Taking over pool care, don't know what I'm doing!

[JoyfulNoise]

As others have stated, the BioGuard Inhibit is polyquat-60. It is an algaecide and one of the few algaecides TFP would ever recommend using. However, we do not recommend using it on a regular basis but only during certain treatments (such as ascorbic acid treatments for metal stain removal). Some people do use it when they winterize their pools but being in Dallas, I'm not sure if you close your pool or not? Don't get rid of it because it is stable (keep it indoors) and it is generally more expensive than other kinds of algaecide which are less effective.

The scale inhibitor is only needed if you have a scale or metal problem? Do you have well water filling this pool or municipal water? Did you ever have metal stain problems in the past? It contains a chemical compound called HEDP which is mainly used to control both calcium and metal scale. It's not something one would regularly use and it is safe to store if you want to keep it.

And finally the ph-Up is just sodium carbonate which would be useless in a pool like yours (you'll most likely be looking to lower pH not raise it). However, it is just pure washing soda and so you don't have to throw it away. Add 1/4-1/2 cup with every wash cycle and it works as a laundry detergent booster. Soda ash, or washing soda, is also used as a dye mordant when tie-dying white tee shirts. Arm & Hammer sells it as a laundry product in some of the big box stores like Walmart. There's nothing special about it being branded for pool use it's literally all the same chemical.

 

[hepmama]

As others have stated, the BioGuard Inhibit is polyquat-60. It is an algaecide and one of the few algaecides TFP would ever recommend using. However, we do not recommend using it on a regular basis but only during certain treatments (such as ascorbic acid treatments for metal stain removal). Some people do use it when they winterize their pools but being in Dallas, I'm not sure if you close your pool or not? Don't get rid of it because it is stable (keep it indoors) and it is generally more expensive than other kinds of algaecide which are less effective.

The scale inhibitor is only needed if you have a scale or metal problem? Do you have well water filling this pool or municipal water? Did you ever have metal stain problems in the past? It contains a chemical compound called HEDP which is mainly used to control both calcium and metal scale. It's not something one would regularly use and it is safe to store if you want to keep it.

And finally the ph-Up is just sodium carbonate which would be useless in a pool like yours (you'll most likely be looking to lower pH not raise it). However, it is just pure washing soda and so you don't have to throw it away. Add 1/4-1/2 cup with every wash cycle and it works as a laundry detergent booster. Soda ash, or washing soda, is also used as a dye mordant when tie-dying white tee shirts. Arm & Hammer sells it as a laundry product in some of the big box stores like Walmart. There's nothing special about it being branded for pool use it's literally all the same chemical.

Thanks, Matt and everyone for the feedback on the chemicals! We have municipal water and I don't recall metal stain problems. We have had white build up on the rock line and I'm not sure if that will come off. Is that calcium?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yes. White lines on tiles and rocks are usually calcium scale. The scale inhibitor might help but I doubt it without knowing what your full set of chemical readings are. If/when you get a test kit to measure them I can be more specific.

Honestly speaking, using lots of calcium scale control chemicals is the expensive way to deal with the problem of hard water and it's not very effective. As the old saying goes - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We can help you with the scale build up once we know more about your water.


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[kimkats]

Mama, Here is your next "job". Get yourself a small note book to keep your test results in. That will really help you learn your water and it's needs over time. I even make note of big weather events like cloudy all day, HOT sun, big rain, etc.

Please post a full set of test numbers as the last ones I saw were from 2/25 so it has been a week.

It would be interesting to see a set of tests from your house water. Don't bother testing for CYA on your house water as it has be added.

Kim

 

[hepmama]

Okay, new set of tests this evening. Filter was cleaned this morning, and I turned on the waterfall and let it run all day to aerate the pool. It had the service light on all day, I'm pretty sure. Water level is good.

FC = 3.5
CC = .5
CH = 325
TA = 80
CYA = 60
Salt = 2800
Water is 64 degrees

FC has gone down. Salt is a bit low still. Does the lower FC mean the cell is not working, or could it mean the cell is just dirty, or could it mean it just needs more salt? The cell says the salinity is 2.5 GPL (is that the same as 2500 ppm?). I am not sure what conditions impact how the cell works.

CH is now a bit low, too. TA looks good at least. Still need CYA.

I went back out just now to check the codes again and the pump was off so I turned it back on. The codes have not come back. I am not sure why the error codes went away. After letting it run for another 10-15 mins, it does now say the salinity is 2.4 and it has an "Add Salt" message but no service light on.

As far as the PoolMath, it says I need to add 37 oz bleach, 44 oz calcium chloride and 16 oz CYA. If I use the 2800 ppm salt reading, it says to add 20 lbs of salt, too. What do you all think about the PoolMath numbers? Is that what I need to add?

