Went through pool school - waste

[HermanTX]

@ciaka Just remember Rome was not built in a day. No need to rush. With colder temperatures and less sun, you are not burning much Chlorine. Therefore your need for CYA is not critical but agree it needs to move higher. Your TA will come down gradually over time due to your continued use of MA. Your need for MA is more driven by the new plaster as it continues to cure. So that will happen at its own pace. Just keep testing daily. Focus on just 3 tests - pH, FC/CC and TA for now. Your CH and CYA are stable unless you add fill water (assuming it has high Calcium) and it will take a while using pucks to add CYA level to record a measurable increase. Remember we measure CYA in units of 10 so you are at 20 now.

 

[ciaka]

Yeah, I know. I'm one of those 'everything gotta be perfect' types i guess.
I will keep testing daily though. Seeing some TA come down a bit, from 225 to 175, so its moving.

 

[ciaka]

Just a quick update, so far so good. No service folks around and things seem to be holding well.
I recently reduced my vs pump schedule from 12 hr a day, at 2750 rpm, to 8 hr a day, 2750 for 3 hrs, 2000 for 5 hours.
Wayer still clear. But what I noticed was that my polaris vrx picked up much more dirt off the bottom. Stuff it picked up was sand, some in color of the plaster, while other stuff sand looking. Not much any other debris.
Skimmers, too, did not have much dirt, some finer dirt that must have blown onto water (had very strong winds on area last 4 days). Maybe one spider and thats all. No debris or dirt in pump or plumbing filters at all.

Have been doing some aeration to manage pH and TA.
My test results from today:
FC: 4.5 ppm
CC: 0.0 ppm
pH: 7.7
TA: 100 ppm
CH: 300 ppm
CYA: 26 (my test shows dot not disappearing, but took water to leslies, whose test showed 26, so I chose to go with that....its for sure less than 30, which is the lowest number on the test block grading). They used soe new machine named blue chroma or something. Used syringe to put water into a circular insert they placed into machine. Machine gave readout within a minute. Wonder if I can trust their readings.
I assume I will let CYA rise to about 30-35. Just inserted additional 3 trichlor tabs, set to #3. My tabs use will end once I reach my CYA levels. Then off to using strictly liquid chlorine and MA.
The pool service agreed to let me do all treatments, dropped off 4 jugs of liquid chlorine 12.5%, and 4 jugs of MA 31.45%. Told me let them know when I need something.
Since then, ran out of MA, and 3/4 through chlorine. Asked them to drop off more MA, but guess what. They said they won't, that their months worth of service is 4 jugs of MA and chlorine.
What BS. If my pool needs it, it needs it. No I know they are some useless service. Way to go screwing me at start, then screwing me in the middle and the end. Glad they are not involved for sure.

I have my pool math logs visible too for reference.
Summarizing, aiming for CYA 30-35, TA as is now 100, CH as is now at 300, pH at 7.4-7.8, FC at 4.0-4.5, CC at 0.
I wonder if increasing rpm for pump (higher rom extra hour) wl help keep less grit in pool.

 

[duraleigh]

Wonder if I can trust their readings.

No, you cannot. Read over and over and over on this forum about just how useless pool store test are, whether they call it "blue chroma" or red or green or striped chroma it will never be as trustworthy as your own careful results.

Redo your own CYA test and, if it your result is zero, calculate a dosage of 30 ppm CYA and put it in your pool.

I'm one of those 'everything gotta be perfect' types i guess.

Then the last thing you should be doing is going into the pool store and relying on their testing.

Secondly, you apparently overlooked some good info in HermanTX post #141. Reread his post again.......it has really good advice.

Stay out of the pool store and rely on your own testing.

 

[ciaka]

Lol. Never dealt with pool stores before. Could they really be this useless? I am surprised at the level of negativity folks have about them.
So far you folks on here gave great advice and I thank you for it. I am following it too. I am just surprised how little pool stores are trusted, and how they manage to stay in business with opinions like that.

 

[Dirk]

how they manage to stay in business

Pool store "advice" and test results are tailored to selling you things you don't actually need. That's how they manage to stay in business!

Some are more honest than others, but even the best ones are quick to offer up a magic potion of expensive chemicals, supported by their "high tech" test results printout, that offer little to no benefit for your pool. And just as often actually hurt your pool over time (like algicide products with metal in them).

Then there is the problem of testing consistency. How many employees do they have? Are they well trained? How many different ways of testing do all those people have? When you do your own testing, using consistent, repeatable methods, then you can better rely on those test results. Test results reveal numbers on which you can calculate doses correctly. But they also reveal trends over time, which are just as important: "Why am I losing so much FC all the time." or "My CH is rising." Etc. Watching trends help you strategize your overall pool maintenance plan. You can't get trends from inconsistent testing. You can't get consistent testing unless you do it yourself, the same exact way each time.

