When did Jandy declare war on DIY?

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
Oct 25, 2015
556
1
Stuart/FL
#1
Folks,

I'm searching for components to add SWG to my pool. It's all Jandy so naturally that's where I start looking. On their main website I found their online catalog. They state several places they are banning online sales (don't see any sign of that on online sellers). They are also offering no warranty unless equipment is purchased through dealers and installed by licensed professionals. I looked at Hayward's warranty and see no such language, haven't looked at others. Can somebody explain what is going on with this? The tone of these messages is almost offensive to me. I do a lot of DIY and I've used their equipment almost exclusively. Below are some excerpts of the language. So is this what happens when the big players buy up their competition? Suddenly customers are the enemy unless we pay list price and then get forced to pay for professional installation whether we need it or not Maybe I need to rethink my addition of aquapure SWG?

I'm really stunned!


Chris


Here is an excerpt from P 876 of their catalog:

"This Jandy Limited Warranty does not apply to Jandy branded products purchased through the Internet or other e-commerce platforms, with
the exception of Jandy branded valves, parts, and accessories.
This warranty applies only to products installed and serviced by a contractor who is licensed and qualified in pool equipment by the jurisdiction
in which the product will be installed, where such state or local requirements exists. In the event no such state or local requirement exists, the installer
and maintainer must be a professional with sufficient experience in pool equipment installation and maintenance."

Here's another item of interest from p 877:

IMPORTANT NOTICE
NO WARRANTY if purchased
online. This is not a DIY
product. Installation by a
qualified pool professional
required. Register product at
Jandy.com/registration.

Here's a segment of p 3:

we’re
quitting
the
internet

WHEN YOU’RE STRONG,
WE’RE ALL STRONG.

We’re all in this together. That’s why we’re making the bold
move to prohibit the sale of ALL Jandy® equipment online.
 

GregInClaremont

Silver Supporter
Jun 25, 2017
128
0
Claremont, CA
#2
My read of the tone of it is this: "We can't compete in an open market with our competitor brands. We are therefore pledging loyalty to builders/contractors in hopes they pledge loyalty to us in return and push our product when selling to customers."

I understand that warranty scenarios might arise from some customers that haven't any idea what they are doing but I think a company should still back up their products in regards to basic workmanship. For example, swapping out existing parts like a SWG, filter housing, or even a pump. It seems more like an "out" in regards to liability that these companies take advantage of in my opinion. This is not beyond the skillset of many people I know.

I come from a trade myself that sees DIY'ers getting into the mix with just enough YouTube skill to often times make a mess of things. This in turn creates work for those that can do the "clean up" though.

Just my thoughts.
 

duraleigh

Admin
Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Platinum Supporter
TFP Expert
In The Industry
Apr 1, 2007
31,265
3
Sebring, Florida
tftestkits.net
#3
I am no fan of Jandy but my take is a little different. They simply chose to do business differently than others.

Will they be successful? I doubt it but it is certainly their right to try.
 

Divin Dave

LifeTime Supporter
TFP Expert
Oct 2, 2013
5,184
1
61
Longview, Texas
#4
Here's a segment of p 3:

we’re
quitting
the
internet


I can't imagine Jandy would abandon the online market, but who knows!
The warranty isn't all that far removed from other pool products though. Some cleaner companies void warranty of online purchase. I believe Pentair only offers 90 day for DIYers....

Like Dave says though, its their company, they can do business however they want. I think its a pretty bad move though.

I also agree with Greg, in that some people just don't have any skills at all and have no business attempting a DIY, and end up costing more to fix it than it would have to hire someone in the first place. So maybe that has a large influence on their decision too.
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
TFP Expert
Jul 7, 2014
10,186
2
Bedford, TX
#5
Chris,

I suspect Jandy DIY sales are about 10% of their business and 75% of their returns and problems... They are just trying to protect their main customers which are pool builders and the like..

Pentair does the same thing.. the warranty is something like 60 days, to cover infantile failures, unless installed by a "Professional"...

Do I like it, no.. but I can understand it.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
Oct 25, 2015
556
1
Stuart/FL
#6
Folks,

I concur with all of y'all and sure it's their right to do this if they think it's best for them. But it seems like they're trying to say it but not really do it too publicly. They have these disclaimers on pages that nobody normally reads then the entire catalog references warranties like they should be compared straight-up with competitors. When their warranty is zero for me. This appears to go across the board to every single thing they sell except valves and valve parts. So a temp transducer and/or any other part a pool-owner buys from them has zero warranty. It's not just your DIY'er doing bigger projects. It goes to filter elements and normal replacement/maintenance parts for anything they sell except valves and valve parts.

