New owner-builder (kinda) in Arizona

[Azsunsets]

Just stand there and look out over your pool and think..........."They better be glad Kim and Will are not there" if they start giving you grief LOL I would give them the "teacher stare" and Will would stand behind me with his arms crossed. They would be scrambling to fix each and every one of the ones your marked! LOL

Don't back down. State the facts without emotion. "The ones I marked need to be replaced." No please or anything. It is a statement of fact stated with a smile on your face with a cooler full of water and gatorade. It is YOUR money and YOU will get to look at it every day so get it how YOU want it!

we will be there in spirit!

Kim

Ha! I hope I don't need reinforcements, but nice to know you guys are here in spirit!

So far, they are still on the job & he seemed okay with it - I think.

 

[SuzfromTexas]

I wish I had seen this sooner. Before the paver guys leave for good, make sure they replaced the pavers you want replaced. I know, that sounds like a dumb thing to say, but when I wasn't home, my paver guys just filled in the large holes with some kind of putty. When I returned, I looked quickly at the deck and no longer saw those ugly pieces thinking they had replaced them (and why wouldn't I assume that, right?!) A few days later, I saw the putty that was a bit off color from the rest of the stone used in all the pieces I had pointed out to the supervisor. I was not happy, but decided I had more important things going on. Luckily, most of the places with putty have aged so they blend in better now. I should have called and let them have it, but I was too tired of dealing with workmen and supervisors.

In my next lifetime when I build a pool, I'm going to do Owner Build. Seriously, even me! It's ridiculous to pay a PB when I was the one who had to oversee everything for quality control. With TFP, the internet, and access to good subs, do it yourself and save a ton of money. I can see why OB's are contagious in areas like Arizona and Las Vegas. Ya'll have a great network of info on subs and support for each other. Very smart! Ok, rant over!

 

[Azsunsets]

I wish I had seen this sooner. Before the paver guys leave for good, make sure they replaced the pavers you want replaced. I know, that sounds like a dumb thing to say, but when I wasn't home, my paver guys just filled in the large holes with some kind of putty. When I returned, I looked quickly at the deck and no longer saw those ugly pieces thinking they had replaced them (and why wouldn't I assume that, right?!) A few days later, I saw the putty that was a bit off color from the rest of the stone used in all the pieces I had pointed out to the supervisor. I was not happy, but decided I had more important things going on. Luckily, most of the places with putty have aged so they blend in better now. I should have called and let them have it, but I was too tired of dealing with workmen and supervisors.

In my next lifetime when I build a pool, I'm going to do Owner Build. Seriously, even me! It's ridiculous to pay a PB when I was the one who had to oversee everything for quality control. With TFP, the internet, and access to good subs, do it yourself and save a ton of money. I can see why OB's are contagious in areas like Arizona and Las Vegas. Ya'll have a great network of info on subs and support for each other. Very smart! Ok, rant over!

Oh, yeah!! I'm on it! When they are working, I barely leave the house. I'm sure they think I'm creepy!

I'm mostly concerned with the pavers close to the pool - within 4-5 feet.

Thank you for giving my a heads up!

 

[Azsunsets]

The only thing left are the umbrella sleeves & the basketball sleeve.



I'm still trying to get my returns adjusted properly.
It seems like I could have used at least 1 more return to me, but the designer said it was fine.
If anyone has any ideas on the best way to set the return up, please chime in! Thanks!!

 

[Big Will]

What do you mean trying to get the returns adjusted properly?
I'm learning so I want to make sure I do the same thing lol
Also I notice my pool doesn't have water movement in the deep end and the returns don't blow as hard. Is this normal? The shallow end has a lot of power


And I love EVERYTHING about your pool! You did an amazing job

 

[Azsunsets]

Thanks! Yours is much more amazingly & has way more bling!!
I'm trying to figure out how the returns should be positioned. The "eyeball" inside the return can move around when you loosen the threaded ring (sorry, not sure what it's called). Then when you get it pointed in the proper direction, you tighten that ring to keep it in place.