That's just a couple of reasons. Guaranteed that if you start doubting your own test results and mix and match TFP advice with any others: pool store, pool guy, neighbor, whatever, you'll have trouble maintaining your pool.

I wanted to clarify some advice given by others recently.

Focus on just 3 tests - pH, FC/CC and TA for now. Your CH and CYA are stable unless you add fill water (assuming it has high Calcium) and it will take a while using pucks to add CYA level to record a measurable increase. Remember we measure CYA in units of 10 so you are at 20 now.

That's actually four tests, but who's counting! Those are the tests to concentrate on. Adding fill water will cause your CH to rise. That's inevitable and unavoidable if your fill water has CH in it (which it surely does, unless you fill from a water softener). But filling a pool won't affect your CYA level unless you are also losing water by other means than evaporation (like splash out or overflowing or backwashing a filter, etc). Neither CH or CYA evaporate, so they stay in your pool. CYA won't increase unless you add it. It won't decrease significantly unless you exchange water. It does degrade some over time, so you will be adding some each year, but not much.

If you've determined your target CYA to be 30-35, then don't dose your pool with 30ppm of CYA, as you'll likely overshoot your target. You have some CYA in your pool, and it may be just shy of what is readable on your CYA test. So it is not zero. It could be 20, as Herman points out. Adding 30 now might put you at 50! If you have kept track of how many pucks you've put in your pool, you can calculate how much CYA you have. (You can only get away with that with a new pool, because a new pool starts with zero CYA.)

Keep doing what you're doing with the pucks. As Herman pointed out, you've got some CYA, and it's cold out and your FC is holding just fine. So keep creeping up on your CYA 30 goal and eventually it'll start showing up on your CYA test.

All your other numbers look great.

 

[ajw22]

We round all CYA readings up. If the dot disappears between 30 and 20 we call it 30. So you already have achieved CYA 30 for TFP purposes and for using the FC/CYA Levels.

There is little to be gained by raising CYA by another 10 ppm this time of year, in the winter. Come March when the weather is warming and the days are getting longer THEN you want to raise your CYA to 70-80 for running your SWG in the Texas summers.

 

[Dirk]

We round all CYA readings up. If the dot disappears between 30 and 20 we call it 30. So you already have achieved CYA 30 for TFP purposes and for using the FC/CYA Levels.

There is little to be gained by raising CYA by another 10 ppm this time of year, in the winter. Come March when the weather is warming and the days are getting longer THEN you want to raise your CYA to 70-80 for running your SWG in the Texas summers.

I don't think the OP has determined yet how much CYA he has... He's not getting a result from his CYA test yet, and hasn't responded with the number of pucks he's used...

 

[ajw22]

I don't think the OP has determined yet how much CYA he has... He's not getting a result from his CYA test yet, and hasn't responded with the number of pucks he's used...

I would not sweat it and call the Leslie test of 26, 30, which is good enough for the winter.

 

[duraleigh]

I am surprised at the level of negativity folks have about them.
So far you folks on here gave great advice and I thank you for it. I am following it too. I am just surprised how little pool stores are trusted

It has nothing to do with personal opinions. This forum has almost 14 years of reports that indicate you should not trust a pool store. You then absorb that info and make your own decisions......managing your pool based on what seems best for you.

 

[setsailsoon]

My experience is the same as Dave's. There are a few good people at some of the stores but a new pool owner doesn't know good from bad until it's too late. I've heard downright stupid advice many times... future TFP members after they spend big $$$$ and still have a messed up pool.

 

[Mdragger88]

relying on poolstore testing even as frequently as once a week is also quite impractical considering as soon as you add whatever they suggested (based on your hour or more old water sample) your chemistry will change but you’re likely not going to turn around & go right back to confirm this so you ride all week long or more assuming you have “balanced everything” then when u get there next week it’s all out of whack again & the process repeats itself. When in reality if you could test your own parameters in the moment you would know what was happening & if it were accurate dosing, results etc.
It’s not necessarily that they (ps) are all “evil” just that they give recommendations based on the sample u provide at that moment in time & whatever the readout says- they aren’t at your house looking @ your water condition either.
they also give advice based on the fact that most people expect & will pay for a magic potion/quick fix so they attempt to give it to them whether it will work or not.
Unfortunately many people will settle for green to blue instead of always clear as they think it is acceptable.

