New Construction: Cathedral City CA

"...Just thinkin' out loud."

That's what I like bout ya ... Dirk :) That test IS something to consider.
IF the test proves successful and there there is a partial (only in the problem areas) or complete pool acid wash, will I need to wait 30 days before starting the SWG again?
 
"...Just thinkin' out loud."

That's what I like bout ya ... Dirk :) That test IS something to consider.
IF the test proves successful and there there is a partial (only in the problem areas) or complete pool acid wash, will I need to wait 30 days before starting the SWG again?

Hmm, my first thought would be "No, that plaster is already cured." but that's well beyond my knowledge. Maybe the newly exposed plaster (having lost the first layer to the acid) would need additional curing time? Who knows. Somebody else would have to advise you on that.

The SWG should be the last thing on your mind. And frankly something that PB shouldn't really be messing with now either. The staining is the priority. And your first move should be to get the PB and sales guy back on it. (IMO)

If it were my pool, and I couldn't get a new finish out of the guy, and the only two choices were acid wash or live with it? I'd live with it and not take the chance. It's what I would do different about my fiasco. That acid wash on my pool should have never been recommended, and I would have been better off living with the calcium scaling. It looked crummy, but actually felt nicer to my feet and knees than even my new pebble does now! I regret allowing the wash, and that's mainly what I'm sharing with you.

Tough decisions.

Don't forget, there may be other solutions than an acid wash, that would attack the stain and not the plaster. I'm not hopeful in that regard, but this is all speculation until the PB gets into it and tries to solve this. Maybe, along with acid, a series of less invasive tests are in order. Just like TFP advises, when someone is trying to identify and treat an unknown stain. Start with the least invasive solution. Small patches. See what happens. Work up to acid a step at a time.
 
Good morning, Chemistry question. Our salt cell indicates, Salt Level: Good. My morning Salt test indicates the level as 3600 (18 drops). The PH is slightly over 7.8, I’d put it at 7.9. And the FC is 2.0. Pool temp 74 and CSI: -.21

I’m concerned with the chlorine being so low, while the salt test seems good. Suggestions?
 
Good morning, Chemistry question. Our salt cell indicates, Salt Level: Good. My morning Salt test indicates the level as 3600 (18 drops). The PH is slightly over 7.8, I’d put it at 7.9. And the FC is 2.0. Pool temp 74 and CSI: -.21

I’m concerned with the chlorine being so low, while the salt test seems good. Suggestions?

Add liquid chlorine. Don't rely on the SWG to move FC in big amounts. It's not designed to do that. It's primary function is to keep FC at a certain level throughout the day. Use liquid chlorine to get your FC where it belongs, then dial in the SWG output setting to keep FC at that level.

Use MA to bring your pH within range (7.2 - 7.8). New plaster and SWG drive pH up, like, a lot. You'll have to stay on top of that. I'm having to add quite a bit of MA every day. My pebble is six months old, and I'm still dosing MA heavily. The amount about doubled when I turned on my SWG.
 
Thanks for the reply Dirk!

Sounds like I should continue to do my daily late afternoon FC and pH tests and add what chlorine and MA pMath recommends. Our pump is set to go from 8am-8pm daily, and the SWG should naturally be producing more FC during the day, and as time progresses my late afternoon tests should show that I need to add less and less chlorine ... is that correct?


In post #450, my SWM shows that the sanitizer output is at 6% / 60% (not sure which I should reference the % above or below the light ...they are not flashing). Do I just leave this where it is at for now?


I dreaded the day I was going to first add the MA… today was that day! I set pMath to a 7.5 target and suited up with long pants, long sleeves, shoes, proactive googles and heavy gloves… (compared to the pool guy, it felt like I was ready for bio warfare) I faced my fears and DID IT added my first 2 cups of MA!!!

I will retest is a few hours and see where I’m at.
 
