Here We Go Again....Pool Build in Magnolia

[Azsunsets]

Wow! This is going to be fun to watch!

I prefer the straight steps in the 2nd design. Visually, and for practical reasons I actually think the straight steps make more sense.

Can't help with the SWG question, I'm still waiting to fire mine up.

Looking forward to seeing your project!

 

[jimim]

the curved steps from the patio. . . i can totally relate to this choice. we are doing 3 steps down from my pool to a lower patio with a large pool house. the steps stretch over 35 feet. we thought about curving the steps to match the pool since everything on the upper deck curves to match pool. bottom area will be squared off to match pool house. so we threw out the idea of doing curved steps with pavers and the retaining wall material we r using. we finally decided against it cause:

1. we have piers at each end of the steps and the curves would not line up at each end so each pier one pier would be further out than the other. not inline so that would look wonky.
2. the labor (which is my buddy and myself) was not worth the time to make sure everything was tight like doing them straight would be. the cutting would be a pain.

so would curves look cool ya pretty cool i think, but in my case the piers were the deciding factor. the labor was number 2. if i didn't have piers would i go curve. prob not cause i would just stare at any wonky gaps that might come up with the curves while building the risers for the steps. the threads would be easy cause it would be like doing coping on curves. pretty easy. but using retaining wall material for the risers to form the curves would be a pain.

jim

I'm glad we are thinking alike.

I don't like the drop for the fire pit. For me, it is moreso a good place to trip while trying to get around some chairs down there.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about the curved steps. You're right, it does go good with the curves of the spa and tanning ledge. I think the straight steps are a little grander looking but the curves keep with the flow.

The PB has a nice showroom with his both his pools surrounded by washed aggregate. One deck is just a few years old while the other is over 10. Both felt good under the feet even when baked in the afternoon sun. Much smoother than my neighbor's decking and about the same as another friends. I know a lot of that has to do with the pebbles used in the concrete.

No windows to worry about. I would have wanted it tucked around the corner of the house, but with the "efficiencies" of having it at the elevation of the pool and some tricks I know to hide the equipment along the fence through more fence and landscaping, I think it will be OK.

Appreciate the help Kim.

I think we are down to curved vs. straight steps and SWG vs. bleach.

 

[Paul & Crystal]

Hello Goob,

You have a beautiful project in mind here. I think both the curved and straight stairs off the patio look great, so I'm not much help on that. I guess the curved kind of provide a break from the angular for a bit of a visual interest but the straight ones look very classic. Either works.

Could you please list the length and width of the pool and the depth? Sorry if I missed that somewhere. Also, how much shallow end is there? It sounds like you have some children that are going to grow up with this pool. My children are grown but they are here almost every day to swim. I think the attraction for them is a 23 X 25 shallow end where they play basketball and volleyball. Floating around has its limitations on entertainment value. Just something to think about as your family grows.

My equipment pad is about 12 feet off the deep end of the pool. It has a brick wall that blocks it from view and I can barely hear it. Today's equipment is so quiet that about any kind of shield around it will make it virtually silent...even just some bushes.

Ok flagstone....there are many pools on TFP that have it with salt and do not experience issues...pooldv is one. You could PM him for his opinion. Travertine is also great. Either can be trouble free with properly balanced water.

Crystal

 

[SuzfromTexas]

Here goes.... I like the straight steps better.

In PB2's plan looking toward the house, if I'm seeing correctly, the tree planter gently curves on the poolside. I can't see on the drawing, but I'm assuming the house side of the tree planter is straight, making a lovely echo of the spa (straight on one side, gently curved on the other). The straight steps echo the straight lines of the pool on either side of the spa. Two sets of straight lines, each broken up with that simple and graceful shape of the spa. Reminds me of gentle waves on a beach. Brilliant design.

I'm not sure how to describe my next thought, but I'll try (AmyJo??) . In the basic plan, you have two core components - decking and pool. I like how in PB2's drawing, the deck and the pool each have strong straight lines (grand steps and strong rectangular sides of the pool).

For me, the total effect of the lines and curves in PB2's design is more relaxing and inviting.

Both designs are lovely. Whatever you choose will be a home run!

