New Construction: Cathedral City CA

Ahh - I wrote that in my log last Sunday - That's when I realized pMath had diverted be back to my chlorine pool AND why now I check each time to make sure I'm on the correct pool. I've considered deleting the chlorine pool, but a little voice keeps saying don't.

I've read here a few times that come winter, when you shut down the SWG for the cold season, you revert back to treating your pool as Non-SWG. That doesn't make sense to me, as the salt will still be in there. But I haven't gone through a winter yet with a saltwater pool. So come end of swim season, I'll visit that issue with the TFP experts.

Keep the chlorine pool data (as I have). We might need it come fall...
 
I've read here a few times that come winter, when you shut down the SWG for the cold season, you revert back to treating your pool as Non-SWG.

The salt is not the deciding factor. It is how you apply your chlorine. By SWCG, thus in small doses over a long time, or by liquid chlorine, all at once typically once per day.
 
Hi Marty, welcome home!

What's not clear to me, once I turn off my SWG next winter, do I still use the SWG FC/CYA table? Do I maintain CH and CYA and TA at SWG levels? Or Non-SWG levels? I'm guessing my pH-rise will go way down once the SWG is off, so I'll adjust MA doses accordingly. Just not sure about CH and CYA. Just leave those alone, wherever they stand, for the winter, then bring to SWG levels come SWG season?

So is it this, about the FC? Since there is no longer this constant, reliable level of FC without the SWG, then the FC level is more likely to swing around, up and down, based on how often you dose, which puts you at greater risk of dipping too low? So you keep FC level up, in the Non-SWG range, to give you the added buffer, room to wiggle?
 
I can tell you about my pool here in FL.... Once the temps start dipping down to the 60s and 50s then the FC use drops big time. I add FC about every 2 to 3 days depending on the sun amount those days. IF you get a lot of rain you will lose some CYA so keep that in mind as well.

You will use the FC/CYA no matter if you are using your SWG or liquid to maintain the FC.

Kim:kim:
 
I can tell you about my pool here in FL.... Once the temps start dipping down to the 60s and 50s then the FC use drops big time. I add FC about every 2 to 3 days depending on the sun amount those days. IF you get a lot of rain you will lose some CYA so keep that in mind as well.

You will use the FC/CYA no matter if you are using your SWG or liquid to maintain the FC.

Understood. But which FC/CYA when SWG is off? SWG or Non-SWG? Non, right?
 
I would use the non-SWG as there will not be a "constant" source of FC if the SWG is off. That is why the non-SWG is a little higher for the min. Knowing the FC add is once a day instead of while the pump is on.

York, I would not even consider closing with your temps. It is nice to be able to see the pool, it will be easy to maintain AFTER the leaf drop (can get a leaf net for that time if is will be a problem for your area), you can keep a good eye on it and will be SO easy to swim when it warms up!!!!

Kim:kim:
 
I get into the 20s here. Wouldn't consider closing. Pool looks too nice, all year-round. I expect snow would be the determining factor... though thankfully, I have no idea! ;)
 
Concrete stains. Our pool is about 2 months old. We used our deck jets on very limited occasions, yet we are already seeing some serious staining. Oddly two of the jets have minor staining - where the one furthest from the equipment pad the staining is much more pronounced.

IMG_2488.jpgIMG_2489.jpg
 

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I forgot to mention. The day they poured the concrete, it started to lightly sprinkle as they were in the final stages of the job. they said it was fine and covered everything with plastic sheets. The following days there was really bad "stains" the rep assured me that that was just part of the curing process, and if there was anything remaining after it fully cured, they would do an acid wash.

Well, most of the stains did go away, but there remains a slight modeling from the plastic. After all the advice TFP has given me about avoiding an acid wash for the stains in the pebble surface of the pool, I'm wondering if I should just live with the modeling that remains on the concrete slabs.

Concrete Modeling.jpg
 
I'm actually planning an acid wash for my deck, to clean it and restore its color, and to mask the MA stains I put down. (Long story!)

And as you might recall, I am crazy anti-acid wash for a pool. A pool's plaster has a very thin layer of cream that, IMO, is greatly compromised by an acid wash. My concrete deck is inches thick and should have a very thick cream later on it, plus it is already greatly pocked and stained due to surrounding sprinkler system and age. For me, the benefit of an acid wash far outweighs the risk, if there even is one. Plus, the person managing my wash is probably the foremost authority (possibly in the world, who just happens to be a friend), on performing an acid wash on concrete and stone surfaces, so I have a leg up on getting mine done without incident.

If you are going to use acid on your deck (or have someone else do so), it should be with the understanding that they know what they're doing, both in the application and neutralization of acid on masonry surfaces, and more importably tests should be done with the dilution of acid they plan to use, on a discrete area of your deck, to determine if the results are to your liking, BEFORE, they blast the whole thing.

