New Construction: Cathedral City CA

[Yorker]

We'll we missed the evening spa opportunity. The winds were something like 20mph - but we did hop in at 7am hmmm ... I thing we are going in late tonight even if the winds pick up again. Now for chemistry...

Head is spinning again. Not helped by having a sick dog :-(

Here are my numbers (working backward). Seems like I need to lower the SWG more … a lot more OR should I turn of the SWG by setting it to zero?

Today 5:30pm
FC: 22
pH: 7.8
CYA:75 I forgot, do I round up or down?
CSI: -.36
Temp:74

This morning 10:00 am
FC: 12
pH: 7.5
CSI: -.68
Temp: 71

Last Night 5:30pm
FC: 10 (reduced SWG 5% from 50 to 45%)
pH: 7.5
CSI: -.63
Temp:76

 

[kimkats]

I would turn the SWG off for the night and into tomorrow to bring the FC down. You should lower the SWG. I would go half way down from where it is now. It is going to take some experimenting to see what works for your pool in each season.

CYA-round up. Rather a little more FC than too little.

You are doing fine! No worries with any of your numbers. We will get it all leveled out with some time and tweaking.

Glad you go to enjoy your spa this morning!!!

Sad to hear you have a sick dog I hope they get better!!

Kim

 

[Yorker]

Thanks Kim, I just finished finding the post were you mentioned to ROUND UP. I went to write that down on the cheat sheet I keep with my test kit - only to find that I already made a note of it... It's now in bold and red

To turn the SWG off - does that mean set the % to zero? I don't see an on/off button on my app. Since my pump runs 8am-8pm. Should I just keep the % at zero all day tomorrow and test at 5pm to see where we're at? THEN set it at 25% for the next day?

I would turn the SWG off for the night and into tomorrow to bring the FC down. You should lower the SWG. I would go half way down from where it is now. It is going to take some experimenting to see what works for your pool in each season.

CYA-round up. Rather a little more FC than too little.

You are doing fine! No worries with any of your numbers. We will get it all leveled out with some time and tweaking.

Glad you go to enjoy your spa this morning!!!

Sad to hear you have a sick dog I hope they get better!!

Kim

 

[Dirk]

Yes, just set to zero. All day, or until you test FC at target level. Continue to reduce output until you start seeing FC level the same from day to day. Keep in mind, as the summer approaches, you’ll adjust output up to accommodate the normal rise in chlorine consumption for the season, then back down in the fall when things cool off...

When you're ready, we can talk about your 12 hour runtime...

 

[kimkats]

Yeah what Dirk said! LOL

 

[Yorker]

Thanks Dirk, that sounds like a plan I can follow. Today is Sunday, and I will be preforming all the chemical tests.

I think I have bandwidth for a discussion about my 12 hour runtime (or is this HUGE

 

[Dirk]

I think I have bandwidth my 12 hour runtime (or is this HUGE

Well, it was, until I erased it from my other post! Let's start with this. Read or reread the following:

Pool School - Determine Pump Run Time

And let me know if you've figured this out:

Your SWG's output setting is not like a dimmer switch. It does not vary the amount of electricity applied to the cell, and so doesn't vary the amount of chlorine produced. It's more like an on-off timer switch. The cell produces all of the chlorine it's capable of any time the units "Cell" light is on. Adjusting the Output setting determines how much time per hour* the cell produces. So at 25%, the cell produces all the chlorine it can for 25% of the time, or 15 minutes for every hour you have it scheduled. 50% means 30 minutes per hour, etc. You'll see the Cell light go on and off throughout the day. Took me a while to figure out this in not indicating something is right or wrong with the functionality of the Cell, merely when the cell is producing, and when it is not.

* I don't actually know that this interval is an hour or not. I couldn't quickly find it with the google machine. Others here might know. I only know the Output % setting is an expression of time: chlorine production for X percentage of time during Y period of time.

 

[Yorker]

Today’s numbers are:
FC: 10.5 (I’ll go another day with the SWG set to zero % output)
pH: 7.6
TA: 70
CH: 360
CYA: 70
Salt: 3400
CSI: -.34
Temp:74

 

[Dirk]

Today’s numbers are:
FC: 10.5 (I’ll go another day with the SWG set to zero % output)
pH: 7.6
TA: 70
CH: 360
CYA: 70
Salt: 3400
CSI: -.34
Temp:74

Holy guacamole, those are some good numbers! Not that we're supposed to be shooting for some "perfect set." But if we were, that's just about what it would look like!! Nice job!!!

