I just got notification that my WaterGuru shipped. I should get it Monday. I’ll start a thread about how accurate it is when I get it.

Move aside TX, CA and AZ! It's time for some midwest action.

Pool company called. They will be out in 2-3 weeks to finalize pool size, bells & whistles and location.

Been waiting on the landscaper to draw up plans (for several months). We have been working with him on lots of stuff over the years so he's reliable. We have a weird backyard and need to scrape off the top 2-3 inches to level the ground. It's weird but we have a concrete step and we need to get rid of it before someone trips & gets injured.

We are #2 on the pool company's list. We decided early on in covid to put down a deposit. The dig starts February.

Will post plans when I get them! I'm, I mean "we're" so excited!

So we had another spring storm here in North Texas this past Monday night and I woke up Tuesday morning to a beautiful tan colored pool What's the best way to get this baby back under control? I have never had this much silt / dirt in my pool. I just cleaned the cartridge filter, brushed down the floor as much as possible based on being 'blinded' by the muddy water, I have the pumps running non-stop and the Dolphin robot is working the bottom. My plan is to keep cleaning the filter and manually vacuuming until it's gone. Any other tips or tricks?

I hadn’t checked in a while to see if the one I wanted was back in stock, and it is! I just ordered. Haven’t decided on pump/filter yet.

Pool weather comes soon around here, and I want to get this thing installed before it gets too hot!

TimeLine
Early June 2021 Started contacting pool builders and reviewing proposals
July 17th 2021 - Signed Contract with PB2 (See quote below) Contract Signed!
July 20th 2021 - Downloaded and learned to use Pool Studio
September 23rd 2021 - County and City Permits approved
November 22nd 2021 - Excavation has begun!
November 29th - Plumbing
December 2nd 2021 - Steel
December 6th 2021 - Gunite applied!
December 8th 2021 - Tile Installed
December 16th 2021 - Electric Installed
December 22nd 2021 - Water Feature and coping installed
January 25th 2022 - Deck Forms laid out
February 11th 2022 - Deck poured and concrete stamped
February 28th 2022 - Fence Installed!
March 25th 2022 - Plaster applied
March 28th 2022 - POOL COMPLETED!!!!!

Time Lapse Video of Build
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Hello everyone, my wife and I are very close to pulling the trigger on a new pool here in the Dallas / Fort Worth area. This forum has been an invaluable source of information, and so glad I found it when I did as we have zero experience with pools and this will be our first! We have talked with 4 different pool builders in the DFW area, and have narrowed the selection down to two different builders. I would love to get the forums feedback in the two quotes we are considering. Thanks all!!


PB 1 (Pool Builder 1)

Basics:
Decking:

Payment Schedule:

• Down payment - 500
• Due at start of Excavation - 35%
• Due at start of Gunite - 30%
• Due at start of coping - 30%
• Due at start of Plaster - 5%

Warranties:
=======================================================================================================================


PB 2 (Pool Builder 2 ***WE SELECTED THIS BUILDER****)

Basics
Decking:
Payment Schedule:

• Down payment - 1000
• Due at start of Excavation - 35%
• Due at start of Gunite - 30%
• Due at start of coping - 30%
• Due at start of Plaster - 5%

Warranties:

My pool is done finally. Here are the pics and details of all of the color and design selections. There is still work to be done - finish the new restroom, spray deck, landscape, clean up, etc. But we're enjoying the pool

We spent a LOT of timing making selections but we love how it turned out. One thing we were changed our mind about is Abalone in the plaster. I read about a lot of staining and didn't want to risk it. So, we went with a shining Toe-Tile and are happy with that decision.

