that a problem?"

Improper gas line connections. Heaters in pool rooms with too little ventilation because they wanted a larger heater. "Yes, you have to cut larger holes in your walls." "No, you can't just leave the door open because you won't always do that and someone could be injured."

Filters plumbed backwards and the cartridges blown out. Just some of what I wasted time on. Not so much a complaint as the view from the other side. I made a business choice to quit that type of work. So did Jandy.

For every conscientious member on this forum there must be five who shouldn't touch their equipment.
 
For every conscientious member on this forum there must be five who shouldn't touch their equipment.
Any idea why those folks chose Jandy ? Do the other 2 seem to have similar wahoo installation rates ? Think they will follow suit for similar reasons ?
 
Any idea why those folks chose Jandy ? Do the other 2 seem to have similar wahoo installation rates ? Think they will follow suit for similar reasons ?
In my area, Jandy dominated for years. In fact, until Pac-Fab started buying American Pool Products, Purex, Rainbow, etc. and then was purchased by Pentair, and they bought Sta-Rite, they seemed to be the largest 30 years ago. I started to do warranty work as just a supplement as there is not a great deal in it for the service person.

Same thing happened with both of the other big guys. My preferred line was Hayward at the time. Never sold a lot of Pentair, just personal choice (I have a Pentair filter on my pool). Ultimately, they've all been very good equipment, in my experience

If I installed a piece of Hayward equipment and had an issue with a warranty part (which didn't happen much, same as Jandy) I could just call them, tell them the issue, they would either send the part to me or the customer. I was happy to make the customer happy by doing the repair (actually never charged the service fee that Hayward suggested), and then return the bad part through distribution (wholesalers). Local rep would pick it up, done.
With the advancement of internet sales, Hayward was receiving so many "warranty" claims that were related to improper, non-code, etc. installations that now all warranty issues have to be handled through their warranty stations, with a fee, even if a pro does the install. I can't even help a customer now except recommend a good warranty person I know.

This is one reason that you can't purchase some brands online (yes, there are ways around that), or the warranty is limited if self-installed. Manufacturers, by laws that vary in this country, have to offer some warranty on their parts, but also have to protect themselves.
 
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Also note the changes in ownership of the major players in pool equipment.

Jandy is owned by Fluidra a European company listed on the Spanish stock exchange. Fluidra owns Jandy, Polaris, Zodiac, Nature2, CoverPools, CMP, Grand Effects, blueriiot.

Hayward Industries used to be a family owned and run company. In 2017 Hayward was acquired by a partnership of three private equity companies. Hayward Holdings did an IPO and listed their share on NASDAQ on May 2021. HAYW is below their IPO price of 17 today.

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Pentair Pool is part of Pentair Water solutions. Pentair has gone through a few restructurings but seems to still be privately owned. I think that is why Pentair seems to be the most DIY friendly and customer focused. Although Pentair may be investment constrained compared to the resources that Fluidra and Hayward may now have to invest.


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In summary, much has changed with the major pool equipment companies over the last few years.
 
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Maybe Elon Musk should buy them all and Maytronics too and restructure them under one private company called PoolX … then maybe pool equipment tech could come into the 21st century …
 
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Pentair is a huge conglomerate of companies that have been acquired that are all somehow related by water it seems. They serve residential, commercial, industrial, and agricultural sectors. They have a market cap of over $8 Billion and they make about $1B in revenue every quarter. I would expect there's intense pressure of every sector to perform and that may be why we see some of the seemingly long, long times to get simple firmware upgrades for Intellicenter. I personally like their products but the more these major OEM's get bigger and bigger I think their focus on the fairly small pool products lines will become less and it will be interesting to say the least how this works out for them and us.

Chris
 
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