I have a SWG system - 2 years old. So far, so great! I agree with the mods, guides, and experts who have a good national view of pool builds - there is a definite PB bias in Texas re SWG pools, and it seems strongest in the Houston area. All of the PB's I interviewed were strongly against it. Only 2 barely agreed they would do the SWG for me. Maybe incentives from the fringe equipment companies (ozone, mineral, etc) are stronger here for whatever reason. But even my PB who only offered the rainbow puck chlorinator system discouraged the SWG. From living in this area for 40 years and having used lots of flagstone that failed quickly and miserably without a pool, I think it's a problem of the flagstone generally available in our area.
I have a travertine deck with a flagstone Texas star - granted, only 2 years old. My poor star is already flaking and doesn't look good. It's not even near the pool. The travertine looks great. Moral of the story - be very careful with the flagstone you buy whichever chlorination system you choose. Talk to some stone experts in the area who cut and work with it - not just the guys selling it.

Wish I had a crystal ball for you! Good luck!
Suz :sun:

 

[jimim]

I just looked back at ur pics. I forgot u had a rectangular pool. You know I like the curved steps better in ur design. They will look great I think and not hard to build. The straight r nice too but I think the curve gives it some more pop. Disregard my previous comment! Lol. I'll erase it later!

 

[Goob]

Edit.

 

[Goob]

Wow! This is going to be fun to watch!

I prefer the straight steps in the 2nd design. Visually, and for practical reasons I actually think the straight steps make more sense.

Can't help with the SWG question, I'm still waiting to fire mine up.

Looking forward to seeing your project!

I think that is what keeps us going back to the straight steps. They do have a more classic look.

I just looked back at ur pics. I forgot u had a rectangular pool. You know I like the curved steps better in ur design. They will look great I think and not hard to build. The straight r nice too but I think the curve gives it some more pop. Disregard my previous comment! Lol. I'll erase it later!

You can't change your mind now! JK. They are different and somewhat unexpected. Definitely not hard to build especially when paying someone else to do it. I can see what you are saying with the pain of doing it yourself.

 

[Goob]

Hello Goob,

You have a beautiful project in mind here. I think both the curved and straight stairs off the patio look great, so I'm not much help on that. I guess the curved kind of provide a break from the angular for a bit of a visual interest but the straight ones look very classic. Either works.

Could you please list the length and width of the pool and the depth? Sorry if I missed that somewhere. Also, how much shallow end is there? It sounds like you have some children that are going to grow up with this pool. My children are grown but they are here almost every day to swim. I think the attraction for them is a 23 X 25 shallow end where they play basketball and volleyball. Floating around has its limitations on entertainment value. Just something to think about as your family grows.

My equipment pad is about 12 feet off the deep end of the pool. It has a brick wall that blocks it from view and I can barely hear it. Today's equipment is so quiet that about any kind of shield around it will make it virtually silent...even just some bushes.

Ok flagstone....there are many pools on TFP that have it with salt and do not experience issues...pooldv is one. You could PM him for his opinion. Travertine is also great. Either can be trouble free with properly balanced water.

Crystal

Crystal, I like classic. Probably one of the reasons we chose this house and the design of our pool.

The pool is 17x34 (will update signature when we decide on the PB). Originally, we were going with a classic 3.5-6 pool but have decided that we are going to do a sport pool at either 3.5-5.5-4 or 4-5.5-4. Probably doesn't make much difference but we decided to not go deeper because-

1. We've noticed my kid is like a fish (9 yo at 5' tall already). Once he's in the pool he just wants to splash around and not get out very often to jump off the edge.
2. The pool parties we have been to recently show that people stay in the shallow end for obvious reasons.

We three are on the taller end of the scale. If we go with a 3.5' end, it would be so that our son doesn't feel like he only has his head above water all the time.

Thanks for the experience with the pad placement. It helps.

I've read pooldv's comments and seen his pics with flagstone and SWG. I probably will hit him up on info. I would think the water chemistry has a lot to do with it and is the reason pool builders and seeing issues with their customers.

 

[Goob]

Here goes.... I like the straight steps better.

