Test kit or no test kit?

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enzeee

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Jun 13, 2018
7
Granada Hills
Hi Laurie,

I've been around the pool industry for almost my entire life. These are just a few things I've picked up along the way:

-Salt cells tend to last anywhere from 4-5 years (From what you mentioned, it seems like it might be time to replace that one unfortunately)
-Never trust the reading given by the salt system
-No need for an overly expensive test kit like the k-2006 (Most pool professionals don't use these kits and I don't either)

As far as your chemicals,
-Cyanuric acid is low (should be around the 60-80 range)
-Chlorine level is also low (manually add a gallon or two of chlorine to prevent it from algae blooms and turning green or cloudy)
-pH isn't bad, but your pool is vinyl so no need for acid to be used

Regardless, the cell should be tested.

MOD note: This set of posts were removed from another thread.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

enzeee said:
Hi Laurie,

I've been around the pool industry for almost my entire life. These are just a few things I've picked up along the way:

-Salt cells tend to last anywhere from 4-5 years (From what you mentioned, it seems like it might be time to replace that one unfortunately)
-Never trust the reading given by the salt system
-No need for an overly expensive test kit like the k-2006 (Most pool professionals don't use these kits and I don't either)

As far as your chemicals,
-Cyanuric acid is low (should be around the 60-80 range)
-Chlorine level is also low (manually add a gallon or two of chlorine to prevent it from algae blooms and turning green or cloudy)
-pH isn't bad, but your pool is vinyl so no need for acid to be used

Regardless, the cell should be tested.
Click to expand...


E,

So tell us why you think it is not necessary for a pool owner to have an accurate test kit. We are all about testing to determine what needs to be added (or not added) to a pool to keep the water balanced. How do you propose to do it without testing?

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

enzeee said:
Hi Laurie,

I've been around the pool industry for almost my entire life. These are just a few things I've picked up along the way:

-Salt cells tend to last anywhere from 4-5 years (From what you mentioned, it seems like it might be time to replace that one unfortunately)
-Never trust the reading given by the salt system
-No need for an overly expensive test kit like the k-2006 (Most pool professionals don't use these kits and I don't either)

As far as your chemicals,
-Cyanuric acid is low (should be around the 60-80 range)
-Chlorine level is also low (manually add a gallon or two of chlorine to prevent it from algae blooms and turning green or cloudy)
-pH isn't bad, but your pool is vinyl so no need for acid to be used

Regardless, the cell should be tested.
Click to expand...

A FAS/DPD is most certainly required to properly maintain sanitation. With a CYA of 80ppm, the target FC should be 6ppm. How do you plan to measure that with a FC test that only goes to 5ppm?

Simply adding a gallon or two of chlorine is not the answer to pool sanitation. You don’t even take into consideration the strength (sodium hypochlorite %). Two jugs of 6% bleach is less than half the FC of two gallons of 12.5% bleach.

Continuously maintaining the proper FC/CYA ratio is key to a sanitary pool.

Acid is always used to lower pH, regardless of pool material.

The current pH of 7.6 is just fine.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

enzeee said:
-No need for an overly expensive test kit like the k-2006 (Most pool professionals don't use these kits and I don't either)
Click to expand...

TFP teaches a method of pool care for homeowners based on accurate test results and adding only what is needed.

Our water quality standards are far higher for our personal pools than any pool service company will have. I might only consider them to be "professionals" in the strict sense that they are paid, but often the chemistry knowledge appears to be more amateurish ;)
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

domct203 said:
A FAS/DPD is most certainly required to properly maintain sanitation. With a CYA of 80ppm, the target FC should be 6ppm. How do you plan to measure that with a FC test that only goes to 5ppm?

Simply adding a gallon or two of chlorine is not the answer to pool sanitation. You don’t even take into consideration the strength (sodium hypochlorite %). Two jugs of 6% bleach is less than half the FC of two gallons of 12.5% bleach.

Continuously maintaining the proper FC/CYA ratio is key to a sanitary pool.

Acid is always used to lower pH, regardless of pool material.

The current pH of 7.6 is just fine.
Click to expand...

No professional calls it bleach. The majority of the chlorine sold at pool supply stores (Not big box stores like Home Depot, Costco, etc.) carry chlorine with a level of 12.5%. the chlorine in the jugs actually comes out at a higher percentage when poured at the factory but since chlorine is a gas, it dissipates over time.

No one denied that acid isn't used to lower pH, but take a painted pool and add acid. You'll destroy the paint. Similar situation with vinyl pools, if you use acid, you'll damage the vinyl.

I think you might've misunderstood what I meant. Very few poolman (even the professionals) use taylor test kits because they're ridiculously expensive and often come with a lot of things that you don't need to test for constantly. If you want to spend 1 hour testing and trying to be as accurate as possible for the same results then be my guest no one is stopping you.

