Planning SWG install, need advice

[TexEdmond]

Howdy! I've not done a ton of combing thru this forum, so forgive me if these have already been answered elsewhere. I need help and advice sizing and selecting SWG gear. Our PB doesn't recommend them, and they won't install or warranty anything I go out and buy on my own. So not a lot of help or advice from them, plus the previous owner of the house was the client who hired them, so I'm hosed on warranty / business relationship. Even if they did stock the equipment, of course they're not going to be interested in doing such a small job on short notice. So it'll be up to me, which I'm totally fine with. I'm pretty handy with things and know how to be safe with electricity.

I've seen a few threads mentioning oversizing the SWCG is a good idea, and I totally get it. I'm confident our pool is around 25,000 gallons after several different estimates, as well as the recollection of the pool builder, but I can certainly measure more and post here so y'all can check my math. I notice that the Pentair Screen Control app on my phone actually has the SWCG controls enabled, but they don't actually do anything because the hardware isn't present. Knowing that, I'd naturally tend towards their equipment, just for convenience and consistency's sake. That seems to limit my search to the IntelliChlor and iChlor lines. If the model numbers mean anything, does that tell me that the iChlor 30 would be for a 30k pool and "just barely enough" with a 1.2x overage margin? I found the correct manual that actually shows the IC series pool volumes. In overage margin, IC40 would be 1.6x and IC60 would be 2.4x then?

...

Did I just answer my own question? Is the IntelliChlor IC60 the correct unit for my needs? If so, what all do I need in peripherals besides the PC100 (P/N 520556) power supply kit and whatever plumbing unions make it fit? I had a thought it could be a drop-in replacement for my Rainbow 320 tab-soaker.

Thanks in advance!

edit: forgot photo.

 

[BowserB]

Yes. IC60 for your 25k pool, and that spot looks good. Pentair recommends first a vertical install, but horizontal is OK, too, and in your case too nearly perfect to ignore.

 

[TexEdmond]

Yes. IC60 for your 25k pool, and that spot looks good. Pentair recommends first a vertical install, but horizontal is OK, too, and in your case too nearly perfect to ignore.

THANK YOU!

That's great news to hear that the horizontal install is allowed. There is a pretty good rise in the pipe, plus the check valve protecting the heater right there ... that should further protect the horizontal install against backfeeding? Otherwise I'm going to have to make a cut below that check valve and replace it entirely to get a vertical install. I'm really big into "doing it correctly, safely" the first time and knowing that I'm not a professional plumber / pool installer, etc. Do you have other resources where I can educate us on the horizontal installation issue? I am seeing in the manual where it says "upward install."

Cheers!

edit: Whoa, it looks like the layout, coping, overall design of the masonry of our pools are very similar.

 

[mknauss]

plus the check valve protecting the heater right there ... that should further protect the horizontal install against backfeeding?

A check valve is unnecessary between a SWCG and heater. The SWCG does not create acidic water like a Trichlor feeder.

 

[needsajet]

I'm really big into "doing it correctly, safely" the first time

I think your plan is fine as is, but I'll just mention a couple of observations.

You have a bypass which diverts water past both the heater and inline chlorinator. With SWCG, the bypass would normally only bypass the heater, but it would require a bit of plumbing to achieve that change. That said, PVC plumbing is fairly easy on the DIY scale, and there's plenty of help here if needed.

It's fair to say that for your current plan, in the event you bypass the heater, you will also be bypassing the SWCG. Not a big deal, but something to be aware of.

The check valve is not needed to protect the heater, if eliminating the inline chlorinator, but it does complete the components needed to make the heater bypass work the way it's meant to work, for example being able to shut off the heater if it needs to be removed, or you'd prefer not to have water flowing through the heater when it's not in use, or if you like to drain it for any reason, but still run the pool circulation system.

Something worth considering is that the puck feeder can be useful at times, even with the SWCG, so some people retain them after conversion. On the other hand, it's quite simple to use a floater in the pool for those odd occasions.

 

[TexEdmond]

Brilliant! The puck feeder would be a very good way to titrate up to a final CYA amount anytime we did a refill. I was thinking about shooting it full of holes and mounting it to the wall, but it still might be of service. I can definitely do the PVC cutting and cementing.