In PB2's plan looking toward the house, if I'm seeing correctly, the tree planter gently curves on the poolside. I can't see on the drawing, but I'm assuming the house side of the tree planter is straight, making a lovely echo of the spa (straight on one side, gently curved on the other). The straight steps echo the straight lines of the pool on either side of the spa. Two sets of straight lines, each broken up with that simple and graceful shape of the spa. Reminds me of gentle waves on a beach. Brilliant design.

I'm not sure how to describe my next thought, but I'll try (AmyJo??) . In the basic plan, you have two core components - decking and pool. I like how in PB2's drawing, the deck and the pool each have strong straight lines (grand steps and strong rectangular sides of the pool).

For me, the total effect of the lines and curves in PB2's design is more relaxing and inviting.

Both designs are lovely. Whatever you choose will be a home run!

I have a SWG system - 2 years old. So far, so great! I agree with the mods, guides, and experts who have a good national view of pool builds - there is a definite PB bias in Texas re SWG pools, and it seems strongest in the Houston area. All of the PB's I interviewed were strongly against it. Only 2 barely agreed they would do the SWG for me. Maybe incentives from the fringe equipment companies (ozone, mineral, etc) are stronger here for whatever reason. But even my PB who only offered the rainbow puck chlorinator system discouraged the SWG. From living in this area for 40 years and having used lots of flagstone that failed quickly and miserably without a pool, I think it's a problem of the flagstone generally available in our area.
I have a travertine deck with a flagstone Texas star - granted, only 2 years old. My poor star is already flaking and doesn't look good. It's not even near the pool. The travertine looks great. Moral of the story - be very careful with the flagstone you buy whichever chlorination system you choose. Talk to some stone experts in the area who cut and work with it - not just the guys selling it.

Wish I had a crystal ball for you! Good luck!
Suz :sun:

Suz,

Great eye!

I was going to post this comment about someone else's suggestion about straight steps vs. curved and you saw it perfectly!

The planter is as described- flat on the side towards the house and bowed towards the spa and mirrors the spa which follows down to the tanning ledge with its curve. When my wife and I were going over some of the comments, that is what we locked on. The mirroring/complementing of the planter to the spa to the tanning ledge and likewise with the straight steps and straight edges of the pool.

I'll post the diagram that shows this better after I let the two PBs know which one we are going with. Superstition maybe?!

Gentle waves, ahhhhh!

I went looking for your flagstone star in your build but didn't see it, not that it would have mattered with its current condition.

Thanks for the advice. I'm trying to figure out if the TFP method is what is allowing flagstone to work better with SWGs, but from your experience, it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[BattleOfYakima]

PB will seal the flagstone and I will re-seal at the beginning and end of swim season myself. My PB said he will come and do it for me at no charge the first two times so that I will know exactly how to do it myself down the road.

I applaud you for being on top of the re-sealing. In addition to doing it often enough - be sure to be using a quality product; don't be afraid to PM pooldv or anyone else to ask what product they use, or even start a thread just for sealant recommendations if you have any doubts.

Thoughts on equipment pad placement? (...) In this 12', it drops a good 3'-4'. I can't imagine putting an equipment pad there.

As long as you select the correct inch diameter rigid plumbing, are smart about turns, correct valves at correct places, and select the correct motor for your final situation, TFP has taught me you can overcome a drop of well more than this without issue. I read you're not too concerned with noise, so I'll skip all that. My advise is not to bulid the wall/barrier too close to your hardware. You want to be able to move around in there and should you ever need to replace anything, add in automation, add a bleach or acid tank and pump, you want to have plumbing room to tie these in, in my opinion. It is only another 6 inches here or there, but if you go small as possible, you're locked in to what you have, which might be exactly what you want if you go SWG, but if not...leave the room.

Goob if it were me I would give very careful consideration to the tree/bush in the middle near the original patio. It looks great on paper but it seems like it will restrict the view from the main patio and house.

I think all your planters look amazing, but I'd caution you from blocking the pool view from the home windows. I'm not suggesting any adult would ever leave children/teens alone in the pool area, but let's say there was some sort of thirst or hunger emergency in the kitchen and an adult were to rush in there - they might want to be able to glance out the window and do a quick head count after stabilizing the kitchen emergency, before heading back out.