• Water Line Tile & Spa Tile - Aquabella Naxos OD-144
• Coping & Water Fall - Silver Travertine
• Water Color - NPT StoneScape Mini Pebble Aqua White
• Tile for scupper and back wall - MSI Gray Oak 3d honed
• Toe Tile along steps - NPT Equinox Obsidian Black Steel

Landscaping (see updated photos down below)

• Blackstar Gravel (I wanted black beach pebble but the cost was 40X more - $30/yard vs $1200/yard)
• 24 x 24 Sendero Mica Porcelain Paver (from Lowe's)
• Maculata Bamboo (from Houston Bamboo Nursery)

Thread updated: 8/2/2023
_____________

Okay, I've been cruising this site for the last 6 months trying to learn as much as possible. I've come across several build threads and individuals that have been SUPER helpful! So in the spirit of this forum I will do my best to keep this thread updated as I progress through my build process. I was hoping to have this started in Jan, but we ran into a rather large hiccup right out of the gate. The location of our overhead powerlines prohibited us from doing a pool anywhere near where we had anticipated. So we did some research, hired a few subs and now we no longer have overhead powerlines. We re-routed new buried lines (away from the pool area) and upgraded our service panel to accommodate the extra pool equipment. It took a few months, but here we are... ready to get started!

I want a modern looking play pool that enhances the yard and creates a relaxing environment for the wife and I... but will ultimately be used for entertaining our 2 littles ones. (Currently 1 and 6 years old). Here's what I've got so far:

Pool Size: 19' x 30'
Depth: 3.6' - 5' - 4'
Area: 538 sqft
Perimeter: 98'
Volume: 14,680 gal
Baja: 7' x 14' , 14" depth
Feature: 4' sheer descent
Spa Size: 7' x 7'
Spa Depth: 3.6'
Spa Volume: 663 gal
Raised: 18"
Spillway: 4'
Jets: 8

Pool Equipment:
Pump: Hayward Tristar 950 VSP 2.7hp (x2, one for the sheer descent)
Filter: Hayward Cartridge 525
Heater: Hayward H Series 400k BTU
Salt System: Tcell940 (Included with automation)
Spa Blower: 2 HP Silencer Blower
Automation: Hayward Omni PL
Lights: Hayward ColorLogic 320 LEDs (5)

Skimmer: A&A Venturi (2 plumed on separate lines w/ separate valves)
Water Leveler: 10" AquaStar
Drain: A&A Dual AVSC pebble top
Spa Drain: A&A Single AVSC pebble top
Leaf Trap: A&A LeafVac
In-Floor Cleaning Valve: A&A Wave
In-Floor Heads: A&A Venturi

Pre Filter: WaterCo Multi-Cyclone Pre-Filter (x2, one for the sheer descent)

----------------
EQ Pad:
- 10' x 3'
- Automation panel
- A/C receptacle
- hose bib
- Running both soft and hard water to the autofill so I have the option.
----------------
Decking: Artistic Pavers DesertLock Cool White. Also Turf Hub Natural Blend Pro artificial turf for southern half.
Coping: Artistic Pavers DesertLock Cool White bullnose
Tile: Azure Black "Nightfall" Series
Finish: Stonescapes Mini Tropics Blue with Touch of Glass or PebbleTec Slate Blue with Shimmering Sea

Additional:
- 2 Alumawood Graphite Lattice Pergolas
- BBQ grill island (DIY frame)
- Raised planter (w/ 4 ft sheer descent)
- Concrete booth w/ fire table

I think that's it for now. I'll keep editing and updating as I go. The first draft of plans and concepts are attached. Feel free to hit me with ideas, suggestions, ridicule or mockery... I'm open and willing to hear it!

Got back from a week away. Pool was clear, but dull. FC 0 - aack. Added LC, bumped up the chlorine percentage...today the sparkle is BACK, and tests are looking good!

This article was published last November. The authors are affiliated with KIK Industries. KIK is a Canadian firm that basically is one of largest manufacturers of industrial chlorine products in North America. They manufacture liquid bleach for just about every non-Clorox branded bleach sold by various big box and grocery stores.

Basic gist of the article is that they isolated one of the enzymes that bacteria use when converting CYA into energy which, under certain conditions, can result in the formation of ammonia. However, the enzyme isolated in this paper converts CYA to a compound called biuret which can then be oxidized by chlorine into N2O and CO2. The catch is the enzyme works best when the FC is zero (because hypochlorite inactivates the enzyme). So, if it ever gets commercialized, it could be sold to consumers as a method of CYA reduction.