 

[TexEdmond]

Project update: I'm getting closer to start this project. Any thoughts or observations are welcome and appreciated. Thanks again for the thoughtful comments above. I do notice the IC60 installation documentation specifically says the in-line chlorinator must go downstream of the IC cell. I do have a plumbing solution I believe will improve flow performance and still allow me to continue to chlorinate if I bypass the heater. Please feel free to check my math there as well, because it'll involve basically redoing all the PVC between the filter outlet and pool / spa return valve. I believe the next best solution would leave much of the existing plumbing intact, but I notice that cracking the bypass open even slightly almost completely shuts the backflow preventer, meaning very low flow past the chlorinator. This would render the salt cell almost unusable. Currently, when the bypass is closed with 100% flowing thru the heater on the right angle outlet, I notice a significant rise in filter pressure. (I may be wrong here about lower pressure on the straight thru pipe)

Parts (on hand, on order, arriving soon)

• IC60 Salt Cell (521105), estimated delivery tomorrow
• Dummy Bypass Cell (520588), estimated delivery tomorrow
• AquaChek salt test strips, estimated delivery tomorrow
• Intellichlor Power Center (520566), on hand
• 2 Extra IC60 unions, arriving next week

Parts / Supplies Needed:

• PVC, Angles, Couplers, Tee, Unions (TBD per final plan)
• AC 110v wire & whip (hope to cannibalize from Ozonator)
• Water Softener Salt (Amount TBD, we have a softener, so I'll use up the extra)

Current Chemistry stable, pH between 7.2-7.8

• TA 80 (a bit on the high side, want to work it down and add possibly add borates later)
• CH 325 (a bit on the low side, will adjust up if you tell me to. Still struggling with pH going high)
• CYA 40 (will titrate up with pucks / added stabilizer. Puck soaker turned to max)
• Salt (will measure when strips arrive and adjust)

The plan:

My best case scenario here is plumbing the system so that all of the pool water coming from the filter passes through both chlorinators before returning to the pool. The current setup bypasses both chlorinator and heater, which seems less than ideal. To fix this, I notice that the 3 way valve at the filter outlet can be rotated 90 degrees clockwise. I hope this will give me lower filter pressure and higher flow thru the heater, as well as relocating the bypass tee before the chlorinators.​

​

Here's my plan so far, scroll up for current configuration.​

​

​

 

[needsajet]

Looks very functional to me.

I notice the dummy cell on your list of parts arriving, so you won't need the SWCG bypass marked as optional on the drawing.

Yes, pushing all the water through the heater will tend toward higher back pressure. You'll be able to adjust that to however much you want going through the heater with the three-way valve, which can be used to vary the flow to its two outlets. That is it doesn't need to be on/off to either outlet; you can do 70/30 or whatever works for the heater.

For whatever reason, three-way valves are confusing, so just be sure to look inside and see which ports can be partially or fully closed. You want to be able to close down flow to the heater, or allow anything from partial to full flow toward the heater, and the same for the outlet going toward the bypass. You would not ever need to (nor want to inadvertently) prevent flow coming from the pump.

Another way to say this, if if you look at the valve as an upright T, the bottom is the inlet and needn't ever be closed.

I would add a check valve on the pump end of the inline tab chlorinator, to prevent acidity from backing down the pipe toward the SWCG and other components when the system is off.

You'll need glue and primer on the shopping list but I'm betting you already had considered that. A leather glove and sandpaper are both handy for removing PVC burrs after cutting pipe.

 

[TexEdmond]

Thanks so much for your reply. Thoughts, comments and answers below:

so you won't need the SWCG bypass marked as optional on the drawing.

This is my paranoia in full force. With my VS pump I see the heater has a max CFM of 150 the SWG says it might lose efficiency above 50 CFM, and with my floor cleaners, I'm concerned that the higher CFM setting for floor cleaners or spa mode might exceed that 50 CFM. So I have bought 2 - 2 - 1.5" Sched 40 tees and a ball valve that may well stay closed for its functional life, but I'd rather have it and not need it. If that's completely overkill, then I'll return the stuff. It probably wasn't $30 worth of PVC, so no big whuup either way.

That is it doesn't need to be on/off to either outlet; you can do 70/30 or whatever works for the heater.