Curious thing about the jets, especially why they are not staining the same. Does water puddle around them when they're on? And is that water only from the jet, and not from down below? A little test that comes to mind: place a layer of plastic over the jet (like even saran wrap), and cut out an opening for the jet. Tape the plastic to the jet. Turn it on? Does water puddle only on top of the plastic, and not below it? Other than testing to see if it's leaking from below, I got nuttin'. I know my deck is stained and pocked and varies in color. Just happens over time, especially around water sources (like sprinkler overspray, as I mentioned). Concrete can be sealed, I think, much like stone, so that might slow the inevitable, though I'm not sure of that, and if and when it can be done relative to its curing. Something to research...
 
Just had a long conversation with my guy about acid washing decks. I'm still going to do mine, but based on what he just described, I wouldn't let anyone but him do it. There's more to it than I just eluded to, but I'm out of time this morning. More later....
 
Thanks Dirk. I'm very inclined to just ask for credits from this PB instead of them using their subcontractors. Not sure they will go for it. The sooner I get them out of my hair - the better.

That sounds prudent. I take on all I can, to avoid contractors. I don't trust anyone with my pool (or most anything else, for that matter). But some things are better left to the pros (and I realize not everyone possesses the skills I do, so some don't have options). It's a tough call sometimes.

From my stone guy. He reminded me that the cream on a deck is not all that thick either, and the same warnings apply. A bad application can burn through it, too. And even if it doesn't get ruined, you are still losing "years" (some amount of longevity) off your deck by using acid (it takes concrete with it, no way around that). As his normal MO, he first exhausts less invasive stain-removing techniques and chemicals before he goes to acid (acid, especially MA, should always be the last resort, not the first). If he has to use acid, he has exacting methods to determine the bare minimum strength of acid, and he has neutralizing chemicals at the ready to stop the acid reaction at a moments notice. He measures the acid's pH before it ever touches the surface. He tries it out first on a test area. He's meticulous about handling it, and applying it, etc. These are a partial list of what you get when you use someone that really knows what they are doing. Will the teenager delegated to wash your deck have that same know-how and experience? (I'm exaggerating to some degree, but you get the point.)

Acid seems to be the go-to fix for pools by PBs, because it produces results, fast, and doesn't require much upfront cost or equipment. But what I describe is what PBs don't generally divulge, and the results of the damage acid does to a surface (even when applied well) aren't seen for years (when your surface starts to come part a decade later, well after the warranty has expired). So PBs use the "money" in your surface's "bank" to "pay" for their mistake, because you don't realize that value is gone until they are!

Here's a tidbit that he shared: if you apply acid to concrete and brush it in a bit to get things going, you'll see a foaming reaction (and in reality that foam is the acid taking off the first layer of grime and concrete). The foaming action will subside. If you brush again, you'll see more foaming. What he was illustrating, is that a lot of applicators see that first ceasing of foam as "job done, acid done," not realizing that the acid is still plenty potent and can still continue to dissolve the finish. He cited that as a common way inexperienced applicators get into trouble and end up ruining a finish, because they don't understand, chemically, what is going on. It's not like sand paper, where you grind, grind, grind, and then it's done, and safe. :blah:

Point was: I trust my guy. Unless you can assure yourself that your guy knows what he's doing, really knows, I'd take the dough and leave your deck alone.
 
I wish I did not keep adding things on to the issues I have - but I noticed a while ago these small "dots" in the concrete. They range between 1/16" to 1/4" there are many - I nave not counted. I looked online It it appears it's called "spalling". It seems that the top layer of the creme is very thin, and an acid wash wll do more harm than good.

https://sealgreen.com/blog/concrete-surface-peeling/
 
Sorry to hear that. It's our reality. There are some things we can't do ourselves. We hire someone expecting the best. But there are as many skill levels for any given trade as there are tradesmen. You never know what you're going to get, or when defects in workmanship will show up. As that article points out, as I did, some problems you won't know about for years. It's going to be a few more days before I can reveal, but I'll come back to explain how I recently achieved 100% resolution to the contractor-related problems I've been having (don't want to jinx it just yet).

That article also mentioned sealing, as I did previously. My guy and I talked about that, too. Yes, sealing concrete will help with staining. You have to understand the stain potential to identify the correct sealing material and method, but that is something to consider if you're looking to maintain your new finishes as much as possible. The downside to sealing is that it is susceptible to wear and tear and sun, so must be reapplied periodically (it's not a permanent solution). So you can learn to do it yourself, and what to use, and then seal once a year (or so).

More later...
 
Checking in with test numbers.
FC: 7.0
pH: 8.0 (added 4 cups MA)
TA: 80
CH: 380
CYA: 70
SALT: 3800
CSI: .14
Temp: 75

The pump runs 7 hours a day, and the SWG is set to 20%.
The only thing I've been adding is 2 - 3 cups of MA almost daily to keep the pH around 7.4 - Is this normal to need to add MA daily?
 

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