If anything, she shouldn't even use liquid chlorine, she should stick to dichlor in order to raise her Cyanuric acid level and her chlorine simultaneously.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

jblizzle said:
TFP teaches a method of pool care for homeowners based on accurate test results and adding only what is needed.

Our water quality standards are far higher for our personal pools than any pool service company will have. I might only consider them to be "professionals" in the strict sense that they are paid, but often the chemistry knowledge appears to be more amateurish ;)
Click to expand...

The test kit isn't what makes the professional. You can easily get by without having a $50 test kit.

Look, I'm just speaking from experience and I've never had a pool go green. But I don't spend all my time testing the pool water. You can add a little extra chlorine and nothing will happen. (Obviously if you add too much you'll need a neutralizer or just rinse off after)

All I did in that previous post was give her a little summary of what she should do. Most of you would agree that she should raise her chlorine and her cyanuric acid levels (She should focus on the cyanuric acid first to protect the chlorine from the sun) right?
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

Jimrahbe said:
E,

So tell us why you think it is not necessary for a pool owner to have an accurate test kit. We are all about testing to determine what needs to be added (or not added) to a pool to keep the water balanced. How do you propose to do it without testing?

Thanks,

Jim R.
Click to expand...

I'm for testing your pool water and understanding what needs to be added. I never said that she shouldn't use a test kit at all. My point is, she doesn't need to purchase a $50 test kit to check for chlorine levels. I can easily purchase separate test kits and it'll come out to be a lot cheaper than the taylor k-2006. Yes, I definitely agree that you'll have much more accurate measurements, however, I can do the same job without that one. I've taught a lot of customers how to measure and check their pool water with a simple test kit and they haven't had any problems with their pool. Can you explain to me why I should tell them to buy a test kit that measures a lot of things that they won't have to measure for?

There isn't much maintenance for a pool. Only when there are abnormalities then one should check for other things like alkalinity, tds, hardness, phosphate, conditioner, etc. Even then, you can easily take it to a leslie's or another pool supply store and they'll do a free water test.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

Welcome to TFP!

It's quite simple: what we teach is based on verifiable science and accurate testing. What you are trying to tell people is based on nothing but industry dogma.

You are going to find that very little of what you think is true is, and if you want to claim otherwise it will take more than "that's the way I have done it for years". While we would absolutely love for you to be a part of the forum, we have seen too many industry members that are only here to tell everyone how it should really be done. They rarely last more than a few posts. Learning new things is something that can't be done when you already have all the answers, unfortunately. And most people from the industry have known it all for years and aren't afraid to tell you so.

Regardless, I thank you for visiting and wish you the best.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

enzeee said:
I think you might've misunderstood what I meant. Very few poolman (even the professionals) use taylor test kits because they're ridiculously expensive and often come with a lot of things that you don't need to test for constantly. If you want to spend 1 hour testing and trying to be as accurate as possible for the same results then be my guest no one is stopping you.
.
Click to expand...

My pool guy from a local pool company carries a complete Taylor test kit. He can run through a full set of tests in 5 to 10 minutes. I guess that is why I think he is worth paying for weekly visits so that my pool gets attention even if i am traveling or busy. We have discussed how I like to maintain the pool and he checks with me before adding any chemicals other then MA.

I have fired other pool guys who were not professionals. I would not let a pool professional near my pool if he did not have the proper tools - a Taylor test kit or the equivalent.
 

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Re: Test kit or no test kit?

ajw22 said:
My pool guy from a local pool company carries a complete Taylor test kit. He can run through a full set of tests in 5 to 10 minutes. I guess that is why I think he is worth paying for weekly visits so that my pool gets attention even if i am traveling or busy. We have discussed how I like to maintain the pool and he checks with me before adding any chemicals other then MA.

I have fired other pool guys who were not professionals. I would not let a pool professional near my pool if he did not have the proper tools - a Taylor test kit or the equivalent.
Click to expand...

Most companies do not do this. When you have over 20 pools to maintain that day, 5-10 minutes extra at each pool is a lot of time. Also, most companies do inform the client about adding conditioner or even doing phosphate treatments. I noticed your pool is a salt pool as well, so not much to do.

He can even toss in a PoolRX to ease things up if need be.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

Sorry, just passin' through again. A staggering display if there ever was one. Too fun to watch...
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

Donldson said:
Welcome to TFP!

It's quite simple: what we teach is based on verifiable science and accurate testing. What you are trying to tell people is based on nothing but industry dogma.