All 5 though, asked what I wanted and when I told them chlorine without the SWG, they were relieved. Two of them had gone back and retrofitted their saltwater pools to chlorine because of the corrosion on parts and equipment along with the effects on the stone. Again, I'm wondering if the TFP method is what is keeping this mostly at bay as I know that water chemistry has a lot to do with how the water feels.

It seems there is a balance with trusting PB and trusting TFP posts. When it comes to actual 'how will this go over the long term' issues - I trust TFP 100% because they actually live with it for the long term, where as the PB will probably never be back after 2-3rd sealing on most sales. As for SWG advice from PB, unfortunately I believe the logic of the situation is that there are simply more emotionally compelling reasons for them to discourage rather than encourage. Their bias being what it is, and nothing wrong with that perhaps, it is on you to stand up for what is best for you. If you want a SWG because it is best for your marriage, then where is the further argument? Pick a stone that works, pick a seal that works, schedule it, budget it, don't skimp. Moving on. (is how I would do it, and I do have a lot of respect for you investigating this all so responsibly and respectably with regards to the burden the daily pool care would put on your wife). If you don't want the SWG, at least consider the underground tank with bleach and auto-add pump for her, right?

I don't like the drop for the fire pit. For me, it is moreso a good place to trip while trying to get around some chairs down there.

This was actually my first thought in general about all your steps. They look amazing. Fact. Whether you go straight or curved, so decadent and clean. Perhaps some small stair lighting is merited in an attempt to reduce trips/falls. Perhaps investigate some ramping options?

Lastly, given the slope of your yard, wouldn't splash out water all run down and fill the recessed fire pit area and have a stagnant water pool that would require manual cleaning/draining? If you go with the sunken pit, maybe it needs a drain.

Overall, it is a stunning backyard transformation that is sure to be the backdrop for countless experiences and memories. Feel free to ask infinite questions in this thread, we love it.

 

[SuzfromTexas]

I am so glad Battle suggested lighting for the steps. With this type of build, I would imagine either PB would include it, but we never know, do we!!! I am always very focused on steps and other people's steps since I had hip trouble. I briefly thought about this for you, but it just skipped right across my brain and was gone. Lol!!!

The lighting will definitely be needed for the night, but people can still trip during the daytime. I'm not clear what you plan to use for the decking material there (sorry if you said already), but maybe some sort of soldier trim could be used on the edges of the steps. I've seen that done with flagstone, too, if that's what you plan for the steps. It's beautiful. I'll try to find some pictures if you're interested. It is subtle, but it does give an almost subconscious heads-up that edges are ahead.

Now my biggest deal on steps is the height of the risers or how big a step up and down it takes. With my hip issues, 6" was about the highest I could manage even with a cane. I know, you're probably decades younger than me, but you never know when nature will have something else in mind way before you reach my old decrepid age - blow out a knee, break an ankle, begin arthritis earlier than usual, etc. My pool steps are each 6" high. I'm not the only one who loves them. Kids, elderly, teens, and every other age group just love my steps. They saved me from dreading using my pool, and now I can almost go up and down without holding onto the edge of the spa. That wouldn't be happening now if the steps were the usual 10-12" pool steps. If you don't see that as important in the pool, still think about it for the terrace steps. Btw, my batting average is just about 0 for selling anyone on short step heights...... sighhhhhhhhh. So don't feel too bad if you don't either. But when grandma or grandpa come to visit or you tear up your knee, just remember what old Suz told you!!! Ok, rant over!

 

[Paul & Crystal]

I have four 6 inch steps in the pool. My grand daughters love to hang out there. Ages 5 and 7. They are great for learning to swim and I use them for all kinds exercises.

 

[Goob]

As long as you select the correct inch diameter rigid plumbing, are smart about turns, correct valves at correct places, and select the correct motor for your final situation, TFP has taught me you can overcome a drop of well more than this without issue. I read you're not too concerned with noise, so I'll skip all that. My advise is not to bulid the wall/barrier too close to your hardware. You want to be able to move around in there and should you ever need to replace anything, add in automation, add a bleach or acid tank and pump, you want to have plumbing room to tie these in, in my opinion. It is only another 6 inches here or there, but if you go small as possible, you're locked in to what you have, which might be exactly what you want if you go SWG, but if not...leave the room.