Uhg, I had a 74° day today, too. Even with my solar heater. I'm ready for pool season, already, come on!!

 

[Yorker]

Hi All - been a heck of a week.

Though we did heat the pool a couple times and I swam some laps. I can only get 10 strokes in per length, but I can do it without needing to take a breath … it felt good. Took 4.5 hours to heat it to 85° from 68° and the total cost to keep it at 85 for more 6 hours was about $16 (love that SoCal Gas shows an hourly breakdown of gas consumption). We can't afford to do that daily, but for a party it’s more than fine.

Question: What should I set my salt target to in pMath?

Also, the holes in “standard” umbrella sleeves the PB installed around the coping are over a 1/4” larger than our umbrella polls, looks lousy with them all leaning in different directions. Searched the internet and TFP and have not found a solution yet (other than shimming them from one side)

Here is this weeks numbers

Friday 5:30pm
FC: 5.5 (I’m thinking of raising the SWG to 25%… or bringing the pump back up to 12 hours … thoughts?)
pH: 8.0 (added 27oz MA)
Salt: 3600
Temp: 75°
CSI: .03

Thursday 2:45pm (reduced the pump from 2500 rpm 12 hours - to 2200 rpm for 10 hours)
FC: 7.0
pH: 7.7
Salt: 3600
Temp: 78°
CSI:-.22

7:30am
FC: 7.0
pH: 7.8
Salt: 4600 (pool guy dumped about 20 lbs of salt in the day before)
Temp: 72°
CSI:-.21

Wednesday 5:00pm
FC: 6.0 (set the SWG to 20% - was at zero)
pH: 8.0 (added 16oz MA)
Salt: 3800
Temp: 81°
CSI:.09

Tuesday 4:30pm
FC: 6.5
pH: 7.8
Salt: 3400
Temp: 80°
CSI:-.10

Monday 12:00pm
FC: 9.0
pH: 7.8
Temp: 85°
CSI:-.05

Sunday 7:30pm
FC: 10.5 (I’ll go another day with the SWG set to zero % output)
pH: 7.6
TA: 70
CH: 360 (a little high)
CYA: 70 (a little high)
Salt: 3400
CSI: -.34
Temp:74

 

[Dirk]

Hi All - been a heck of a week.

Though we did heat the pool a couple times and I swam some laps. I can only get 10 strokes in per length, but I can do it without needing to take a breath … it felt good. Took 4.5 hours to heat it to 85° from 68° and the total cost to keep it at 85 for more 6 hours was about $16 (love that SoCal Gas shows an hourly breakdown of gas consumption). We can't afford to do that daily, but for a party it’s more than fine.

Question: What should I set my salt target to in pMath?

Also, the holes in “standard” umbrella sleeves the PB installed around the coping are over a 1/4” larger than our umbrella polls, looks lousy with them all leaning in different directions. Searched the internet and TFP and have not found a solution yet (other than shimming them from one side)


Sunday 7:30pm
FC: 10.5 (I’ll go another day with the SWG set to zero % output)
pH: 7.6
TA: 70
CH: 360 (a little high)
CYA: 70 (a little high)
Salt: 3400
CSI: -.34
Temp:74

Keep workin' the SWG. Small changes.

You can continue to lower the pump speed and hours, I'd say. Be aware that every time you lower the hours, it'll affect your SWG output.

Your numbers are perfect, don't do anything except for the FC. CH is not high. CYA is not high. Where are you getting that? You're running a SWG pool now, be sure you're looking at ranges for SWG. CSI is a tad low, but plaster and SWG will keep it on the rise, so a tad low for a brief time is fine, it'll bounce right back. 0 to -0.3 is ideal for a SWG pool (slightly negative keeps the calcium from forming on the SWG plates).

You can average your salt readings for Pool Math for now. You can't reliably use the number from the SWG, if that's what you're doing. Get the Taylor K-1766 test kit.

Using your heater below the minimum recommended temp is harmful to it. Check your heater's owner manual for that minimum temp.

Why did the pool guy add salt? Why is the pool guy still in the picture?