Pool equipment supply must be a brutal business and I feel for them as they struggle with the fierce competition of online market place. But it sure makes me resentful that they attempt to circle up with their distribution channel and service providers to wage war on the actual end-use customers. I personally like my service providers and am happy to pay their margin when I need them. I want them to stay in business. This approach is the opposite of customer-focused excellence that I learned in my years of business. I think I see where this strategy would make sense to Zodiac/Jandy - continue to sell without calling too much attention to it while they pull out of the online sales channel. Then eventually they have a captive market of people like me that get squeezed for everything I buy. All because I was a "stupid loyal customer". NO THANKS, I'm out!

This thread is probably in the wrong forum so I'll request a moderator move it if you think that's appropriate. I'm shocked and even sorry that I even had to start this thread.

Chris
 

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
Oct 25, 2015
556
1
Stuart/FL
#7
I am no fan of Jandy but my take is a little different. They simply chose to do business differently than others.

Will they be successful? I doubt it but it is certainly their right to try.
Dave,

Yep, I agree. It's also sad that they feel they have to get to "almost collusion" in order to compete. Do they not believe in their own innovation and manufacturing excellence as a way to compete effectively?

'nuff said on this. I'll plan my transition from Jandy then get back to enjoying my pool!

Chris
 

PoolguyinCT

In The Industry
Jul 22, 2014
2,659
0
Connecticut
#8
Folks,

I'm searching for components to add SWG to my pool. It's all Jandy so naturally that's where I start looking. On their main website I found their online catalog. They state several places they are banning online sales (don't see any sign of that on online sellers). They are also offering no warranty unless equipment is purchased through dealers and installed by licensed professionals. I looked at Hayward's warranty and see no such language, haven't looked at others. Can somebody explain what is going on with this? The tone of these messages is almost offensive to me. I do a lot of DIY and I've used their equipment almost exclusively. Below are some excerpts of the language. So is this what happens when the big players buy up their competition? Suddenly customers are the enemy unless we pay list price and then get forced to pay for professional installation whether we need it or not Maybe I need to rethink my addition of aquapure SWG?

I'm really stunned!


Chris


Here is an excerpt from P 876 of their catalog:

"....This warranty applies only to products installed and serviced by a contractor who is licensed and qualified in pool equipment by the jurisdiction
in which the product will be installed, where such state or local requirements exists. In the event no such state or local requirement exists, the installer
and maintainer must be a professional with sufficient experience in pool equipment.
This passage applies/excludes to those installing the units for compensation & not in compliance with public law of the local jurisdiction..

Depending on the jurisdiction, that may be a state register or license relevant to this scope of work.

No jurisdiction in the USA prohibits a property owner from code compliant self performed work.
 

JoyfulNoise

Platinum Supporter
TFP Expert
May 23, 2015
14,323
6
Tucson, AZ
Do you currently work in the pool industry?
No
#9
Jandy SWG’s stink anyway....all of their SWG products produce less chlorine per day than their competitor’s equivalent model. If you’re going to go a self-installed route, then look at CircuPool SWG’s. You can get units that produce upwards of 3lbs of chlorine gas per day (that’s HUGE) and they are totally ok with internet sales and DIY installs.

Jandy - “We’re giving up on the internet...”

Internet - “You won’t be missed....buh-bye!”

The CEO that approved that business decision should be fired by the company’s board! “Giving up on the internet” is the equivalent of saying “We’re going to go back to rotary-dial phones!!” .... good luck with that sunshine ..... I never liked Jandy anyway.....
 

rmturner54

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2013
553
0
Waxahachie, Tx.
#11
All I can say is with my recent warranty issue with hayward on my pump failure , which lasted 3 months. Several phone calls from me and the authorized service co to get the part. It became very clear they dod not want to help. So the co. I bought the pmp from stepped and agreed to swap me pumps and said that they would deal w Hayward. I got a Jandy max flow in relacement. Based on ser co recommendation. They said Jandy much easier to deal w and get parts. And less issues.
 

PoolguyinCT

In The Industry
Jul 22, 2014
2,659
0
Connecticut
#12
Jandy SWG’s stink anyway....all of their SWG products produce less chlorine per day than their competitor’s equivalent model. If you’re going to go a self-installed route, then look at CircuPool SWG’s. You can get units that produce upwards of 3lbs of chlorine gas per day (that’s HUGE) and they are totally ok with internet sales and DIY installs.

Jandy - “We’re giving up on the internet...”

Internet - “You won’t be missed....buh-bye!”