The problem I'm having with the current setup is I don't have to open the bypass very far at all to completely pressurize the whole tube, which immediately shuts the check valve, meaning the heater (and SWG) would promptly shut off due to low flow. I'm honestly perplexed, and this is why I thought I'd rotate that valve so the heater gets the straight outlet and thus, more pressure. (This is strictly a W.A.G at the moment)

You would not ever need to (nor want to inadvertently) prevent flow coming from the pump

I find that the only reason to do this is it greatly speeds up draining water from the pool with no noticeable change in pump RPM or bogging down noise. I open all three outlets: the hose bib at the vapor lock loop, the sediment tornado purge valve, and the cartridge air purge and it really does flow a lot of water down my improvised above ground 4" corrugated drain pipe. But that's the only time I'd do that while the pump was on. I definitely will do that when I start taking plumbing apart for this upgrade, as it'll cut down on the flooding at the pool pad.

check valve on the pump end of the inline tab chlorinator,

This will definitely happen. I am reusing the check valve at the heater output, just rotating it so it'll clear more space for a vertical upflow SCG. That will protect the heater and SCG from tab water backflowing, and I'm also going to come up and over and back down from the SCG output, so it'll be a reverse upside down P trap sort of situation with a check valve too.

betting you already had considered that.

Already in the tool bag. Good reminder I'll prob need more though before this is through and it doesn't grow mold or need refrigerated. I also imagine I'll say more than once during this conversion, "I guess I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue..."

A leather glove and sandpaper are both handy for removing PVC burrs after cutting pipe.

I've found the compound mitre saw cuts an even smoother line than the factory ends; no burrs or even sharp edges remain. I get a "Perfectly" square cut every time, to the extent my fence isn't out of alignment. It's my sincere hope to do this right, once, and only use the sawzall for removal of the few key pieces that aren't removable by unions.

Thanks again for checking my math and your helpful insight.

 

[needsajet]

Sounds like you've thought it through very thoroughly, and I'm sure it will work well for you.

CFM is an odd unit of measure for pool plumbing. Maybe double check that. We don't hear much about SWCGs having trouble with the same flow as a heater.

Cutoff saw is great for cutting pipe - excellent square cuts and quick too. I still bevel the ends a tad on the outside so the square edge doesn't push glue. Not a big deal, just once or twice around with some 80 grit. But I'm OCD about PVC plumbing, lol

 

[setsailsoon]

Tex,

This installation looks fine to me. I assume you're planning to have the PB or authorized rep do it for you. If not, and you plan to DIY it make sure you read the fine print on warranty which will mean you don't have one after a very short period of time.

Chris

 

[TexEdmond]

CFM is an odd unit of measure for pool plumbing. Maybe double check that. We don't hear much about SWCGs having trouble with the same flow as a heater.

I see. It'd sure make things a bit easier for sure and 12 fewer glue joints and 1 fewer ball joint to fail in the future. Considering your suggestions helped me to better understand the original build and what adjustment I might need at a later date, and I believe I can make it work just fine keeping the existing 3 way and adding one more as a true heater bypass that'll still allow chlorination. Later on down the road (if my electronics will allow it) I can automate that valve to bypass heat and chlorine both and it'll run the floor cleaners very efficiently, then when pool mode kicks back on it'll continue chlorinating. If I have SWCG issues with too many GPMs I can just feather it open a smidge.

I still bevel the ends a tad on the outside so the square edge doesn't push glue.

Great pointer. Will do!

I'm OCD about PVC plumbing

I like the cut of your jib.

This installation looks fine to me. I assume you're planning to have the PB or authorized rep do it for you. If not, and you plan to DIY it make sure you read the fine print on warranty which will mean you don't have one after a very short period of time.

Thanks for the compliment. Our pool is only 3 years old but the builder has told me since I'm the second owner they won't honor any warranty whatsoever. They also are a Pentair dealer that refuses to sell or install any SWCG kit. Plus they said they are already scheduled 6 months out on construction. They do very high end landscapings and installs, sell only the premier robots, and stock extremely expensive purple lidded chemicals. The only other local pool company that'll even answer the phone I've asked to come help me diagnose this suction side air leak twice now, and they've come out, poked at a few things, changed a seal or two, charged me $150 each visit, and there's still bubbles in my pump basket. With as busy as everything is these days, and the shortage of equipment, I'd be concerned that this small of a job might not get scheduled until this fall or later. That's how we found TFP anyway, it's just easier and cheaper for me in the long run to do this on my own. Even if I brick this one on the first try I'll almost certainly be able to just buy another for what I'm saving on labor alone. I'm fine not having a warranty, and I'm taking my time here to research and get good advice. I believe it'll end up just fine in the long run. Or maybe it's just me being so beat down after the move, selling our old house, buying this one, dealing with all the deferred maintenance from the previous owners, inspections, upgrades, building my workshop in the garage, ice storm, I'm just in that zone of, "Ehh, it's just money... let's buy gadgets for the pool! Weeeeeee!"