 

[ciaka]

I understand folks having varied experiences at these stores. Kind of like Walmart of pool supplies I guess.
I am a diy person and enjoyed learning from here. Dont want to give folks impression I am defending pool stores. I could care less either way as long as results are accurate.
I am still new to pool owning and maintenance, so I have to trust others. There are some on here that have given me great info, that came in very handy, when my PB and pool service shops abandoned me for nearly 2 weeks with zero support or assistance, just as pool was getting filled.
Had to learn quick, but now I do know enough to survive. Trying to learn about other things now, like how to spot signs of potential problems. And some proactive stuff now.
I know you have 14 years experience, etc. But as a total green guy, forum folks tell me they got 14 years experience, store tells me they have decades of experience. So you don't know who to trust at first. Nothing against you or the store.
You are correct though, I choose what to do, and I have done so already.

Many great thanks to those who pointed me in the right direction. Your kind advice is very much appreciated.

My water seems to be doing fine, still trying to bring up cya slowly. I assume a good level is what? 30? 40? I think 60 is max (in Pool Math) of the range. So I don't want to be at the max, unless there is a good reason for it.

 

[Dirk]

30 is fine. The Nature2 is part SWG? I'm not up to speed on that. If that's the case, then when you fire that up in the Spring you'd up your CYA to 70. For either scenario, if you feel your FC is dropping too fast between tests, you can try another notch up on the CYA scale to see if that helps (40/80).

The more CYA you have, the higher your FC level will need to be. So I'm with you, if it works at the lower end of the range, that's all you need.

You learn over time what your pool needs. In the meantime, perhaps someone from Austin can weigh in on what works for them in their pool...

 

[bmoreswim]

One great difference that helps new folks decide who they will trust, is that at the pool store you have their word that they've given awesome advice to X thousands of folks over the last X number of decades but have no way to corroborate it. Here you have our word that we've given awesome advice to hundreds of thousands of folks over more than a decade, and have many tens of thousands of documented testimonials from the folks having received our advice. I think that is a very helpful difference that helps folks decide who to choose for their pool resource.

The other big difference is that pool stores sell (and hopefully try to provide good answers). We educate.

 

[Mdragger88]

@Dirk nature 2 fusion op has listed is a combo puck & mineral cartridge feeder although there is one called nature 2 fusion soft that is a combo swg/ mineral feeder. Maybe @ciaka can clarify which version she/he has & update signature if necessary. For now Stick w/ the chlorine side of the FC/CYA Levels & around 30 cya is definitely good for the winter while manually chlorinating. After u reach that kill the feeder switch to liquid chlorine. You will likely need to increase up to 50 or 60 in the heat of the summer or higher as mentioned above if u have the swg version -nature2fusion Soft.
Here’s some good info on how to handle your mineral system:

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You’re getting the hang of it We’re all here rooting u on in the hopes that you have a truly enjoyable trouble free pool for years to come

 

[Newdude]

The other big difference is that pool stores sell (and hopefully try to provide good answers). We educate.

^^^^^^^^^^ This. This is the key. Nobody here has anything to gain except the warm and fuzzy feeling for helping another pool enthusiast. And if I may say, we are a warm and friendly bunch who will teach you all that you need to make your own educated choices for your own pool.

 

[Dirk]

One great difference that helps new folks decide who they will trust

There's another huge difference! Most pool stores have a staff. Some of them might have been around for a while. But the majority of the staff would likely not have been around for as long as they claim the store has been. In fact, you're as likely as not to be helped by someone that was hired for the summer! And I wonder how many of the staff actually own a pool!

By contrast, many of the experts here, for the most part all pool owners themselves, have been around for years and years. For example, one who has been helping you is the founder of TFP!! Still here, still active, still helping folks. And TFP publishes the experience of the people helping you, in each of their posts: when they started here, how many posts they've contributed, along with their "credentials." You never know who's helping you at a pool store!

 

[ciaka]

Nature2 us part if the chlorinator. It has two things going into it.
1. Trichlor tabs compartment.
2. Copper/silver cartridge which PB was saying, helps with keeping water cleaner.
I took the copper cartridge out and the only thing I am using there is the tabs, so I can add chlorine, plus build up cya. When my cya level tops out at whatever is good for me (I am guessing about 35 max), I will no longer use the tabs, and will only use liquid chlorine, til cya drops (not sure how that can happen on its own).

30 is fine. The Nature2 is part SWG? ...

 

[ciaka]

Lol. I love the PC touch.
Red blooded male here. Born and raised on 70s/80s culture, movies, etc. I have no need for safe spaces to hug pets. Lol.

@Dirk ... Maybe @ciaka can clarify which version she/he has & update signature if necessary.