Sounds like I should continue to do my daily late afternoon FC and pH tests and add what chlorine and MA pMath recommends. Our pump is set to go from 8am-8pm daily, and the SWG should naturally be producing more FC during the day, and as time progresses my late afternoon tests should show that I need to add less and less chlorine ... is that correct?

In post #450, my SWM shows that the sanitizer output is at 6% / 60% (not sure which I should reference the % above or below the light ...they are not flashing). Do I just leave this where it is at for now?


I dreaded the day I was going to first add the MA… today was that day! I set pMath to a 7.5 target and suited up with long pants, long sleeves, shoes, proactive googles and heavy gloves… (compared to the pool guy, it felt like I was ready for bio warfare) I faced my fears and DID IT added my first 2 cups of MA!!!

I will retest is a few hours and see where I’m at.

Use the ET screen or ScreenLogic to both set and determine your SWG output. ScreenLogic makes it very easy. ScreenLogic/ET can set the SWG in 1% increments. On the unit itself, you get 20% chunks only (and I think some one or two % increments below 10 or something). Use ScreenLogic.

Since the deployment of Save-a-Deck®, my MA-fearing days are behind me!

This is how I'm working through SWG adjustment:

Add liquid chlorine, based on Pool Math, to bring FC to desired level.

Set SWG to best guess.

Test water at end of day of full SWG use. I'm testing in the evening because by then the SWG has made all the chlorine its going to, and the sun and swimmers have used up all they're going to.

If FC is desired level: do nothing.

If FC is a little high, turn down SWG output 5%.

If FC is a little low, turn up SWG output 5%.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

If FC gets way low, restore desired level with liquid chlorine (NOT with the SWG), and start over.

If FC gets way high, skip a day of SWG and start over.

That's what I have done so far. I know I'll still need to test and adjust throughout the year. Bather load, weather, water temp, etc will all affect the SWG output setting. After a while, I expect to see a trend, that will allow me to skip more and more days of testing (every other day, every third day, once a week, whatever). And next year I'll have my journal to shortcut the process.

For now, daily or every other day testing is a given, because of my pH-rise. So the FC testing is easy enough to do while I continue to fine tune my SWG output setting.

Hope that helps...
 
Sounds like a good plan. When I look at ScreenLogic this is what I see. The 50% for the pool output and zero for the spa, I assume that's because our spa is attached that section is not used. Does that 50% correlate to the green lights I see in the actual intellichlor unit (though that show 6/60%)?

I do want to confirm. I believe Kim (or you) suggested that my FC target should be 6.0 (for a while). But I also see that the chart on TFP for plaster SW pools, FC between 3-5. If (big IF) I recall you said 3 is drop dead low. So what should I set my target for in pMath 5?

If 5 is the number, and at the end of the day and I test the FC and it is at 4. I should use ScreenLogic and up the Pool Output to 55% - and do nothing at the actual unit.

However, if the FC is 3, I should use chlorine to bring it up to 5 and wait another day to see if the SWG catches up?

IMG_2351.jpg
 
Now that you've found the SL controls, you're done at the unit (for adjustment purposes, anyway). The SWG doesn't report everything back to SL, unfortunately, so you check the Flow, Low and Cell lights periodically. But you can now safely ignore the % lights. When set to amounts between the 20-40-60-etc, I think the display shows the closest %, but you can trust SL and ignore the SWG output indicators.

This is how I determine my FC. My CYA is 70, so my minimum FC is 3, and target is 5. I ignore 3 altogether and use 5 as my minimum. I do what it takes to never go below 5. During non-SWG season, I dose high, and let it drift back to 5, then up again. During SWG season, I shoot for 5, and treat 4 as a "red light situation" that needs immediate correction. If I have FC6, I'll let it ride to see where it's at tomorrow. Repeat.
By using my target as a minimum, if something goes wrong, I have a buffer. And it's really not much of one at that. In my pool, a hot summer day can blast thought FC2 no problem, even more I suspect. So I don't want to be caught at 3 or 4, then have a problem, to find FC0! Better to ride 5 or 6, then a "FC3" mistake will still leave some chlorine in the pool.