I checked my amazon order history and we did order the calcium chloride in 2014. Apparently it was 50 pounds. I am not sure if we have more or not, seems like that is a lot to have used up already? I will look around. I am not sure where he would store it if it isn't in the outside deck box we have some other pool stuff in. Does it have to be stored inside?

I'm sorry for the convoluted message, I hope it makes sense. Ask me more questions if I left something out or need to clarify! Thank you so much!

Kim, just saw your message before I published this - I have a note going in my Evernote with tons of notes. I am writing down so much stuff!! And it's on my computer and I can view it on my phone, too. It is way better trying to read my handwriting. I have not tested the house water yet. Is it okay to do it from a tap in the house, or should I turn on the pool filler and get it from there? The house is 16 years old.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

What is your pH?

1 "GPL" = 1 "Grams per Liter" = 1000 mg/L = 1000ppm, so yes, it is 2500ppm. But DO NOT ADD salt until the cell is inspected for scale. Low salt readings are often an indicator of a failing cell or a cell that has lots of calcium scale.

Speaking of calcium, I'm not sure what the previous advice was but you absolutely DO NOT need to add calcium to your pool. You live in the southwest (sort of) and water is hard (meaning it has lots of calcium) and so pool's in the southwest rarely if ever need calcium. Pool stores will tell you otherwise because they really want to sell you an expensive tub of overpriced ice melt. Your plaster is fine and you do not need any calcium. In fact, past additions of calcium is why you have white calcium scale. Funny huh? Calcium is being added to the pool raising the CH levels and the dangers of scale and yet, scale control chemicals are being added as well in order to keep the calcium levels under control. That's called shooting oneself in the foot.

Your TA and CYA are good, possibly a little high for TA and little low for CYA but those are easily fixed.

I think I read that a pool service guy looked at your cell and thought it was bad...I would not trust that diagnosis. If you can pull the cell and look inside it to see if the plates have white scale on them, that would be great. Also, it would be good if you could get an independent test of the chloride (salt) level. Typically one wants to use a chemical test for salt like the Taylor K-1766 salt test kit. We need to independently verify your salt levels to see if the cell is actually reporting a real salt value. The best case scenario is that the plates in the cell are scaled with calcium and that is why it is reporting low salt. We clean the plates of and viola! the cell will function again (hopefully....)..

 

[hepmama]

What is your pH?

1 "GPL" = 1 "Grams per Liter" = 1000 mg/L = 1000ppm, so yes, it is 2500ppm. But DO NOT ADD salt until the cell is inspected for scale. Low salt readings are often an indicator of a failing cell or a cell that has lots of calcium scale.

Speaking of calcium, I'm not sure what the previous advice was but you absolutely DO NOT need to add calcium to your pool. You live in the southwest (sort of) and water is hard (meaning it has lots of calcium) and so pool's in the southwest rarely if ever need calcium. Pool stores will tell you otherwise because they really want to sell you an expensive tub of overpriced ice melt. Your plaster is fine and you do not need any calcium. In fact, past additions of calcium is why you have white calcium scale. Funny huh? Calcium is being added to the pool raising the CH levels and the dangers of scale and yet, scale control chemicals are being added as well in order to keep the calcium levels under control. That's called shooting oneself in the foot.

Your TA and CYA are good, possibly a little high for TA and little low for CYA but those are easily fixed.

I think I read that a pool service guy looked at your cell and thought it was bad...I would not trust that diagnosis. If you can pull the cell and look inside it to see if the plates have white scale on them, that would be great. Also, it would be good if you could get an independent test of the chloride (salt) level. Typically one wants to use a chemical test for salt like the Taylor K-1766 salt test kit. We need to independently verify your salt levels to see if the cell is actually reporting a real salt value. The best case scenario is that the plates in the cell are scaled with calcium and that is why it is reporting low salt. We clean the plates of and viola! the cell will function again (hopefully....)..

Forgot to list the pH! It is 7.5.

I do not know why my husband added calcium? All I can guess is the CH was low according to PoolMath - it was right around the time he started using TFP. Note: I am not using any scale control chemicals. I think those in the photo came from my neighbor but we have never used them. They have just been sitting in the garage.

I just had a quick peek inside the cell when the pool guy took it off to look at it. I did not see anything that looked crusty in there but can't be sure. I saw metal stuff that looked shiny on the end where I was looking. Would a failing cell show error codes intermittently like this?

