Swim Spa - Alkalinity is Low But PH is High

swimspaguyy11

Bronze Supporter
Nov 15, 2021
87
NJ
Hi all, I have a 2000 gallon swim spa, the water is great, nice and clear, I keep it at around 2ppm Bromine, that combined with weekly shocking with non-chlorine shock and the Ozone Generator/UV (Diamond AOP) and the litte frog mineral sticks keeps the water really nice. However, my water sits around 7.6-7.8 PH. It stays pretty stable in that range. Yet my Alkalinity only reads about 40. (Taylor kit for all tests). I keep reading and am being told to raise the Alkalinity but obviously if I do that I will need to add PH down. The thing is, do I really need to if my PH is so nicely stable? It's my understand the Alk is a PH buffer so it doesnt swing easily, but mine doesnt. It's also odd IMO because when I was researching almost everyone has the opposite problem, it seems rare to have low Alk but high PH. I'm wodering does my water have another mineral that is buffering the PH/keeping it increased that the Alk test doesnt detect?

Thanks.
 
If your pH is stable don’t adjust your alkalinity.

Your pH is not high. It is right in the middle of the good range.

What is the pH and TA of your fill water?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
I keep it at around 2ppm Bromine
Are you committed to Bromine? Chlorine might be an easier way to sanitize.

Ozone Generator/UV (Diamond AOP) and the litte frog mineral sticks
None of these are recommended. They cause more problems than they attempt to solve.

Ozone Systems

UV Systems

Metals

Aqua Smarte Mineral System

You list "Taylor Test kit + Leslie's tests" in your signature. What test kit do you have? Use a quality test kit and don't rely on pool store testing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
If your pH is stable don’t adjust your alkalinity.

Your pH is not high. It is right in the middle of the good range.

What is the pH and TA of your fill water?

Thanks, a few times the PH drifted a little lower like 7.4 and I used that as a chance to add TA, I think it was around 30 at the time.

TBH I never checked the fill water, I could do it now but since its city water Im not sure if its going to be the same now in Feb that it was in late October.
 
Are you committed to Bromine? Chlorine might be an easier way to sanitize.


None of these are recommended. They cause more problems than they attempt to solve.

Ozone Systems

UV Systems

Metals

Aqua Smarte Mineral System

You list "Taylor Test kit + Leslie's tests" in your signature. What test kit do you have? Use a quality test kit and don't rely on pool store testing.

No I am not committed to Bromine, I dont like how hard it is to rinse it off. I shower with a body wash that claims to help remove Bromine and the next afternoon when I do my workout I smell it coming out of my pores still. Never had that happens with chlorine.

I was told I basically dont have a choice, they said the water is too hot so i would need to put chlorine in it multiple times a day or something like that. I keep it around 99F in the winter which reads 100-101F on my stand alone temp gauge. I am moving soon to a house with an inground pool and taking my swim spa with me, so it would be more convenient if I could use chlorine for both I guess.

That sucks about the DIamond AOP not being good. I thought it seemed to be working pretty good because I am able to keep the water at 1.5-2.5ppm of bromine when they recommend 4-6ppm.

I am using this test kit, I stopped using the Leslie's test but I am surprised to hear its not good, it seemed pretty high tech lol.

Taylor K-2106 FAS-DPD Bromine Complete Test Kit​

 
Not having a choice is untrue.
Most people here use chlorine for their swim spas & hot tubs, myself included. It is necessary to check/add liquid chlorine daily & after use if you are manually dosing so many opt for a drop in swg to keep up the residual fc at all times & then just add liquid chlorine after heavy bather loads. A swim spa is more like a small pool in that the bather load to water volume ratio is a bit larger than a spa- this usually means that fc levels are a little more stable than in a small tub.
We have easy to follow guides for each sanitizer choice 👇
Your test kit is fine for bromine use but requires a couple different regeants for chlorine use & different instructions.
That kit is also missing the cya test because it is irrelevant in a bromine pool/spa but it is imperative for a chlorine pool/spa
If you decide to swap over to chlorine @ your next purge/drain/refill you can purchase the
Taylor K-1515-A Chlorine FAS-DPD Drop Test Kit & Taylor K-1721 cya test kit for about $30 each at various sites.

Also tftestkits.net has both the fas-dpd chlorine kit & cya test kit available for about $50.
 
I am not committed to Bromine
In that case, I would suggest converting to using chlorine as your sanitizer, get a recommended test kit, and stop using ozone, UV, and mineral systems. A Saltron Mini SWG would probably be ideal for your setup.