Something to watch.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone on the forum and show some pictures. This will be our 4th year having the pool and because of TFP, we have not had a single day that the water wasn't perfect and crystal clear. Only takes about 24 hours to get the water balanced when opened in the spring and after a few weeks I fall into a lazy routine of testing the water ever 2-3 weeks, although the pentair intelligence-chem system certainly helps a lot.

I was looking for a light for my AGP and didn’t want to replace my return or end up having to cut my top rail as seems common with the nightlighter. I took a chance and purchased a Champlain ACM-197C Skimmer face plate light even though I couldn’t really find any reviews, so I thought I’d share my experience here.

Only day 1, so I can’t speak to the longevity, but so far I’m pleased. It snapped right onto my skimmer plate without issue. Right now I just have the cord coming out the hole in the top of my skimmer cover, but it comes with a template to drill a 20mm hole on the upper area of the outside of the skimmer, and insert a grommet that the cord goes through. I’ll probably do this, since I got over my fear of drilling through the skimmer when I did my water bonding plate.

It didn’t seem to bright in the daylight but come darkness it gives a nice glow that illuminates the pool nicely.

We’ll see how long it holds up. There’s a one year warranty so at this point if it doesn’t survive the winter I’ll be covered next spring at least.

Hey guys! Its April 3, and yesterday I pulled back the cover to reveal crystal clear blue water. There was quite a bit of leaves that I had to remove, but man was it good not to see green. Just want to say thanks to all of you who helped me last year with my swamp. Looking forward to a new pool season with TFP!

I live in Australia, the pool market here is a little different to the US, different stores and brands. So this is to assist the Aussie TFP contingent as I'm sure some of them will have been told this story too.

So I needed to add a couple of bags of salt to the pool and I was over at Bunnings anyway and picked up a couple of bags of their Sunray premium salt. I happened to run into a freind who works in the pool industry and he promptly trotted out the old story about how I should buy it at the pool shop because the Bunnings stuff is cheap and nasty and is the first scrape off the salt pans and full of impurities and it will stain the pool and leave insoluble residues and so on.

So, is it true ? Short answer, no, it's not. It's utter bunkum.

So working in the chemical industry, I have spent decades assessing raw materials and looking at product specifications. So given that salt is a low cost commodity chemical, it doesn't typically pay to ship it internationally if it's locally available. The freight costs soon get bigger than the value of the product. So I suspected that Bunnings are sourcing locally. A quick google for Sunray salt specification found that it is indeed made locally by Cheetham Salt who are a company I have sourced raw materials from in the past and found to be a reliable supplier with good quality control.

There are two grades of the Sunray brand salt, regular and premium. The local pool shop sells the Mermaid brand. Guess what, that's also a Cheetham product and is made to similar specs to the Sunray premium brand from Bunnings. They're all refined salts, all 99.4 % pure. The regular Sunray brand has a slightly coarser particle size, a slightly higher moisture content and contains up to 2.5g/kg sulfate. The Mermaid brand is finer particle size and lower moisture content but also lists up to 2.5g/kg sulfate on the specification. The Sunray premium product spec, is also nice and fine with a low moisture spec and the spec does not list that 2.5 g/kg of sulfate. So the Bunnings premium product looks like it's actually more highly refined and better quality than the pool shop's Mermaid brand. I try not to add sulfate to the pool if I don't need to. 2.5g/kg in the salt is not a big deal, but it doesn't go away, except by dilution with fresh water. There is potential for it to build up over time and it's not particularly good for many pool surfaces or equipment if it is allowed to build up to high concentrations.

Cheetham also make the Ocean Ultra Fine Pool salt grade, which is a very fine particle size with no sulfate on it's specs but due to the fine particle size it contains potassium ferrocyanide as an anticaking agent which I would prefer to avoid as well. I'd rather sweep the salt around for a few minutes more than add an anticaking agent.

My other local pool shop, Poolwerx only sell their own brand of Salt, prepared to bet that it's a locally sourced product too but they don't have a specification for it on their web site, so it's impossible to know what quality it actually is.