You are going to find that very little of what you think is true is, and if you want to claim otherwise it will take more than "that's the way I have done it for years". While we would absolutely love for you to be a part of the forum, we have seen too many industry members that are only here to tell everyone how it should really be done. They rarely last more than a few posts. Learning new things is something that can't be done when you already have all the answers, unfortunately. And most people from the industry have known it all for years and aren't afraid to tell you so.

Regardless, I thank you for visiting and wish you the best.
Click to expand...

I have never claimed that I know all the answers. I don't have anything against anyone and I'm here to learn just as much, but if you firmly believe that having an expensive test kit makes you a professional then I don't really know how to respond to that. I don't have a pride aspect to this if that's what you're thinking. However, I do have experience working with pools (In ground mainly). It's rather interesting that you're quick to claim I'm not willing to learn anything since you don't actually know me.

How about we all be respectful here and not use passive aggressive remarks?

Can you tell me which part of what I have stated is false?
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

No need to know you, you are saying more than enough. To state that quantity over quality in testing is a positive thing, but that it is ok because you can just hide it with copper? Who cares if the clients pool gets stained, that's just more they will pay you to fix, right? Yeah, you are exactly what I have come to expect from years of pool industry training.

I have no need or desire to treat your ideas with any more respect than they deserve. If you share them here they will be corrected. Every. Single. Time.

If you want to know what statements you have made are false, start with Pool School. I'm not wasting my time.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

Enzeee, how are you testing the water? Are you testing the water? I personally have the Taylor K-2006C and find it to be excellent so that my pool water is very well balanced (the TFT kit is similar, but I REALLY did want the box with the Taylor). I manage my own pool and find that I perform testing every 3 days because I over-chlorinate (~8ppm) then expect a decline (to ~3ppm) and repeat. These days I usually test when we cook out and everyone is wanting to swim or just after. I enjoy the testing, but now resist performing all tests each time, so that I perform FC/CC/pH tests only and will do the other tests once a month or two or after a major weather event.

On nomenclature, the fact the pool industry does not call it sodium hypochlorite or bleach is in my opinion a disconnect with reality to capture sales. What does the industry call it - "liquid chlorine"? Now while there are may forms of "bleach", the most common form is sodium hypochlorite and the name "bleach", because it is a bleaching agent, has stuck. It is not "liquid chlorine", liquid chlorine is that which is stored in compression as chlorine gas, the chlorine used in "bleach" or "liquid chlorine" is not chlorine gas - it is sodium hypochlorite solution, whether 1%, 6%, or 12%. "Bleach" is the readily associated general term for sodium hypochlorite in aqueous solution.

As far as I am concerned, and as a STEM Ph.D., with a B.Sc. in Chemistry, I am completely with TFP. In the past I had not considered my pool at all and left it to pool store testing and strips, and in my opinion, my pool store was good. However, I always left at the start of the season with shock, pucks, algaecide, clarifier and maybe a couple of other chemicals. Now I have given consideration and initial time to the pool, I find that I did not need any of those at all. I will add also that whenever I did get water testing done at the store, it was always a high school student. The pool is in better shape than it ever has been and it does not smell of chlorine at 3 ppm or 10 ppm.

My thoughts on pool professionals taking care of pools ... surely a decent test kit is needed? Perhaps the testing does not need to be done as frequently as a homeowner, because you might know the general decline rate of FC and so on, but you must test the water regularly? What do you use?

My opinion is that a contractor (pool professional) should use quality tools for the job, I would be very worried if someone showed up at my house with a chop, reciprocating, circular, or cheap table saw to do a job that I knew needed a quality table saw.
 
Re: Test kit or no test kit?

I can't help but think of the quote from MIB ....

Congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government pool industry training.

:mrgreen:
 
Re:  Test kit or no test kit?

enzeee said:
Most companies do not do this. When you have over 20 pools to maintain that day, 5-10 minutes extra at each pool is a lot of time. Also, most companies do inform the client about adding conditioner or even doing phosphate treatments. I noticed your pool is a salt pool as well, so not much to do.

He can even toss in a PoolRX to ease things up if need be.
Click to expand...

Lets look at this since you want to talk about the extra expense of a test kit not being worth it.
TF-100 is $70 plus ship from TFTestkits.net
this kit will last at least a season with normal use

Pool Conditioner (CYA? or algecide?) Polyquat 60 algaecide $29
Phosphate Treatments with Phosfree $28
PoolRx $62
these chems will need to be replaced during a season's use

We say a test kit is needed and we say that those 3 pool chemicals are definitely not needed if you do proper testing. So the $70 test kit is WAY less than your $90 in pool chemicals. I would guarantee that a home owner with their own test kit would have a significantly better looking pool water than a service that stops by once or twice a week. We have thousands of testimonials saying just that.


these are random selections that first popped up on a Google search.
 

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