 
Not having a choice is untrue.
Most people here use chlorine for their swim spas & hot tubs, myself included. It is necessary to check/add liquid chlorine daily & after use if you are manually dosing so many opt for a drop in swg to keep up the residual fc at all times & then just add liquid chlorine after heavy bather loads. A swim spa is more like a small pool in that the bather load to water volume ratio is a bit larger than a spa- this usually means that fc levels are a little more stable than in a small tub.
We have easy to follow guides for each sanitizer choice 👇
Your test kit is fine for bromine use but requires a couple different regeants for chlorine use & different instructions.
That kit is also missing the cya test because it is irrelevant in a bromine pool/spa but it is imperative for a chlorine pool/spa
If you decide to swap over to chlorine @ your next purge/drain/refill you can purchase the
Taylor K-1515-A Chlorine FAS-DPD Drop Test Kit & Taylor K-1721 cya test kit for about $30 each at various sites.

Also tftestkits.net has both the fas-dpd chlorine kit & cya test kit available for about $50.

In that case, I would suggest converting to using chlorine as your sanitizer, get a recommended test kit, and stop using ozone, UV, and mineral systems. A Saltron Mini SWG would probably be ideal for your setup.



Thank you, I am curious why you are all recommending I switch from Bromine? I assume that means I will also need to change over to chlorine based shock? I definitely dont want to be adding chlorine on a daily basis, so I would definelty want to go with the salt generator system, I believe that means I don't need to buy chlorine but instead buy salt to add to the pool, correct? Does it make the pool water taste/feel salty? I dont think I have even been in a salt pool,or at least didnt know I was. I guess I could convert my new inground pool to salt as well?

It's definetly disappointing that the diamond AOP system i bought should basically just be scrapped..... It seemed like a good thing for bromine especially since the ozone recharges the bromine i think. I admit UV seemed weird since it breaks down bromine though. The only thing that makes me feel better is I bought a preconfigured spa build that came with it, i would be more salty if i specifically asked for the diamond aop and paid extra for it (Im sure i did pay extra for it but it was in the stores build so I never saw the add on price, just the total) lol

Finally, I recall when i asked the spa store about chlorine, they said I would need to buy a special chlorine called spa 56, I believe they said it was made for hot water spas or something?

Thanks much
 
To use chlorine you would follow the dichlor then bleach (liquid chlorine) method- 👇
I am not sure what spa 56 is but
You want the active ingredient to be 99%
sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione.
Then after cya is about 30ppm you would dose with bleach/liquid chlorine.
Salt is a one time addition & doesn’t leave the water unless you exchange water. It has a chemical reaction with the swg’s cell that produces free chlorine then it gets converted back to salt.
You will still need to check/dose with liquid chlorine after heavy bather loads & to be sure you are maintaining fc above min for your cya FC/CYA Levels
Saltwater chlorine generators are maintainers - they aren’t designed to get you to target from zero & should be supplemented with manual chlorine additions if necessary.
Bromine isn’t a terrible choice & if it’s working for you great 👍🏻
It is my understanding that the bromine bank needs to be reactivated & this can be accomplished with multiple forms of chlorine- dichlor, bleach, or a swg.
The chlorine gets converted to bromine.
There are many who go back & forth between bromine & chlorine upon draining/refilling.
To do so requires complete water replacement. This forum is mainly chlorine based so there’s alot more available knowledge about that choice. I personally like chlorine because I am not a fan of mystery & prefer to be able to test every parameter & dose accordingly in exact amounts using PoolMath.
With bromine you can only test for total bromine- the rest (free bromine & how much bank you have) is a guess.
Same goes for mps (non chlorine shock), & the frog’s 🐸 magic ingredients.

You mentioned a pool - it is not listed in your signature. How do you care for/sanitize it?
 
To use chlorine you would follow the dichlor then bleach (liquid chlorine) method- 👇
I am not sure what spa 56 is but
You want the active ingredient to be 99%
sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione.
Then after cya is about 30ppm you would dose with bleach/liquid chlorine.
Salt is a one time addition & doesn’t leave the water unless you exchange water. It has a chemical reaction with the swg’s cell that produces free chlorine then it gets converted back to salt.
You will still need to check/dose with liquid chlorine after heavy bather loads & to be sure you are maintaining fc above min for your cya FC/CYA Levels
Saltwater chlorine generators are maintainers - they aren’t designed to get you to target from zero & should be supplemented with manual chlorine additions if necessary.
Bromine isn’t a terrible choice & if it’s working for you great 👍🏻
It is my understanding that the bromine bank needs to be reactivated & this can be accomplished with multiple forms of chlorine- dichlor, bleach, or a swg.
The chlorine gets converted to bromine.
There are many who go back & forth between bromine & chlorine upon draining/refilling.
To do so requires complete water replacement. This forum is mainly chlorine based so there’s alot more available knowledge about that choice. I personally like chlorine because I am not a fan of mystery & prefer to be able to test every parameter & dose accordingly in exact amounts using PoolMath.
With bromine you can only test for total bromine- the rest (free bromine & how much bank you have) is a guess.
Same goes for mps (non chlorine shock), & the frog’s 🐸 magic ingredients.