My other pool, at my rental, has great flow in a counter clockwise direction & all the floating debris beg to get into the skimmer.

This new pool however, is a different story! I don't know if I'm just not seeing how they intended the water to flow - I've tried clockwise & counter clockwise, without too much success. There are lots of dead spots, so the water doesn't move the debris to the skimmer. Along the back wall, there is only one return at the bench, across from the Baja. That's a long stretch with no returns. I double checked with the design company about that area, the flow, number of returns, and they said it was totally fine.... maybe it's just me, but so far I can't make it work very well.

Did you have someone do your start up for you? I guess that person usually helps with adjusting them.
I hope yours flows better than mine.

Oh yeah, check each return to make sure there is no plaster stuck inside. I found a chunk of blue plaster in one of mine.

I'm not sure about reduced flow in the deep end reruns, but I'm sure someone on here does!!

 

[Azsunsets]

What do you mean trying to get the returns adjusted properly?
I'm learning so I want to make sure I do the same thing lol
Also I notice my pool doesn't have water movement in the deep end and the returns don't blow as hard. Is this normal? The shallow end has a lot of power


And I love EVERYTHING about your pool! You did an amazing job

I replied to your question/comment, but forgot to use "reply"

 

[Big Will]

I do have a start up guy so I will have to ask him. I notice both deep end returns do not make the water move and that's what made me stick my hand end and feel them. Tomorrow morning I'll have to go mess with the returns to see if something is inside or the eyeball maybe is sodeways.
I had no idea you point the return to the optimal position to push the water toward the skimmer but that made perfect sense once you said it
I will be watching this one to see what the experts say so I can follow along and do it on my pool.
Right now I'm still just trying to figure out how to work the controls lol and I want my spillway on automation

 

[Azsunsets]

I do have a start up guy so I will have to ask him. I notice both deep end returns do not make the water move and that's what made me stick my hand end and feel them. Tomorrow morning I'll have to go mess with the returns to see if something is inside or the eyeball maybe is sodeways.
I had no idea you point the return to the optimal position to push the water toward the skimmer but that made perfect sense once you said it
I will be watching this one to see what the experts say so I can follow along and do it on my pool.
Right now I'm still just trying to figure out how to work the controls lol and I want my spillway on automation

I know! It's a lot to learn. We will get it figured out - we have a lot of great help on here too [emoji847]

I was looking online for information on setting up returns.
There are some differing opinions on the subject. Some say to create a circular flow & also point up enough to create a slight ripple on the waters surface. Others say no ripple, and point one down. Even others say, depending upon your pool, you may not want to necessarily create a circular pattern at all.
Um, I'm more confused now. I have a feeling that it just depends on your pool layout & maybe if it's not working in a circular pattern, you have to try other things.
Ask your start up guy!
I think I need a real start up guy!! That automation guy didn't do too much for me.

 

[needsajet]

I think the differing opinions are probably related to the differences in pools and their owner's objectives.

I like one return pointed down a bit to help turn the water over and keep the temperature even, but if I wasn't getting good enough skimming, I probably wouldn't do that. If you have a main drain and draw a wee bit of your water from the drain, then you wouldn't have any temperature differences to worry about, and could use your returns more for getting the sort of surface pattern you want. There is also a technical need to have circulation everywhere in the pool. This is important to ensure that freshly chlorinated water is always available at any given surface and in every corner of the pool. This part seldom happens perfectly! But many people keep a cleaner of some sort in the pool, and cleaners are great at refreshing the water on the bottom and walls. Another aspect is that for me, skimming is the first line of defense in keeping leaves, bugs and dust out of the pool, and I like to keep the pool looking nice. Many people wouldn't mind a bit of stuff sinking and getting picked up by their cleaner. If you keep the pool covered a lot, then skimming is not so relevant. And nowadays with variable speed pumps, it gets a bit more complicated as to how much mixing, circulation and skimming you want vs. how little you'd like to spend on electricity. So I'd say there's no right answer for every pool and owner. With a bit of playing around with different aiming, then observing how debris moves, you'll find what works for you.