How do you test for sulfate levels? Is the sulfate level likely to get high using dry acid to decrease pH using liquid chlorine following TFP guidelines?

That’s it, this weather stinks and I’m really bored!

Seeing how Mother Nature this year is being a jerk I’ve found myself bored out of my mind. To help combat this boredom I’d like to toss out a really simple contest to all of you here at TFP. A coloring contest!

That’s right, get out your crayons and get to it! Rules are simple, color the photo below. Doesn’t matter what you use to color it, just have some fun. Crayons, paint, chalk, iPad, brownie mix that expired in 2015, whatever. Just post a single photo of your masterpiece to this thread and have some fun. Please only post one submission per user.

The submission that has the most votes on May 1st will win three free years of a PoolMath subscription. Second place wins two years while third place wins one year. So, let’s get to it and enjoy yourselves while we all wait for the weather to turn from freezing cold to miserable hot………so we can do it all again with me complaining that it’s too hot!
Lee




Download a High Res version here…….

My SunAway Pool Equipment Pad Sun Screen was completed this week. It exceeded my expectations in both appearance and quality of workmanship and materials.

I really like it. Pool equipment really suffers here in Arizona and I know it will really help to keep those brutal Arizona UV rays off of my (mostly) new pool equipment.

I would highly recommend this company to anyone. Sun Away Outdoor Shades is a family business. They are currently doing installations in Arizona and South Central Texas. My Installer was Vince (one of the family members). He is phenomenal. Extremely professional and personable and just a really good guy. Excellent workmanship and he really has a lot of respect for your property, pool equipment etc. Super clean work habits and completely cleans up everything when he was done. Very attention-to-detail oriented in the design and workmanship. He works with the customer to insure complete customer satisfaction. Every install is custom designed and installed.

The metal they use is powder-coated extruded aluminum and they have a variety of colors to choose from. The sun-shade material they use blocks out approximately 75% of the sunlight and harmful UV rays.

They offer a lifetime warranty against any defects and they provide free estimates. They offer sun shades that are stationary (such as mine) and also pivoting, raised and free standing models.
If you are looking for a high quality sun shade for your pool equipment, please check them out at: SunAway.com or see them on facebook. I highly recommend them!

Okay! I couldn't find any example of someone else trying this on this forum, so figured I'd be the guinea pig and post about it in case anyone else gets the same crazy idea I had...

During the week of Christmas/New Years here in Dallas we had uncharacteristic high temperature...was over 80 a few days and multiple days of mid to high 70s. As a new pool owner (filled in October) that hasn't gotten a chance to use the pool much....we heated the pool up and had an Xmas day pool party!

Wanting to keep the pool heated for a week with the nighttime temps dropping into the low 60s (or lower), optimizing my energy bill, and making efficient use of my electric heat pump, I knew a solar blanket would be ideal. But, as a new pool owner I didn't want to drop $200+ on a solar cover that we may not end up using a ton, and I had no way of getting a solar cover the right size quickly between Xmas and New Years.

So...I made my own! Sam's Club has these roles of bubble wrap at $15/each. I needed 2 rolls to cover most of my pool except for the tanning ledge. So I got to work with two rolls of bubble wrap and a roll of packing tape...and wa-la! A redneck solar cover. Surprisingly, it seemed to work rather well:

1. Before the solar cover, the heat pump was running all day and night to maintain a ~20 degree heat differential with nighttime lows, couldn't make it to 90 degrees during the day (stayed closer to 80-85).
2. After the solar cover, the heat pump stopped running almost entirely during the day, stayed at 90, and would kick on at night to help maintain the temperature
3. When the temperature started dropping and we had freezing temps multiple nights in a row, the solar cover minimized my heat loss and it took 5 days with no heater running and the nighttime lows in the 20s-30s (1 night in the teens) for my water to drop down to the 50s.

I'm not sure how well these solar covers are supposed to work, and how much difference I'd see with a real one. But for $30 and ~an hour of labor, I have no problem with throwing this away, and it cut my heat pump bill in half last week and we got to swim daily!