You mentioned a pool - it is not listed in your signature. How do you care for/sanitize it?

Thank you! Seems I have A LOT to learn and consider. I really havent had any issues with the Bromine but mainly because its just me using the 2000 gallon spa, I always shower before using it, and my wife joins me once in a while and she showers before ussing it too. One time I let the bromine get to 0 and it got cloudy for like a week but since then no issues, that was my mistake. The main reason I would consider switchinng is because Ive read chlorine is easier to rinse off than Bromine, is that true? I dont mind having to dose the pool after using it, currently I shock after I use it a day or two.

Currently I just added bromine initiator when i filled it the first time, then added a floater with some bromine tablets and then once a week i shock it with 2-3oz of MPS/non-chlorine shock. I thought that the MPS was reactivating my bromine bank. Like you said its really a mystery to me, I just keep like 2-3 tablets in the floater and shock it weekly and as long as the water is clear and it tests around 1.5-2.5ppm bromine i just call it good enough at the moment.

I just bought the house with the inground pool (its how I ended up with a swim spa and a pool, I would have never bought the swim spa if i knew I was going to move, now I have to pay a lot to move the swim spa to the new house) so I have never done anything with the pool yet. I know the seller used chlorine tablets though because she left me a box of them to get started.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
The main reason I would consider switchinng is because Ive read chlorine is easier to rinse off than Bromine, is that true?
Rinse off? Getting out of a pool that is properly chlorinated is as good or better as when getting out of a shower. I never have to 'rinse off' after getting out of our pool with a SWCG.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
Rinse off? Getting out of a pool that is properly chlorinated is as good or better as when getting out of a shower. I never have to 'rinse off' after getting out of our pool with a SWCG.

Well I am not sure now if I am just doing it wrong or Bromine is just different. I find I smell like bromine when I sweat if I dont shower after i use the spa, as a matter of fact i smell like bromine when i sweat the next day regardless if i shower. And that is with it only at 2ppm. If I can avoid having to rinse off completely after getting out of the spa, that is reason right there to switch to chlorine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
I don’t know about the rinsing off either- i have never felt like i needed to rinse off after using my chlorine or salt pool or spa unless i was covered in sunscreen or something. I have swg’s now in both but i still keep my fc at manually chlorinated levels based on the FC/CYA Levels as i did before.
I do know i used a bromine spa on vacation & it turned my silver ring black 😳 I also definitely felt the need to shower after using it- it was quite harsh. I have no idea what the levels were in the tub at the time- they were likely through the roof.
In general I think most people attribute issues like smell or feel to the particular sanitizer used when in fact its often a problem of improper use, lack of proper sanitation, or other levels that are out of whack.
You can also definitely use mps to “re-activate” your bank as u have been doing but Some also find mps to be an irritant.
For this reason many use chlorine to activate with instead.
I don’t put things in my tub that i can’t calculate with poolmath so MPS is a no go for me & i have never used it.
Going all chlorine is simpler & more straightforward but does require more frequent vigilance/additions than bromine. This can be somewhat lessened by the addition of a swg to do the background chlorination.
It’s a good idea to get the hang of manually dosing with chlorine before adding a swg. Especially as you get your sea legs with testing & such.
Here’s another good article explaining chlorine options/differences that you can apply to your pool also. 👇
Also take some time with the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
To get a good understanding of how it all works together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Newdude
I don’t know about the rinsing off either- i have never felt like i needed to rinse off after using my chlorine or salt pool or spa unless i was covered in sunscreen or something. I have swg’s now in both but i still keep my fc at manually chlorinated levels based on the FC/CYA Levels as i did before.
I do know i used a bromine spa on vacation & it turned my silver ring black 😳 I also definitely felt the need to shower after using it- it was quite harsh. I have no idea what the levels were in the tub at the time- they were likely through the roof.
In general I think most people attribute issues like smell or feel to the particular sanitizer used when in fact its often a problem of improper use, lack of proper sanitation, or other levels that are out of whack.
You can also definitely use mps to “re-activate” your bank as u have been doing but Some also find mps to be an irritant.
For this reason many use chlorine to activate with instead.
I don’t put things in my tub that i can’t calculate with poolmath so MPS is a no go for me & i have never used it.
Going all chlorine is simpler & more straightforward but does require more frequent vigilance/additions than bromine. This can be somewhat lessened by the addition of a swg to do the background chlorination.
It’s a good idea to get the hang of manually dosing with chlorine before adding a swg. Especially as you get your sea legs with testing & such.
Here’s another good article explaining chlorine options/differences that you can apply to your pool also. 👇
Also take some time with the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
To get a good understanding of how it all works together.