I think all your planters look amazing, but I'd caution you from blocking the pool view from the home windows. I'm not suggesting any adult would ever leave children/teens alone in the pool area, but let's say there was some sort of thirst or hunger emergency in the kitchen and an adult were to rush in there - they might want to be able to glance out the window and do a quick head count after stabilizing the kitchen emergency, before heading back out.


It seems there is a balance with trusting PB and trusting TFP posts. When it comes to actual 'how will this go over the long term' issues - I trust TFP 100% because they actually live with it for the long term, where as the PB will probably never be back after 2-3rd sealing on most sales. As for SWG advice from PB, unfortunately I believe the logic of the situation is that there are simply more emotionally compelling reasons for them to discourage rather than encourage. Their bias being what it is, and nothing wrong with that perhaps, it is on you to stand up for what is best for you. If you want a SWG because it is best for your marriage, then where is the further argument? Pick a stone that works, pick a seal that works, schedule it, budget it, don't skimp. Moving on. (is how I would do it, and I do have a lot of respect for you investigating this all so responsibly and respectably with regards to the burden the daily pool care would put on your wife). If you don't want the SWG, at least consider the underground tank with bleach and auto-add pump for her, right?


This was actually my first thought in general about all your steps. They look amazing. Fact. Whether you go straight or curved, so decadent and clean. Perhaps some small stair lighting is merited in an attempt to reduce trips/falls. Perhaps investigate some ramping options?

Lastly, given the slope of your yard, wouldn't splash out water all run down and fill the recessed fire pit area and have a stagnant water pool that would require manual cleaning/draining? If you go with the sunken pit, maybe it needs a drain.

Overall, it is a stunning backyard transformation that is sure to be the backdrop for countless experiences and memories. Feel free to ask infinite questions in this thread, we love it.

Great points, all.

Pad will definitely have lots of room. I'm considering making the entire front one big double gate to allow access to the entire pad without getting in the enclosure.

I just went back and imagined the planter with a tree in it compared to where the pool will sit. Because of the drop between the different decks, a tree that I can trim to a high canopy would actually be best as one would see under the canopy. If I were to put bushes there, it would block the view. Fortunately, I don't have to commit to any vegetation there even with a planter until after everything is built and can get a better view of what is going on there.

Thanks for the kind words in my research. I am assuming that the tank and auto-add pump is the Stenner pump stuff that others are talking about. You mention adding this solution if not using a SWG which interests me, but are others adding this even if they have a SWG for the winter months when the SWG isn't producing chlorine because it doesn't work well at certain colder temps? Definitely an ignorant area for me as I have just stumbled across the Stenner pump threads.

Didn't think of a ramp! May have to. As for lights, boy are they pricey! I may add some in later as they have some that attach under the step part that hangs out over the vertical face of the step.

 

[Goob]

I am so glad Battle suggested lighting for the steps. With this type of build, I would imagine either PB would include it, but we never know, do we!!! I am always very focused on steps and other people's steps since I had hip trouble. I briefly thought about this for you, but it just skipped right across my brain and was gone. Lol!!!

The lighting will definitely be needed for the night, but people can still trip during the daytime. I'm not clear what you plan to use for the decking material there (sorry if you said already), but maybe some sort of soldier trim could be used on the edges of the steps. I've seen that done with flagstone, too, if that's what you plan for the steps. It's beautiful. I'll try to find some pictures if you're interested. It is subtle, but it does give an almost subconscious heads-up that edges are ahead.

Now my biggest deal on steps is the height of the risers or how big a step up and down it takes. With my hip issues, 6" was about the highest I could manage even with a cane. I know, you're probably decades younger than me, but you never know when nature will have something else in mind way before you reach my old decrepid age - blow out a knee, break an ankle, begin arthritis earlier than usual, etc. My pool steps are each 6" high. I'm not the only one who loves them. Kids, elderly, teens, and every other age group just love my steps. They saved me from dreading using my pool, and now I can almost go up and down without holding onto the edge of the spa. That wouldn't be happening now if the steps were the usual 10-12" pool steps. If you don't see that as important in the pool, still think about it for the terrace steps. Btw, my batting average is just about 0 for selling anyone on short step heights...... sighhhhhhhhh. So don't feel too bad if you don't either. But when grandma or grandpa come to visit or you tear up your knee, just remember what old Suz told you!!! Ok, rant over!