That's great advice to check for something blocking a particular return. Another possibility is that it's on a different circuit and needs a valve adjusted (not very likely). Commonly it's because they're on the same pipe as a previous return which is closer to the pump, so the first return jet is the path of least resistance and gets more flow. That can be cured by putting a return jet with a slightly smaller orifice on the jet closest to the pump, reducing the orifice size for all the jets, or revving up the pump if it's a variable speed.

 

[kimkats]

Needs in for the win again!

You do not want your return to ripple the water as this will cause the PH to go up. In fact that is how I raise my PH when it is needed.

Ping-pong balls! Throw some in and see what they do. This will be the best way to show you how your water is moving and where it is going. I wish your returns were on the the other side of the benches but they are were they are so we will make them work! Have fun keeping the kids from playing with the balls while you are trying to make them work LOL

Kim

 

[Foosman]

Interesting as I was just reading up on this topic yesterday. I ordered different size returns as I also read it's a good idea to use a smaller orifice on the return nearest the pump. I will experiment. My plumber only put in 3 returns and for the life of me I can't figure out what he was thinking.

 

[Azsunsets]

I think the differing opinions are probably related to the differences in pools and their owner's objectives.

I like one return pointed down a bit to help turn the water over and keep the temperature even, but if I wasn't getting good enough skimming, I probably wouldn't do that. If you have a main drain and draw a wee bit of your water from the drain, then you wouldn't have any temperature differences to worry about, and could use your returns more for getting the sort of surface pattern you want. There is also a technical need to have circulation everywhere in the pool. This is important to ensure that freshly chlorinated water is always available at any given surface and in every corner of the pool. This part seldom happens perfectly! But many people keep a cleaner of some sort in the pool, and cleaners are great at refreshing the water on the bottom and walls. Another aspect is that for me, skimming is the first line of defense in keeping leaves, bugs and dust out of the pool, and I like to keep the pool looking nice. Many people wouldn't mind a bit of stuff sinking and getting picked up by their cleaner. If you keep the pool covered a lot, then skimming is not so relevant. And nowadays with variable speed pumps, it gets a bit more complicated as to how much mixing, circulation and skimming you want vs. how little you'd like to spend on electricity. So I'd say there's no right answer for every pool and owner. With a bit of playing around with different aiming, then observing how debris moves, you'll find what works for you.

That's great advice to check for something blocking a particular return. Another possibility is that it's on a different circuit and needs a valve adjusted (not very likely). Commonly it's because they're on the same pipe as a previous return which is closer to the pump, so the first return jet is the path of least resistance and gets more flow. That can be cured by putting a return jet with a slightly smaller orifice on the jet closest to the pump, reducing the orifice size for all the jets, or revving up the pump if it's a variable speed.

Thank you!

I did read about the flow rate/pressure dropping off as you move farther away from the pump. I don't seem to have this problem, most of my returns seems fairly equal.
I do have the main drain plumbed so that it can be opened for cleaning debris near it. I will play with opening it a small bit. Does opening the main drain cause any other issues or concerns?

 

[Azsunsets]

Needs in for the win again!

You do not want your return to ripple the water as this will cause the PH to go up. In fact that is how I raise my PH when it is needed.

Ping-pong balls! Throw some in and see what they do. This will be the best way to show you how your water is moving and where it is going. I wish your returns were on the the other side of the benches but they are were they are so we will make them work! Have fun keeping the kids from playing with the balls while you are trying to make them work LOL

Kim

Ping pong balls are a great idea!! I actually threw a couple leaves in the pool while I was trying to adjust the reruns. Too late to add reruns , oh well, hopefully it will end up being okay.

 

[Azsunsets]

Interesting as I was just reading up on this topic yesterday. I ordered different size returns as I also read it's a good idea to use a smaller orifice on the return nearest the pump. I will experiment. My plumber only put in 3 returns and for the life of me I can't figure out what he was thinking.

Do you have dead areas, with little water movement? Does floating debris make it to your skimmer quickly?

I don't seem to notice a lot of pressure difference in my reruns. I will double check that today while playing with ping pong balls in the pool!