Because pools are costly, require a ton of upkeep, don't ROI, and are just generally a bad idea.

That was before a wind storm in September knocked down our two trees of substance and destroyed the backyard that my wife had spent 13 years cultivating.
My wife was shattered and I told her... in a moment of weakness.... maybe we should just build a pool in the backyard instead?
Indeed.....



So I began to look into the process. How much could a pool possibly cost? 30k? 40k?
The most reputable builder of pools is about 1/3 of a mile from my house. So I called them and the next big 2. The other big 2 didn't call me back... after repeated attempts.
The most reputable told me that they were scheduling dig dates for.... February. 2022. It was September.
So I kept digging. I found a pool builder that had very favorable reviews but was small.
Another local pool builder responded to my inquiries as well.
PB 1 came to my house with a work truck, dirty boots, and told me he would have no problem building me a salt pool, and putting the equipment wherever I wanted. He was super accommodating and you could tell that he worked.
PB 2 was a nice guy and happened to be a graduate of the same school as me. Had a truck that had never had a tool in it and shoes that were sparkling clean. He had more opinions when it came to equipment location and systems.

PB 2 was 15k more than PB 1.

Both of the bids made my eyes water.... but what the heck.
Went with PB 1.

Pool Builder told me that I was on the schedule for late April and that I'd be swimming by summer.
Sounds good!

Mild winter in Salt Lake. Bad for water and snow, good for pool builders.
I get a call from my PB on March 15th. "We are going to come by tomorrow for some pre digging." Wow! Sounds great!
The next evening at 8pm a Kubota pulls into my driveway. We are digging tomorrow. You good with the plans I sent? If not, just tell me where you want the pool and spa.
PB had sent me a rending that looked good. I decided to move the spa closer to the pool but having staked everything a few weeks earlier, I liked the placement.
And boom.... we are digging.



PB is extremely hard working but requires me to make decisions really fast.
After a few snow and rain storms, multiple cave ins... he made everything right. Shotcrete was done on Monday and I've been watering it everyday since.
Hopeful to be swimming in June, but have realistic expections.

Next steps, need to bury the power line, get the coping/tile installed, backfill the plumbing and start on the the pavers!

Hi All!

I’ve been lurking around here for about 9 months while we were house shopping, learning along the way as we’ve not owned pools before but we were hoping to either put in a pool ourself, or buy a house with one. We’re finally done with the home buying gauntlet and ended up with an existing pool that looks crystal clear and is only about a year old, so I’m hoping it’s balance is in pretty good condition, however..

The last couple of times we were at the property (once a week ago just prior to closing the loan, and once today), we noticed that the AquaRite 900 is showing “4200” on its display and a red solid light on “No Flow”. Both times we saw this, the pool pump was actively running. I presume this means 4200ppm salt level which as I understand is well over the desired high point, and that it’s not generating chlorine due to not detecting any water flow through the SWG, is that accurate?

We own the house now as of a couple of days ago but haven’t moved in yet and it’s an hour away. I won’t be able to do anything pool related until this Sunday after we move in, so I’m trying go get a game plan on what my next steps should be. We asked the previous owners about the current state, but they’ve been completely hands off and told us they use a local pool guy who’s “one of the best around and has a waiting list”, but that was all they knew. The last time we were there, I did unplug the flow detector from the AquaRite and plug it back in, but that made no difference.

Does my assessment sound right, and if so, what’s next?

Thanks!

These pictures are approx 24 hours apart. Used 4 gallons of bleach so far. I also have a floater with pucks in it just for adding cya. Still cloudy, but getting there!

TFPC for Beginners

TFPC stands for Trouble Free Pool Care. The TFPC method of taking care of your pool focuses on using simple techniques that don't cost too much and work reliably in nearly all situations. Using TFPC, you avoid putting anything in your water that you don't need and which may cause problems. This allows you to save money and spend your time swimming, instead of driving to the pool store to buy yet another expensive solution to a problem you didn't need to have in the first place.