For the salt, I did use the K-1766 test. Should I take a sample to a pool store also?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Ok, so forget about calcium and scale control chemicals. Your calcium is fine. It can get low if you have lots of rainwater overflow and dilution. Always possible in your area but on average you'll likely have rising CH not falling CH.

As for the cell, if you can pull it yourself and post a picture, that would be great. They're not hard to remove as the couplings holding them on should only be hand tight. Just power everything off before you do it.

The plates are made of titanium metal but they are coated with a special metal oxide coating that looks dark grey or black in its original color. So a shiny silvery metal color could be a light amount of calcium scale OR it could be that the grey/black coating is gone and your seeing the shiny titanium metal beneath. Loss of coating does happen over the life of the cell and, if present, is an indication of eventual failure. Chlorine production will also decrease as the coating is lost.

It is very good that you measured the salt using the K-1766. So you are actually a little low BUT your water temperature is a little low too so that, with a possible coating loss, could cause cell errors. I don't know the Hayward codes or Jandy codes at all so someone else will have to chime in. I would say that it is probably ok to try to get you salt up to 3000ppm or 3200ppm by adding some pool salt. PoolMath can tell you how much. They're typically sold in 40lbs bags.

With a pH of 7.5, your water is really fine right now and I wouldn't adjust anything. Just keep muriatic acid on hand for pH control and that's about it.


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[kimkats]

So it sounds like you can get rid of the scale stuff. No need to keep it around. I wonder if you could get a dollar or two selling it on C-list or such in your area?

Kim

 

[Mavrk]

Okay, new set of tests this evening. Filter was cleaned this morning, and I turned on the waterfall and let it run all day to aerate the pool. It had the service light on all day, I'm pretty sure. Water level is good.

FC = 3.5
CC = .5
CH = 325
TA = 80
CYA = 60
Salt = 2800
Water is 64 degrees

FC has gone down. Salt is a bit low still. Does the lower FC mean the cell is not working, or could it mean the cell is just dirty, or could it mean it just needs more salt? The cell says the salinity is 2.5 GPL (is that the same as 2500 ppm?). I am not sure what conditions impact how the cell works.

CH is now a bit low, too. TA looks good at least. Still need CYA.

I went back out just now to check the codes again and the pump was off so I turned it back on. The codes have not come back. I am not sure why the error codes went away. After letting it run for another 10-15 mins, it does now say the salinity is 2.4 and it has an "Add Salt" message but no service light on.

As far as the PoolMath, it says I need to add 37 oz bleach, 44 oz calcium chloride and 16 oz CYA. If I use the 2800 ppm salt reading, it says to add 20 lbs of salt, too. What do you all think about the PoolMath numbers? Is that what I need to add?

I checked my amazon order history and we did order the calcium chloride in 2014. Apparently it was 50 pounds. I am not sure if we have more or not, seems like that is a lot to have used up already? I will look around. I am not sure where he would store it if it isn't in the outside deck box we have some other pool stuff in. Does it have to be stored inside?

I'm sorry for the convoluted message, I hope it makes sense. Ask me more questions if I left something out or need to clarify! Thank you so much!

Kim, just saw your message before I published this - I have a note going in my Evernote with tons of notes. I am writing down so much stuff!! And it's on my computer and I can view it on my phone, too. It is way better trying to read my handwriting. I have not tested the house water yet. Is it okay to do it from a tap in the house, or should I turn on the pool filler and get it from there? The house is 16 years old.

I would add some CYA and Salt. Your calcium is well within range, and until you know how hard your water is I wouldn't adjust it at all. The codes from the cell could have been as simple as "inspect cell" (happens after a certain number of hours and isn't a warning) or "low flow" or "low salt". A picture of your cell would help.

Did you add chlorine? Or is that from SWG? If you didn't add chlorine, then it looks like your cell is working fine. You might have to adjust the % output as the weather gets warmer. Plus, when you get your CYA up it will help keep the chlorine from going down as fast. Throw in half a bag of salt, put in the amount of stabilizer you calculated, and post a pic of the cell. Things are looking good.

 

[hepmama]

So it sounds like you can get rid of the scale stuff. No need to keep it around. I wonder if you could get a dollar or two selling it on C-list or such in your area?

Kim

Perhaps. I am a bit hesitant to ask for money for any of it because it has all been stored in the unheated, not insulated garage, not indoors as Matt recommends for the algaecide. I don't know if it is still "good" because our garage gets pretty hot in the summer here in TX. I've never seen anything freeze in the garage in the cold - we don't have much of that weather here.

If the garage is fine for it, I will keep the algaecide - what do y'all think?

 

[hepmama]

Ok, so forget about calcium and scale control chemicals. Your calcium is fine. It can get low if you have lots of rainwater overflow and dilution. Always possible in your area but on average you'll likely have rising CH not falling CH.