Thanks so much everyone for the great info. I think you have all convinced me to try chlorine. I am moving my swim spa to a new house in the spring and that will be a good time to make the switch since i will obviously have to refill. It's def. not something I want to do in the winter anywayss since I will need to do additional testing, etc. Much easier to do in nice weather. I assume there are not spa specific guides I should be following? Most of the links you have all provided talk about chrolinating a pool. The pool store has me kind of programmed to think that chlorine in a heated spa is completely different than a pool due to the heat and small body of water.
 
Last edited:
The guide for tubs/pools i linked in post #9 is pretty detailed as it pertains to spas. I think where lots of folks get tripped up is not accounting for such an increased bather load as compared to a pool so they don’t replenish sanitizer accordingly. Testing the tub/spa before & after use for a while is your guide there. It lets u know what your typical use will consume so you can dose accordingly & never fall too low. Unfortunately many are just given some blanket advice from the pool store to throw “x” amount of xyz product in every week or after each use or something like that & of course that doesn’t usually end well.
In my tub I know I have a set amount of bleach I need to put in after a 1 person extended soak or 2 person quick soak etc. I gathered this info through frequently testing before & after use when i first got my tub. Obviously I still test frequently but i am able to omit the after use test generally because I know where i will end up.
In a swim spa it’s quite a bit larger volume compared to the bodies so u should have a little more margin to work with than a tiny spa like mine. You’re kinda inbetween a small pool & a spa. Its not as horribly people soup like 🥣 as a 400 gallon tub but the potential is still there so keeping on top of things is a must.
If u decide to go the drop in swg route to assist with chlorination - chlormaker has a larger option with more output called the megachlor that is for swim spas supposedly up to 17k gals. The saltron mini says it is good for up to 2k gallons. The price tags reflect accordingly. You may be able to “hide” the unit in your filter area.
 
Hi everyone, I have finally managed to read all the guides and helpful info you have all provided to me. I wouldnt say I fully understand it yet, but I am getting there...... After doing all the reading, I have the following questions/observations.

1) Regarding my existing setup (2k gallon swim spa w/ 3 step bromine method + uv/ozone diamond AOP system + frog sticks): Regarding the Diamond AOP system, it appears that I am one of the small use cases where Ozone/UV is actually not that bad of a thing based on the articles I was provided. Since I currently use bromine and keep the spa covered and use it a lot (mostly at night), it seems to be the one use case where the article said Ozone is not really a bad thing. it helps keep my PH balanced with the acidic bromine and it reactives my bromine bank. That being said, if I switch over to chlorine then I will turn it off. It seems the UV is more of a waste of money than anything else. The frog sticks I am going to just toss in the trash, they are likely used up by now anyways.

2) Also regarding my existing setup.... I am currently shocking with 2-3oz MPS roughly 1-3 times a week. Typically I shock after I use it 2 days in a row. I would like to try switching to a chlorine shock. based on the Bromine guide, it recommends house hold bleach, ultra bleach or pool bleach. Regular bleach it says 1cup per 300 gallons, with a 2k gallon swim spa I am looking at roughly 7 cups of bleach, which seems like a lot. Would it make more sense to go to the pool store and buy the pool bleach so I can cut that from 7 cups to like 1.5-2cups? I'm not sure how much my local pool store sells liquid chlorine for so I cant say which makes most sense financially yet. I guess if its cheaper I could do the 7 cups of bleach, but then I am having to buy a lot of bleach on a regular basis. I guess I could stay with MPS but people say its an irritant and I want to see if it makes a difference if I stop using it.