Short-winded version, if I had FC4 when I was first starting out, I'd dose with liquid back to five and up the SWG. That's what I meant by starting over. After a while you'll start to see trends and then you can more safely "gamble" that your SWG can quickly recover from the occasional FC4.

For me, my pool, FC3 = zero! I don't mess around down there. It's relatively harmless to be a few FC-points high (though potentially wasteful in terms of chlorine use). FC3 is probably safe, but it's not worth it to me to find out the hard way where my algae threshold is, because that's a SLAM.

My long term goal, which I hope to brag about in years to come: "I got my pebble to last 30 years, and I never had any scaling, and I never had any algae!" So I play it safe with my levels, knowing ahead of time that I'm lazy and forgetful so I leave myself a healthy margin of error...
 
Ok so now my FC is 7. I’ll test in the morning and again around 6pm and either adjust with chlorine, or raise/lower the % on the SWG.
The pH was 7.8, so I added 16 oz MA.

My CYA is only 40, the recommendation is 45 oz of dry stabilizer. I assume I should start adding stabilizer now?
 
Ok so now my FC is 7. I’ll test in the morning and again around 6pm and either adjust with chlorine, or raise/lower the % on the SWG.
The pH was 7.8, so I added 16 oz MA.

My CYA is only 40, the recommendation is 45 oz of dry stabilizer. I assume I should start adding stabilizer now?

Yes, you're running an SWG pool now. Use the corresponding charts and level recommendations...

If you use the sock/squeeze method of adding dry stabilizer, you wait a day to test for the new amount of CYA. Not before. Add a day if you want to play it safe. Remember, like salt, you can't easily reduce CYA, so you don't want to overshoot.

Both the web browser and app versions of Pool Math have a setting you need to adjust for SWG, that tells Pool Math you're now running an SWG pool, and they both adjust their various data points and results and recommendations accordingly. Let me know if you need any help finding that setting, if you haven't already.

Another member here and I discovered a possible glitch in the Pool Math app, when switching the setting from bleach/chlorine to SWG. Some of the target fields retained their bleach/chlorine number (because those can be adjusted by the user, on the fly, so the interface "remembers" what was in the field before), and other fields updated to the new SWG targets. Each field is accompanied by the recommended range, which seems to update correctly. You just need to verify that the target field is populated with a value that is within the SWG recommended range. That'll make more sense when you're using the app and looking at the fields and recommendations.
 

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Thanks Dirk, I'll start the CYA in the morning, the pump will be running all day, so I can squeeze, squeeze ...squeeze. I realized that I'm getting dangerously low on R-0013, probably onlyenough for 2 more tests. Gotta look to see if I can find a place that won't charge a huge amount for shipping. I'm thinking of buying at least a 16 oz bottle. There is this 32 oz bottle (Blue Devil B7518 Cyanuric Acid Test, Quart (32 oz) Bottle) but I don’t that will work the rest of the TF CYA test. I probably need to check what other reagents I’m running low on.

You mentioned the pMath app, I know I have to keep a close eye on it. I realized that this morning and yesterday’s test results were entered under my old “chlorine pool” and not the new SWG pool .. my bad. I also need to keep checking that the targets are what TFP has recommended.

 
You mentioned the pMath app, I know I have to keep a close eye on it. I realized that this morning and yesterday’s test results were entered under my old “chlorine pool” and not the new SWG pool .. my bad. I also need to keep checking that the targets are what TFP has recommended.

It's not clear if you understood what I was telling you. You can make a new pool in the app, that sounds like a good idea. I didn't. I just noted in the Notes field that I switched to SWG. But I was talking about a specific setting you must change so Pool Math can do the math for SWG. Otherwise, certain levels or range recommendations will be off.




