Is the pool guy correct?

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ABQ_Pool

ABQ_Pool

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LifeTime Supporter
Jan 31, 2011
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Chandler, AZ
I’d like to get an opinion on my situation. My pool specs are:

14k plaster pool - Stonescapes MiniPebble plaster (re-plastered in 2015)
Filter: Pentair 145322 Sand Dollar Top-Mount Pool Filter, SD 60 2.3-Square-Feet Filtration Area, 60-GPM Flow (installed 9/2018, previous filter Hayward Micro Clear DE Filter DE-3600)
Pump: Hayward SP2300VSP Max-Flo VS Variable-Speed Pool Pump (I think maybe 8-12 years old?) I replaced the impeller on it 6 months ago
Chlorinator: Hayward AQR15 Goldline AquaRite – T-Cell 15 (up to 40k gallons) salt system
Pool cleaner: The Pool Cleaner, 2 wheel (purchased 2019)
Only “feature” is a aerator nozzle

I had the sand filter installed in 9/2018 since the DE filter that came with the house was getting old (the netting was getting holes). I switched to sand to decrease the maintenance.
My issue, which I had prior to installing the sand filter, is that my pool cleaner will only successfully operate (suction / speed wise) for about 20 minutes then slowly wind down. What I typically do is backwash the filter x 60 seconds, rinse x 60 seconds, then set back to clean. I set the pump to around 2500-2900 rpm, then I switch the valve to ~75% open to the cleaner. The cleaner will start to operate and run normally for about 15-20 minutes, and then it starts to slow down more and more until its almost at a standstill at around the 30-40 min mark. I have the following notes on my recent cleaning experience:

Time: 12:00
· Pump speed: 2500 rpm
· Filter pressure: 10 psi
· One full rotation of Pool cleaner tread: 11seconds
Time 12:15
· Pump speed: 2500 rpm
· Filter pressure: 12 psi
· One full rotation of Pool cleaner tread: 12 seconds
Time 12:30
· Pump speed: 2500 rpm
· Filter pressure: 14 psi
· One full rotation of Pool cleaner tread: 15 seconds
The cleaner just gets slower and slower and then it just stops moving. If I backwash again, it starts out strong and then goes through the same cycle.

I had a pool guy out to help me troubleshoot. He thinks that it could be the pump or the filter, but he’s leaning towards the filter being the problem. He says my pump is not strong enough to pump water through the filter. Since I just got the new filter, I asked if I should get a new pump and he said, if you get one of the newer variable speed pumps it could crack the sand pump wide open. He thinks that since I bought the filter off the internet that its of low quality and also suspects that the filter pressure gauge isn’t accurate. I bought the filter brand new off the internet from a pool equipment store. After he had a look, he recommended buying both a new pump and a new filter (cartridge this time) and to match them for the best performance.

My questions:
Should the pump be able to generate enough head to run the sand filter?
Any ideas on why I’m having to constantly backwash in order to keep the flow through my system?
If the pump is the culprit, any suggestions for a replacement for my pool setup?
 

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abq,

At first glance, I stand by my original comments...

If I understand correctly, your pool cleaner did not work well with you DE filter, so you installed a sand filter and your cleaner still has the same issue?

That does not sound like a pump or filter problem to me... If backwashing makes the cleaner run, it makes more sense to me that you have a chemical issue... You filter is just doing its job of collecting the junk and what that does is reduce the water flow to the cleaner.

It certainly could be something else, but the first thing we need from you is your test data...

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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What's the house of the pump

What kind of sand?

This is a sorta advanced move so let me know if your up to it.

Put filter on recirculate, not the pressure, slowly close the return valves so you end up closing all the returns and dead head the pump, note max pressure, slowly open a return valve and put everything back to normal. Don't run the pump longer than a few seconds dead headed, if you don't think you can physically do that don't do it.
 
From your profile I see nothing wrong with your equipment. You have a nice sized filter, a good pump (that's already a VS), and an swcg. Nothing about any of that says that you need to change any of it.

One thing that I question is why are you running the pump at 2500 RPM, and setting the valve to the cleaner at 75% when vacuuming? Hopefully it's from the cleaner setup instructions.
I'd be playing with the speed and/or the valve opening when the cleaner starts slowing down.

Having said all that. I agree with those above that say you likely have a chemistry problem.
How did you get the test results that you posted?
 
Thanks for the replies -
cfherrman: Sand is "hth pool filter sand". I'm not sure what you mean by "whats the house of the pump" - could you clarify for me?

Bama Rambler: I turn the valve to 75% open as that's usually the amount of suction needed to get the wheels turning on the pool cleaner to operate in the "green zone" (not too fast, not too slow). I guess my issue is that where ever I rotate the valve to (even to 100% open from cleaner line and 0% flow from drain/skimmer) the amount of suction generated to the cleaner starts to degrade at the 20 minute mark.

Test results are from the most trusted source, the TF-100. (y)
 

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And I'll attempt the advanced move tonight - I've never twisted the valve to occlude the line going towards the pump as I didn't think that was possible to do.

I'm still not able to connect how the chemistry is causing a flow/suction issue to the cleaner - can I get a "explain it to me like I'm 5" answer?
 
If you have a chemistry issue, that typically lends itself to plugging of your filter. When your filter plugs, the flow rate falls. Your filter pressure is rising. Then you backwash and the filter pressure falls, and the flow rate increases.
 
abq,

While your numbers look good, I still can't think of anything that would cause your filter to slow water flow over time, except algae.

Put your multiport valve into the recirculate position and see if the cleaner slows down..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
abq

The real key here why are you still using 1960's technology to clean your pool... :mrgreen:

Those of us with robots don't ever have to worry about how much suction the pool cleaner needs.. :stirpot:

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
A lot of stuff sits on bottom that the skimmer never pucks up, you could run your pump for years it and it won't plug, then throw in your cleaner getting that stuff then it plugs your filter.

Before you dead head your pump.

Run cleaner in recirculate as Jim said, see if it does it, that takes out the picture of the filter plugging and chemistry issues.

Report back the max psi you have ever seen, 14 sounds like very low to me

Turn pump off and work all your valves to make sure they work, run the scheme a few times to make sure you can do it, a deadhead is fine for the pump and motor but it will heat up the water inside the pump and can cause damage.

Get a robot! Sorry had to say it they are awesome
 
Sounds like you're doing things right, so it's most likely that your cleaner is picking up a lot of small debris.

Presumably your pressure gauge on the filter goes up as he cleaner slows down. It doesn't take a lot of filter pressure increase to slow down the cleaner.
 
Thanks all for the replies. I turned the pump on ~2700 rpm and switched the filter to recirculate and left it for the day. Just got home and its still happily running around the pool.

I tried to deadhead the pump but I have a 3 way valve that doesn't let me close the opening towards the pump.

Max PSI i've ever seen on this filter...maybe 24 or 26.

I do have an inline basket on my pool cleaner to pick up the larger items before they head back to the pump.

Would love to get a robot, just never pulled the trigger due to the cost.
 
So your filter is doing its job. Filtering out stuff. Now you need to kill the stuff (algae).
 
Well the pump is doing its job, right? The filter is on recirculate which I believe means its being bypassed. If I turn it back to clean it'll go back to 20 mins or so of suction through the cleaner and then start slowing down.
 
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