3) Regarding switching over to Chroline in the swim spa... I think what I am going to do is do chlorine this spring/summer and then maybe switch back to bromine for next winter. I dont mind testing the water daily in the spring/summer/fall but I dont want to have to do that in the winter. Currently with bromine I check like twice a week and put chemicals in once a week and that is nice when its 5F outside with 25mph wind. That being said, if I figure out what my needs are this spring/summer, and add a SWCG and get that dialed in, would I still need to check the levels daily next winter? (assuming I am doing a fresh fill shortly before the winter)

4) When I switch over to chlorine and I get it at the correct level with dichlor and then i switch to bleach, again, same as above, is household bleach feasible for a 2k gallon swim spa? not sure how much I am going to need yet, I dont think I recall reading a per gallon rate, it was all saying to go by your tested levels./

5) I have the taylor DPD bromine complete kit. Someone recommended adding the Taylor K-1515-A Chlorine FAS-DPD Drop Test Kit & Taylor K-1721 cya test kit for about $30 each. However, those kits come with 0.75oz bottles, the same that comes in the K-2006 complete kit for $60. Would it make more sense to just get the K-2006 since I get extra PH, TA and CA tests? Or am I misssing something here? I think maybe you get a lot more CYA tests with the seperate $30 kit though, so maybe that is the difference.

6) I will get a jump start on my new to me pool..... A question that arose from my reading is what is the best way to chrlorinate my new inground pool? I believe the previous owner used chlorine tablets but I was reading this that someeone provided: How to Chlorinate Your Pool and it says the tablets are basically bad becuase they build up too much CYA. Liquid bleach would be way way too much as its a full size inground pool. Would I want to add a SWCG system? Short of adding a SWCG, I am curious what the best option is? I guess I should search out the guide for pools ;)

Thanks again
 
If you buy household bleach, you want pure liquid chlorine with no additives. Additives such as fragrances, thickeners (splashless), or surfactants (outdoor bleach) may cause foaming. Bleach with fabric protectors (Cloromax Technology) may also cause foaming.

Most Clorox bleach today says it has Cloromax Technology. They are polymers that create foaming and are not suitable for pools. Clorox Germicidal Bleach did not have additives but the December 2019 label on their website now shows Cloromax Technology. So look carefully at the label and ingredients on any Clorox bleach products you intend to use in your pool.


Household bleach contains 5% or less chlorine versus pool chlorinating liquid which can be 10%-12% chlorine. I would not use any "bleach" in a pool that does not state the % chlorine it has and have a date code on the bottle to ensure it is fresh.



Get the Test Kits or the K-2006C. The C model K-2006 has larger bottles. The TF-100 is the best value.


 
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
Would I want to add a SWCG system? Short of adding a SWCG, I am curious what the best option is? I guess I should search out the guide for pools ;)


 
  • Like
Reactions: Mdragger88
If you buy household bleach, you want pure liquid chlorine with no additives. Additives such as fragrances, thickeners (splashless), or surfactants (outdoor bleach) may cause foaming. Bleach with fabric protectors (Cloromax Technology) may also cause foaming.

Most Clorox bleach today says it has Cloromax Technology. They are polymers that create foaming and are not suitable for pools. Clorox Germicidal Bleach did not have additives but the December 2019 label on their website now shows Cloromax Technology. So look carefully at the label and ingredients on any Clorox bleach products you intend to use in your pool.


Household bleach contains 5% or less chlorine versus pool chlorinating liquid which can be 10%-12% chlorine. I would not use any "bleach" in a pool that does not state the % chlorine it has and have a date code on the bottle to ensure it is fresh.



Get the Test Kits or the K-2006C. The C model K-2006 has larger bottles. The TF-100 is the best value.



It sounds like you are recommending getting pool liquid chlorine, I really dont want to have buy gallons of bleach every month so I was leaning towards that method.

Regarding the test kits, if I go with the TF-100 should I get any of the addons? Should I get the salt test strips or salt test kit (or both) since I plan on adding a SWCG eventually (save on shipping)?
 
It sounds like you are recommending getting pool liquid chlorine, I really dont want to have buy gallons of bleach every month so I was leaning towards that method.

Liquid chlorine gives you a higher concentration and less jugs to lug.

Regarding the test kits, if I go with the TF-100 should I get any of the addons?

The Smart Stir makes testing easier and more accurate.

Should I get the salt test strips or salt test kit (or both) since I plan on adding a SWCG eventually (save on shipping)?

Forget the test strips. Get the K-1766 Taylor Salt Test The salt test chemicals are stable and will last years.

If you want all of that then get the TF-Pro *Salt with SmartStir-for pools with SWG where it is all bundled in a nice box.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.