The CEO that approved that business decision should be fired by the company’s board! “Giving up on the internet” is the equivalent of saying “We’re going to go back to rotary-dial phones!!” .... good luck with that sunshine ..... I never liked Jandy anyway.....
Smoke & mirrors- they are not missing any www
Sales -

Jandy pro series, jandy, zodiac, zodiac pro series etc - same goods different color..


It’s a mere attempt to coddle contractors competing with www volume, selling below dealer wholesale.. This is achieved by playing the rebate volume game vs margin on the units. It’s a very wild game.

Solve this problem, wholesaler rebate should go bye bye.
 

sktn77a

Gold Supporter
May 16, 2010
762
0
Chapel Hill, NC
#13
Just type up a bogus purchase and installation invoice from "ABC pools and Spas" (which went out of business shortly after they performed the work).

Better still, get a Pentair (although they limit their warranty for owner installs).
 

PoolguyinCT

In The Industry
Jul 22, 2014
2,659
0
Connecticut
#14
Just type up a bogus purchase and installation invoice from "ABC pools and Spas" (which went out of business shortly after they performed the work).

Better still, get a Pentair (although they limit their warranty for owner installs).
For starters that is fraud.
& too superficial to survive scrutiny, serial numbers reflect the lots & which distributors purchased them.

As far as mythical contractor which never held state registration or license where mandated, records which do not disappear, well that plays into the “qualified by jurisdiction” language.
 

ajw22

TFP Guide
Gold Supporter
Jul 21, 2013
2,684
0
Northern NJ
#15
Manufacturers have to decide what sales channels they want their products sold into. Professional and DIY are different channels. Many companies sell slightly different products to different channels.

Zodiac/Jandy wants PB to install bundles of their products. I am sure they have done the analysis of sales and market across channels. Pentair addressed the issue with their warranty differences. Jandy probably felt they had to better Pentair to try and convert Pentair dealers.

There are other companies like Circupool who focus on the direct sales channel.

Business strategies evolve over time. We will see where this leads with Jandy products.
 

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
Oct 25, 2015
556
1
Stuart/FL
#16
Matt,

Wow! CircuPool sounds fantastic. I'll check them out. I've probably been to loyal so I didn't check the competition out thoroughly. I can't believe Jandy or anybody would take a position like this on the internet. Sounds a lot to me like Kodak when the told their board digital photography would take 20-30 years to "catch on"... they filed for bankruptcy less than 2 years later. I sent Jandy a letter asking for clarification and noting that I've been a loyal customer both DIY and via their dealer that I like a lot. I'll let everybody know what if anything their response is.

I'm still stunned...

Chris
 

JoyfulNoise

Platinum Supporter
TFP Expert
May 23, 2015
14,323
6
Tucson, AZ
Do you currently work in the pool industry?
No
#17
It’s not unlike Maytronics with their robots - they mostly push their products through distributors and discourage online sales with warranty exclusions. I think there’s only one model of their robots that you can get online and it’s a very basic unit. Anything else and you have to go through a brick & mortar shop (whether locally in-person or calling them up from out of state).
 

setsailsoon

LifeTime Supporter
Oct 25, 2015
556
1
Stuart/FL
#18
Matt,

Yep, I know there are some companies that try to avoid competition and it usually doesn't end up successful. My whole house genset is sort of an example of a reasonable solution. The I bought the 22KW genset plus parts then managed the installation and hired an electrical contractor and gas supply contractor myself. Each contractor pulled their own permits. My warranty was 5 years. I could have gotten longer from a dealer/GC but the savings was more attractive than an extended warranty. But I saved $3200 by self-managing the job compared to the dealer GC so I was happy.

Chris
 

PoolguyinCT

In The Industry
Jul 22, 2014
2,659
0
Connecticut
#19
At home I rarely purchase extended warranties & warranty rarely factors into my higher end decisions.

When I do buy an extortion aka protection plan, it’s for mid range consumer electronics.

At work, I find warranty situations arise very quickly after install.
 

ajw22

TFP Guide
Gold Supporter
Jul 21, 2013
2,684
0
Northern NJ
#20
At home I rarely purchase extended warranties & warranty rarely factors into my higher end decisions.

When I do buy an extortion aka protection plan, it’s for mid range consumer electronics.

At work, I find warranty situations arise very quickly after install.
Its all in what you know. I never buy consumer electronics protection plans. Electronics either has early infant mortality or runs past any plans. A mid life failure is rare and i come out ahead self insuring.

Pool stuff runs in a harsh outdoor environment. Much harder predicting the equipment life.