You're doing great.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Also, the holes in “standard” umbrella sleeves the PB installed around the coping are over a 1/4” larger than our umbrella polls, looks lousy with them all leaning in different directions. Searched the internet and TFP and have not found a solution yet (other than shimming them from one side)

I hate that too. I tried one of these umbrella cones...



It didn't help much. My umbrella pole barely fits inside a piece of pipe corral I used as a shim. It helps a little but still crooked. I'll be watching for some ideas.

 

[Dirk]

Also, the holes in “standard” umbrella sleeves the PB installed around the coping are over a 1/4” larger than our umbrella polls, looks lousy with them all leaning in different directions. Searched the internet and TFP and have not found a solution yet (other than shimming them from one side)

1.
Same way you fix anything, duct tape! Just wrap the pole, at the bottom, and just below where it clears the sleeve, with turns of duct tape until it reaches the proper thickness. Not too thick or it'll jam up.

2.
Is it close to the diameter of PVC? Get a length of the size just below the diameter of the pole (slightly smaller than). Cut it to the length of the sleeve, or an 1" or so longer.* Cut a slit down length of the PVC. Spread it open enough to slip around the pole. Depending on the thickness of the PVC walls, that might take up just enough slack. If you can't spread it enough, then cut down the length of the other side (splitting the length in half), in essence making two curved shims. Glue them to the pole. If they're too thick for the sleeve, keep slicing up the PVC, even if you get down to 1/2" strips. Glue three of them around the diameter of the pole, three small, curved shims, equidistant from each other.

* 1" longer than the sleeve in case the PVC comes off the pole for some reason and gets stuck in the sleeve, you'll have some sticking out to grab onto (with pliers if need be).

3.
If the curve or thickness of PVC isn't working, start shopping for an alternate material to fit. Doesn't need to be curved. Three 1/2" strips of 1/8" thick wood would work (or some other plastic or aluminum material): length of sleeve, affix around the pole. Aluminum strips like that can be found at Lowe's/HD.

4.
Six screws would work, three around the bottom, three just below where the pole leaves the sleeve. Screwed right into the pole, equidistant from each other. The heads of the screws would be the shims, taking up the slack. This is my least favorite idea, as the screw heads would be pressure points that won't be kind to the inside of your sleeve.

5.
In the hardware dept at Lowes/HD, you'll find a section of feet/pads. Self adhesive to stick onto the bottom of table and chair legs. Rubber. Felt. Nylon. Of various thicknesses. Use those as shims. They might pop off during the season, though, and be a challenge to fish out of the sleeves.

Those are my 6:30am ideas...

 

[Dirk]

6.
Find 1/8" aluminum bailing, or electrical, wire and wrap the bottom of the pole in it. Epoxy the ends to keep it from unraveling or slipping off. 12G Romex would work, too, complete with plastic cover, available in white, black, green and red!

That was 7:30am. I can do this all day long!!

PS. I'd be careful about using metal, that it has to be compatible with the pole and the sleeve. Galvanic reactions can weld the whole thing together.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Great ideas Dirk! That'll keep me busy awhile.

I need to take some more precise measurements. Something like this may work as well. It looks like the dimensions may be close. [h=1]1-1/4 in. I.D. x 1-5/8 in. O.D. x 2 ft. Clear Braided Vinyl Tubing[/h]

Sorry for the semi-hijack...

 

[Dirk]

Great ideas Dirk! That'll keep me busy awhile.

I need to take some more precise measurements. Something like this may work as well. It looks like the dimensions may be close. 1-1/4 in. I.D. x 1-5/8 in. O.D. x 2 ft. Clear Braided Vinyl Tubing

There you go. When I have a problem like this to solve, I'll go to Lowe's and wander up and down the isles, looking for "just the right thing." You never know in what department you'll find the perfect solution, which might be designed for something else altogether...

 

[Yorker]

"You can continue to lower the pump speed and hours, I'd say. Be aware that every time you lower the hours, it’ll affect your SWG output.”

If I understand this correctly, I want to run the pump long enough to circulate the volume of the pool once or twice a day to keep the pool water filtered. But also the right amount of time to generate FC through the SWG (keeping the FC between 5-7).

"CYA is not high. Where are you getting that? “

The last CYA test I did was last Sunday, I’ll be doing another tomorrow.