Good luck with yours, and if you find a solution, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[azgr]

The pavers look great - My pool is scheduled for tile tomorrow, final inspection on Thurs, then plaster next week on Tuesday.

I'm watching this thread closely to try to learn what to do once I have water in my pool.

 

[SuzfromTexas]

I only have experience with my one pool, so I can't answer the more technical issues. As the others have said, playing around with the returns is key to find what works best for your pool and debris that falls. I can see changing them to more upward if you have a season with lots of debris - leaves, debris from windy seasons, etc. My returns go in a circular fashion with maybe one small dead area. Remember, breezes will also help move surface debris. Now if you never have breezes, then you're out of luck. If your winds/breezes come from predominately one direction, you want your returns to do the same rather than fighting against nature. My breezes seem to change with the seasons, so I don't think it matters as much with my pool.

I don't like little 'floaties' in the pool while I'm swimming, so I have about half my returns pointed slightly upward to create the ripple. I have a 2 speed pump, and my pool school guy programmed the pump to run on high when it first comes on to really do a good job of skimming after being off at night. It's also on high for the last 30 minutes of the day. My low speed skims ok, but not as quickly as high speed. I like how that works, so I've continued to program the pump that way even when I change the hours it runs - for whatever reasons. I don't see in your signature what kind of pump you have, so this may not help.

The small debris really bugs me. I don't mind skimming during the leaf drop season, but it seems like a lot of effort just for the little stuff. I'm looking into the Solar-Breeze that AmyJo has. She seems to really like it. It's more than I want to spend right now, but I think she bought a refurbished one with good luck. The Solar-Breeze might help if you continue to have concerns about your returns.
Pool Cleaning Revolution Solar-Breeze NX

 

[Azsunsets]

I only have experience with my one pool, so I can't answer the more technical issues. As the others have said, playing around with the returns is key to find what works best for your pool and debris that falls. I can see changing them to more upward if you have a season with lots of debris - leaves, debris from windy seasons, etc. My returns go in a circular fashion with maybe one small dead area. Remember, breezes will also help move surface debris. Now if you never have breezes, then you're out of luck. If your winds/breezes come from predominately one direction, you want your returns to do the same rather than fighting against nature. My breezes seem to change with the seasons, so I don't think it matters as much with my pool.

I don't like little 'floaties' in the pool while I'm swimming, so I have about half my returns pointed slightly upward to create the ripple. I have a 2 speed pump, and my pool school guy programmed the pump to run on high when it first comes on to really do a good job of skimming after being off at night. It's also on high for the last 30 minutes of the day. My low speed skims ok, but not as quickly as high speed. I like how that works, so I've continued to program the pump that way even when I change the hours it runs - for whatever reasons. I don't see in your signature what kind of pump you have, so this may not help.

The small debris really bugs me. I don't mind skimming during the leaf drop season, but it seems like a lot of effort just for the little stuff. I'm looking into the Solar-Breeze that AmyJo has. She seems to really like it. It's more than I want to spend right now, but I think she bought a refurbished one with good luck. The Solar-Breeze might help if you continue to have concerns about your returns.
Pool Cleaning Revolution Solar-Breeze NX

Thanks for your input!

We do get breezes - I will have to pay attention what direction they usually come from. I have an Intelliflo variable speed pump.

I'm gonna get some ping pong balls & play in the pool today!

That Solar Breeze looks pretty cool!

 

[needsajet]

No harm drawing a small amount of water from the main drain and slight benefits, e.g. keeping chlorinated water in the pipe, removing the coldest water and recirculating it. It doesn't need to be much to achieve those benefits, plus you only want to take a wee bit away from your skimmer, so you only crack the valve a little bit.

 

[BigEinAZ]

My pool guy told me he spent a significant amount of time tuning the skimmer and floor drain proportions to get the right volume entering the skimmer without totally shutting down the floor drain. He also played with the water level some as that affects the skimmer as well. All I know is that once the cleaning cycle is done, there isn't a bug wing or leaf on the pool surface. I have the in-floor system so that may play into water currents as well.