I'm sure the lights are not included. As mentioned above, pricey. I have some ideas on lighting the steps for even after the build, but yes, it is a concern.

The steps are 6" and each one is edged with flagstone (or whatever stone is used). My mom has had both hips replaced along with a knee. This pool will be a workout for her one way or another!

As for the pool steps, they are 9". We may add another pool step based on what height we have for the shallow part. Is that enough middle ground for getting your first base hit?! I'm worried that we will eat up too much pool if we go to 6" steps.

I have four 6 inch steps in the pool. My grand daughters love to hang out there. Ages 5 and 7. They are great for learning to swim and I use them for all kinds exercises.

 

[ap2002]

on the SWG topic, when we first got our first quote, pool design from our pool builder without us telling him anything, he chose SWG and flagstone coping.... he said he always and strongly suggest SWG, he said he always gives his quotes including the SWG, unless customers request otherwise,..... and he has nothing against the flagstone, so from reading on here it must depend on what kind and where from the flagstone comes from.... when we asked about the travertine upgrade, he said that the only reasons he has heard customers wanting travertine vs flagstone is due to the roughness, his example said that ladys may complain about the flagstone when sitting on the edge of the pool and the flagstone feeling a little rough when sliding back in the pool? makes some sense.... and the travertine is more of a slick surface for that example.

 

[AmyJo]

We are converting to SWG from regular chlorine and cannot wait!

Your son will continue to get taller, but your water depths will remain the same. As long as his head is above water, I wouldn't worry about keeping it at four feet. If you're all tall, chances he will be too! I always vote for 4 ft for shallow depth unless you have little children.

 

[Tony411LA]

We are converting to SWG from regular chlorine and cannot wait!

Your son will continue to get taller, but your water depths will remain the same. As long as his head is above water, I wouldn't worry about keeping it at four feet. If you're all tall, chances he will be too! I always vote for 4 ft for shallow depth unless you have little children.

I agree with AmyJo, young children only grow. So, trying to accommodate them right now, in this moment in time is shortsighted, since you can't readily increase the depth in 2-3 years. Going a little deeper now, will work out in the long run. Regarding the curved, versus straight stairs, I agree the straight are much more classic and will look great.

 

[Big Will]

Well looks like all basis were covered so I just want to say hello and I like the design lol
Oh and 4ft for shallow is great, my little one can't reach but he doesn't care and all he does is jump in the pool .... that's what boys do

 

[ponygirl]

I like everything about pool #2 except the firepit area. I prefer the shape and size, but not the step down, of the fire pit area of #1. Reason being flexibility for placement of chairs based on the direction of the wind. Seating options to avoid smoke in your eyes is very important! And the larger size will accommodate more people. Other than that #2 is great!

 

[Goob]

We are converting to SWG from regular chlorine and cannot wait!

Your son will continue to get taller, but your water depths will remain the same. As long as his head is above water, I wouldn't worry about keeping it at four feet. If you're all tall, chances he will be too! I always vote for 4 ft for shallow depth unless you have little children.

I agree with AmyJo, young children only grow. So, trying to accommodate them right now, in this moment in time is shortsighted, since you can't readily increase the depth in 2-3 years. Going a little deeper now, will work out in the long run. Regarding the curved, versus straight stairs, I agree the straight are much more classic and will look great.

Well looks like all basis were covered so I just want to say hello and I like the design lol
Oh and 4ft for shallow is great, my little one can't reach but he doesn't care and all he does is jump in the pool .... that's what boys do

OK, 4ft it is.

I like everything about pool #2 except the firepit area. I prefer the shape and size, but not the step down, of the fire pit area of #1. Reason being flexibility for placement of chairs based on the direction of the wind. Seating options to avoid smoke in your eyes is very important! And the larger size will accommodate more people. Other than that #2 is great!

Great catch!

The PB didn't think the pad would allow the extra room because he had a measurement showing the fence being too close. I think I have another 8' or so and plan on adding about 3' of radius.

Will talk to pool builders tomorrow with our decision and then start filling in the remaining blanks- parts, dimensions, etc.