I bought this, then bragged about it here, about what a great deal it was. Man did I get a hoot out of everyone. They say it'll last me a decade! It was only eight bucks when I bought it, so only four bucks more than the 2oz size. It's since gone up, but still a good price. 32 oz would be way too much.

Amazon.com : TAYLOR TECHNOLOGIES INC R-0013-E CYANURIC ACID 16 OZ : Swimming Pool Liquid Test Kits : Garden Outdoor
 
York, I have been sitting back with a HUGE smile on my face reading all of this! You have come SO far! Testing like a boss, adding m.a. (good safety stuff worn) and really learning your pool! SCORE!!!

Dirk :hug: THANKS! File this one away for one of the WINS!!!!

Kim:kim:
 
It's not clear if you understood what I was telling you. You can make a new pool in the app, that sounds like a good idea. I didn't. I just noted in the Notes field that I switched to SWG. But I was talking about a specific setting you must change so Pool Math can do the math for SWG. Otherwise, certain levels or range recommendations will be off.

I did make New Pool, AND I did remember you telling to make sure of the settings/type of pool - it is set to SWG along with the total gallons .. ya taught me well (and continue :))



Great - I went it bought this last night, It will arrive just as I run out. HOWEVER this morning I started to question — will with work with the mixing bottle and viewing tube that came with the TF-100 test kit I already have?

On yet another note- CYA/ Stabilizer. I had more than enough room in the skimmer sock to put 45 oz and tie the sock. Placed it in the skimmer and gave of a couple squeezes and then about 30 minutes later squeezed again (the pump will be running until 8pm tonight). An hour later, the sock is 75% dissolved! Did I do something wrong ... I recall hearing many comments on it taking much, much longer.

I am using my bare hand to squeeze, and I wait for the water in the skimmer to clear to rinse my hand in the water before removing it from the skimmer. Is there any risk of staining the concrete coping if some of the stabilizer gets on it?
 
Kim / Dirk: I have now idea where I would have been without your help, guidance and support!!!!

And while I feel like I have just graduated from Middle School, I still have High School and College ahead of me. So glad that TFP is here to guide me. I keep telling our friends down here to consider to be more active in their pools, some seem genuinely interested. Every chance I get I give the web address out. I might just print out some cards to give people with the url, so they don't forget.

We are nearing the planting phase of the project. A couple citrus trees have already gone in, the plants need to be drought tolerant, but really, really concerned with flowering plants. I see a new TFP search in my near future.
 
The CYA regents you bought will work with any test! You are good to go on that.

CYA dissolving- You are fine. Some goes faster than others. Keep it up and it. As far as the "cloud" getting on the plaster....no big deal as the water dilutes it so fast and moves it away you are fine.

When I am adding CYA I walk around in the pool and squeeze as I go. Living life on the edge LOL

There was a print out for TFP cards. I will ask where we can find them again. I am out also.

:hug: Can't wait to help you plant!!!

Kim:kim:
 
As long as whatever is leaving the sock is in "cloud form" and not undissolved granules sneaking through the weave, you're good. Even if some larger chunks escape, they'll get sucked into the filter media and dissolve there. So you're fine.

You can alleviate any concern by waiting longer than a day to test your CYA level. You know it's in your water now, somewhere, so it's just a matter now of when it gets evenly distributed to the entire body of water. If you test it tomorrow and then the next: if the number is higher later, it's still dissolving and mixing, if you get the same result, you're good.

I like the sock in skimmer method, because there's virtually no chance any undissolved CYA will find it's way to the bottom of my pool's surface. But others like to introduce it into the main body, by hanging the sock in front of a return or walking around in the water while squeezing the sock, because there's less likelihood any will get trapped in the filter, which would mean they could get an accurate test result sooner. Half a dozen of one... I can spare the extra day or two, so I play it safe to make sure my pebble doesn't take another CYA hit.