 

[TexEdmond]

I had family in town last week and am grateful for the comments here and the opportunity to reevaluate my needs for this install. You folks make me look like a motherflippin rockstar hosting my brother and his kids who stopped for a 2 day pool party on their way through town. This really is a trouble free method for maintaining my pool. To my issue in this thread: I'm certain my original drawing on the whiteboard is overkill. I've also read a bunch more planning threads here, and that has helped me look at this install more comprehensively. I'm glad to have read the articles and posts on "you don't have to run your pump 24/7 or even turn over the entire pool volume every day" threads. I just need to generate enough chlorine to keep my FC in the correct CYA zone and skim the surface and floor. The robot is helping a TON keeping the leaf catcher and skimmer baskets cleaner. I washed out my filter cartridges and found significantly less large material in the folds of the filter.

I put an automated actuator on the valve at the filter output this afternoon. This allows me to fine-tune with automation the level of bypass straight to the floor cleaners. I still think it's wise to add another 3 way to bypass the heater without losing the ability to chlorinate. Will post photos and more descriptions later.

 

[nobody291]

The only other local pool company that'll even answer the phone I've asked to come help me diagnose this suction side air leak twice now, and they've come out, poked at a few things, changed a seal or two, charged me $150 each visit, and there's still bubbles in my pump basket. With as busy as everything is these days, and the shortage of equipment, I'd be concerned that this small of a job might not get scheduled until this fall or later

When I started planning my SWCG project, I planned to hire someone to do it too. But, I ran into the same problem as you, and never even received an install quote from a pool company. So, I did it myself, and am happy I did. One benefit of doing it yourself is that you can make it exactly how you want it. Any pool company guy is going to be in a hurry and make most decisions based on what will get him out of there fastest.

I'm taking my time here to research and get good advice.

Definitely do that...I asked a million questions here along the way, and am very happy with the result.

 

[TexEdmond]

Here's today's progress.

 

[TexEdmond]

I did it myself, and am happy I did. One benefit of doing it yourself is that you can make it exactly how you want it.

I feel exactly the same way. I can't help but think I just did a couple days work and saved at least a thousand bucks in labor. For what it's worth I'm pretty handy, I understand electricity, plumbing basics, and I live outside any city / county that requires permits or inspections. I wouldn't encourage anyone to break the law.

I brought the pool to SLAM levels (24ppm FC @ 60ppm CYA) yesterday before I started the install. I got unlucky late in the afternoon when I realized the union to the heater was a special part and nobody in town had it. I ordered 2 new replacements that'll be here Monday, but this morning I also went and bought one of those 2" PVC reamer bits and cleaned out the old one from the pool. It'll pay for itself the first time I need to reuse a 3 way valve or move a backflow preventer, so what the heck. Everything is together and I'm not seeing any leaks after it running for a few hours at 2200rpm, so if I have any issues I'll pull it apart and replumb with the new parts next week. So now I've got that part and it'll allow me to save some of the more expensive parts if I want to move anything around in the future. I did get lucky, there's plenty of flow thru the heater / SWG / both for the floor cleaners to pop up, so I don't need that automated valve actuator for changing to floor cleaner mode. I also don't have to redo the plumbing to clear the added height of the motor housing / handle. I'll install that actuator so we can have an automated lighted fountain effect, as well as automatic extreme aeration if I ever get into an alkalinity problem again down the road.

Thanks to the pool math calculator, I figured it'd take about 16 bags of salt. I dumped 8 in last week and 8 in today, brushed, and let the floor cleaners distribute for an hour or so before installing the salt cell. I know it says somewhere in the manual to wait 24 hours, but ... WE WANT TO SWIM TODAY! Aqua Check Test strip said 3180ppm, and the IC60 reported 3200ppm on its first scan today. Pretty accurate calibration.

Wired it up per the manual and instructions here, and BOOYAH.



Here's the finished product:



The only gripe? The pool is still at 17ppm FC and I need to see if that's actually safe to swim. Otherwise I think I'm gonna have to pee a lot in the pool to get it down to a safe level...

 

[mknauss]

The pool is still at 17ppm FC and I need to see if that's actually safe to swim.

Your last reported CYA was 60 ppm. Safe to swim up to SLAM level FC, or 24 ppm.

 

[TexEdmond]

Your last reported CYA was 60 ppm. Safe to swim up to SLAM level FC, or 24 ppm.

 

[TexEdmond]

Safe to swim up to SLAM level FC, or 24 ppm.

Does the same rule apply for pool robots?

 

[mknauss]

Does the same rule apply for pool robots?

Yes. Though we do recommend you remove them and wash them down with fresh water after use at SLAM levels.