As for the cell, if you can pull it yourself and post a picture, that would be great. They're not hard to remove as the couplings holding them on should only be hand tight. Just power everything off before you do it.

The plates are made of titanium metal but they are coated with a special metal oxide coating that looks dark grey or black in its original color. So a shiny silvery metal color could be a light amount of calcium scale OR it could be that the grey/black coating is gone and your seeing the shiny titanium metal beneath. Loss of coating does happen over the life of the cell and, if present, is an indication of eventual failure. Chlorine production will also decrease as the coating is lost.

It is very good that you measured the salt using the K-1766. So you are actually a little low BUT your water temperature is a little low too so that, with a possible coating loss, could cause cell errors. I don't know the Hayward codes or Jandy codes at all so someone else will have to chime in. I would say that it is probably ok to try to get you salt up to 3000ppm or 3200ppm by adding some pool salt. PoolMath can tell you how much. They're typically sold in 40lbs bags.

With a pH of 7.5, your water is really fine right now and I wouldn't adjust anything. Just keep muriatic acid on hand for pH control and that's about it.


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Thank you for the info on the cell - I am a little scared of taking it off because I also have to get it back on but if they are only hand tight maybe I can do it. Let me build up some courage and get back to you.

 

[kimkats]

No worries about the stuff as you really do not need it. I would hold onto a couple if not all of the algaecide just because it is the good stuff and you might want it down the road. I understand not wanting to ask money for the other. Do what you want with it-give it away or give to the hazemat place. No big deal either way.

Mama, see if there are any ytubes for the cell you can watch and re-watch to make sure you know what to do.

Kim

 

[Mavrk]

error codes, LOL. 125 and 194.

Looked these up for you:
125 - Cell needs to be cleaned or replaced.
194 -Cell Current is 85% lower than desired and cell voltage above 19V (generates 125 code - Cell dirty
or needs replacement).

Probably just needs a cleaning since it went away.

Forgot to ask... how long is your filter running? Is it variable speed, or just single speed?

ETA: https://images.inyopools.com/cloud/documents/jandy-aqua-pure-error-codes.pdf codes start on page 24

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, this is why the cell needs to be pulled and visually inspected. See this video from INYOPools -

How To Clean a Hayward AquaRite Turbo Cell - INYOPools.com


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[hepmama]

I have no idea on the pump (variable or single) but I am guessing single? There is one part with the pump basket thing that says Jandy JHPU1.5, then attached to it is something that says Centurion B128. It is running 8 hours - I bumped it up a few days ago.

The codes were on again today when I was home for a few minutes and checked. Then just now when I went out, the codes were off.

I checked FC again and it is now down to 3.

I tried to get the salt cell off and my hands are not strong enough. I also cannot find a video for one that looks just like mine. I see one that is kind of boxy looking when I look up Jandy PLC1400, but the one we have is rounded. I think the original one was boxy. But since I can't disconnect it anyway, it makes no difference.

 

[hepmama]

Today the FC was down to 2.5 so I added bleach. Tried again to take off the salt cell and I just can't budge it. The pool guy must have strong hands because he put it back on. I may see if my brother can help me with getting it off next time he comes over. I thought it might be easy to replace until I looked at the cord - it goes into the controller box. I will have to see if I can find info on opening the box and disconnecting/reconnecting the power cord in there!

For now I'll just keep using bleach for chlorine. I would eventually like to get back to using the SWG!

Thanks again, y'all! I'm sure I will be back with more questions sooner than you'd like.

 

[kimkats]

I miss you already! LOL We LOVE to help so no worries!

Good job on using chlorine until you can figure out your SWG.

Kim

 

[ping]

For now turn the cell to 100% output and see if that raises the chlorine level. The cell might be failing if you see the codes come and go. The cell switches polarity to help keep it clean and if one side of the cell is bad it will give those codes. Do you know how old the cell is?

Make sure you continue to use bleach as needed until this is solved.

 

[hepmama]

For now turn the cell to 100% output and see if that raises the chlorine level. The cell might be failing if you see the codes come and go. The cell switches polarity to help keep it clean and if one side of the cell is bad it will give those codes. Do you know how old the cell is?

Make sure you continue to use bleach as needed until this is solved.

Good idea on the 100%. I turned it up and will see if that makes a difference.

I am not sure of the age of the cell. I have tried finding some record from buying the cell, but can't find anything. I am pretty sure this is the second one because I remember the first one was boxy and this one is rounded. I am guessing it is at least 5 to 6 years old.

I'll keep testing FC and add bleach as needed for sure.

Thank you!