By sock, they're referring to the kind you wear, which would have a tight weave, which would require the CYA to dissolve into tinier particles before they could escape, which would take a while. If the weave of your skimmer sock is wider apart, then your CYA didn't have to dissolve as much to escape, so the sock would empty faster. It'll stay in your filter until it continues to dissolve in size enough to get through your filter media.

:blah:

Seque...

Well, if CYA can stain plaster, I'd imagine it could stain concrete coping, too. I'd certainly treat it like it could. Why are you removing the sock? You mean after it's done, or in between squeezes? Leave the sock in the skimmer basket, reach your hand in, squeeze away, rinse your hand off, then hand out of the skimmer. Sock stays in until the CYA is gone.

I can tell you how I handle all pool chemicals, now that I've burned both my pebble and my deck (Why are we listening to this Dirk guy?), because I've already done it wrong, now I know how to do it right! Any chemicals that need to travel across my deck now do so in a bucket. Chlorine jugs, MA jugs, CYA socks, whatever, in the bucket. I place the bucket half on the edge of the pool (or skimmer opening), then move the chemical container into or out of the bucket, directly over the water, so there's no chance a drip or a leak or whatever, can fall back onto the deck. I treat everything now like it could stain my deck, whether it can or not, whether it's diluted or not. This can be considered overkill, others will scoff, that's fine. I no longer differentiate based on my guess about a potential reaction, I assume a reaction, regardless of possibility. It's just a best-practice habit to get into, so that whatever material might actually stain my deck, will never have a chance to, and I don't have to remember which might and which might not, and at what strength, etc. Nothing will ever have a shot. It's such an easy habit to adopt and it doesn't take any extra time or effort.

Same MO for a sock of CYA, whether you thought it was all dissolved or not, treat it like it's molten lava! If it can never drip onto your deck, it can't ever stain it.

Just to beat this horse up a little more, this is left over mantra from my years of scuba diving. I'd watch other divers, and myself too, decide on-the-fly, before each dive, what equipment to wear. "It's daytime, I don't need a flashlight." "There's no kelp, I don't need my knife." "It's a shallow dive in no current, I don't need my safety signaling devices" Etc. I eventually stopped using that practice. You never know what you might get into, so bring it all. What current might come up. What circumstance might happen where you suddenly need that knife or flashlight or safety whistle. Why go through the exercise of trying to decide what to bring each time. Bring it all, every time, know that you'll never be without something, no matter what. I quickly realized this took less effort/time, not more, because putting it all on my body became a strong habit quickly executed, and I didn't have to expend any time deciding anything.

So I apply that to other aspects of my activities: if it doesn't take much of anything extra to go 100%, what is the point of going 50%?

:blah:

Boy oh boy, sorry, more than you could possibly want to know about any of that! I must really not want to go to work today!! ;)
 
Well I squeezed the skimmer sock (inside the skimmer) and within about 5 hours is was all gone. I rinsed it many times inside the skimmer, so when I took it out it was well rinsed.

5:15pm I tested the water and the FC was 10 and the pH was 7.5. I'll wait a day (or two) to test the CYA. Since the FC is high, I reduced the Intellichlor output from 50 to 45% and will check the FC again in the AM and PM to see what the numbers are.

We got our heater turned on today (finally). So tonight we get to use the spa... (can you see the big smile).
 
Dirk better to have and not need then...............need and not have! When we had off-road motorcycles we "dressed for the fall" instead of the weather. We also made sure we have MORE water than we thought we would need. It paid off more than once during that time in our life. How many times did one of your dive buddies ask for something your brought and they did not???

York!!!!!!!!! Heater on????????? OH YEAH!! Now you can really enjoy the fruit of your labors!!!!! :party: I DO see that smile all the way over here!

Kim:kim:
 
We got our heater turned on today (finally). So tonight we get to use the spa... (can you see the big smile).

Kim, can you imagine?!? The two of them sitting in their little warm perch, overlooking that new pool. I'm envious. Not just of the pool, but to the feelings of pride and accomplishment they must be sharing!!

Congrat's you two!!
 

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