"You’re running a SWG pool now, be sure you’re looking at ranges for SWG”

I do need to keep double checking that I’m in the Salt Pool I set up. This last week there wre a couple of times I thought pMath kicked me back to the old Chlorine Pool I created - but pMath has been consistent keeping in the Salt Water Pool and with correct settings.

"You can average your salt readings for Pool Math for now. You can't reliably use the number from the SWG, if that's what you're doing. Get the Taylor K-1766 test kit.”

I do use the Taylor K-1766 test kit - that’s where my numbers come from. Though I believe that when I looked at the App - it generally was fairly close too what the test kit showed. I’m will try to list both readings in the future. I’ve read that the numbers the SWG puts out are not reliable.

"Why did the pool guy add salt? Why is the pool guy still in the picture?”

His was supposed to check on the salt level one last time LAST Friday. Then he just dropped by unannounced on Wednesday. He stuck a small cup about 2” deep in the deep end and used his digital reader. I asked him to hold off doing anything until I reviewed the number from the test I preformed about an hour before. Pool guys’s number was 3200 - mine was 3800. He next tested pulling water from the steps in the center of the pool and got 3400, then at the other deep end and got 3600. He said that he would like the number to be a tad higher and that he was just going to put a quarter of a bag of salt in (ruffly 10 lbs), I turned my head for a moment as he was folding up a half empty 40;b bag… Thus the next morning the salt tested at 4600. Needless to say I’m done with him.

"Using your heater below the minimum recommended temp is harmful to it. Check your heater’s owner manual for that minimum temp.”

I’ve seen a number of comments/cautions on TFP about using the heater when the water temps are 68 or below. It seemed impossible that one should have to wait until the water temp reached 68° naturally before they could heat their spa.

So I found this in the manual:
• Operating this heater continuously at water temperatures below 68° F. (20° C) will cause harmful condensation and will damage the heater and void the warranty.

Well,there you have it! Or maybe not. But I did not understand what “continuously” meant … perhaps it meant I wanted to heat a 45° spa to 67°and maintain it at 67°…?THEN I read this entry in the manual:
• When starting the heater for the swimming season with a water temperature below 50° F (10° C), the heater may be used to heat the water;however, make sure that the heater operates continuously until the water temperature reaches the heater’s minimum setting of 68° F (20°C).During cold weather, if there is no danger of freezing, operate thefilter pump continuously even if the heater is not operating. If air temperatures are expected to dropbelow freezing (32° F/0° C), shut down the heater and winterize it.

OK - so I interpret this as IT IS ok to heat a pool/spa below 68° - just keep the heater going until it get over 68°.

 

[Yorker]

All this and umbrella solutions! Dirk (aka MacGyver), Rancho ... THANKS!!!

 

[Dirk]

I can't advise further on the heater issue. I just knew that there could be one. I don't use my NG heater, so I got nuttin'. That might be a topic for another thread.

If I understand this correctly, I want to run the pump long enough to circulate the volume of the pool once or twice a day to keep the pool water filtered. But also the right amount of time to generate FC through the SWG (keeping the FC between 5-7).

No, that's old school. Read/reread this.

When I asked "Where are you getting this?" I wasn't referring to your test results, but rather your notion that your CH and CYA were high. CH360 is just ten above the low range for SWG pool. CYA70 is also at the low end of the SWG range.

Question: What should I set my salt target to in pMath?

Sorry, I miss read that. I thought you meant what should you enter into Pool Math for salt (like for the CSI math). You enter what you get from the Taylor test. Not what the SWG is telling you. For target? I used the low end of the SWG's recommended range. I wanted my salt to be as low as the SWG needs to reliably work. Salt will build up over time, so I figured I'd start low and prolong the day I'll eventually have to exchange water due to too much salt. But that was when I was first adding salt. This is academic for you now, you have the salt you need, so it is what it is. You'd only really need the target amount if you were wanting to change the salt level.

Regarding pool guy... good riddance. The first thing I did when I found TFP? I changed my gate's code!

 

[Yorker]

When I asked "Where are you getting this?" I wasn't referring to your test results, but rather your notion that your CH and CYA were high. CH360 is just ten above the low range for SWG pool. CYA70 is also at the low end of the SWG range.

Ahh - I wrote that in my log last Sunday - That's when I realized pMath had diverted be back to my chlorine pool AND why now I check each time to make sure I'm on the correct pool. I've considered deleting the chlorine pool, but a little voice keeps saying don't.