The keys to a beautiful pool are consistency, testing, and chlorine. You need to be consistent. Spending just a couple of minutes every single day can save you hours and hours of work later on. You need to test the water so you know what is going on and can figure out what to do to keep everything in balance. And you need to use chlorine.

None of the alternatives to chlorine works reliably and consistently in outdoor pools. Almost every problem people have with chlorine comes from pools that are not properly maintained. If you keep a chlorine pool the right way, people will ask you what you are using instead of chlorine. Almost all of the problems people associate with chlorine are actually problems that come from bad pool maintenance.

The best investment you can make in your pool is a top quality water test kit. Accurate water test results will save you time and money again and again. The TF Test Kits TF100, Taylor K2006 , and Leslie's Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit are the current stand-out choices on the market. All three include the FAS-DPD chlorine test, and are based on Taylor chemistry.


Testing and Adjusting

Every day you should measure your chlorine and PH, and adjust each as needed, based on your test results. Get into a routine of testing and adjusting the water at the same time every day. The best time to test and adjust is in the evening, but if another time works better for you, go ahead and do that. Once you get used to this simple routine, it will only take a couple of minutes a day.

Once every week or two you should test and adjust total alkalinity (TA) and, if you don't have a vinyl pool, calcium hardness (CH).

At the start of the season, and any time there has been significant water replacement, you should measure and adjust cyanuric acid (CYA). If you are using salt or borates in your pool, you should measure them at this time as well.

To adjust a level, measure your current level and enter it into the Now column of Pool Math. Enter your desired level into the Goal column. Assuming your pool volume has been entered correctly, Pool Math will then show you how much chemical to add to adjust the level. In several cases, The Pool Math will offer more than one possible chemical. In those cases, follow the advice below under the individual water test factors for which chemical to use.

When adjusting levels, it is usually best to work your way up towards your goal, instead of making the change all at once. First add perhaps 2/3rds of the amount indicated, allow that to mix into the water with the pump running for an hour for liquids, two to four hours for most powders, and a week for CYA. Then test the water again and continue adjusting from there. Chlorine is an exception to this rule: go ahead and add the full amount of chlorine all at once.


Chlorine (FC and TC)

Chlorine sanitizes your pool, killing bacteria, germs, and algae. Chlorine is used up in the process of keeping your pool safe, and is also consumed by sunlight. You need to add new chlorine regularly to maintain appropriate levels.

Chlorine can be measured as free chlorine (FC) or total chlorine (TC). TC counts both FC and combined chlorine (CC). You always want CC to be zero, and usually it is, so normally the TC test can be used to measure FC. But when something goes wrong, CC can often be greater than zero, and then it becomes important to measure FC and CC separately.

The FC level you are aiming for depends on your cyanuric acid (CYA) level. You can use Pool Math to find the appropriate chlorine level to aim for, based on your current CYA level. Enter your CYA level in the Now column and then look at the blue Suggested FC Levels section towards the bottom for the normal range. Or, you can use the Chlorine / CYA Chart for the min and target numbers. Each of those gives you a range of chlorine levels that may be appropriate for your pool. You never want the chlorine level to go below the lower number.

Add chlorine to the pool with liquid chlorine. Pour the liquid chlorine slowly into the water in front of a return jet. If liquid chlorine is impossible to find, you can use household bleach. Look for unscented or "original scent" and note the percentage. Avoid any scents, additives, or "splashless" bleach. Bleach is commonly sold at 6% strength but some discount brands are lower, occasionally much lower. Bleach is the exact same chemical as liquid chlorine - sodium hypochlorite.

It is also fine to use a salt water chlorine generator (SWG) to add chlorine to the pool instead of using bleach. All of the other possible sources of chlorine have problems, they add things to the water that you don't usually want, simply cost too much to be practical, or are too dangerous to work with. Dichlor and trichlor add CYA. Cal-hypo adds CH. Chlorine gas is hazardous to work with. And lithium-hypo tends to be very expensive. There are cases where you want to add CYA or CH to the water and so use of dichlor, trichlor, or cal-hypo may be justified for a limited time, but this is rare.


PH

PH is a measure of how acidic or basic the water is. PH below 7.0 can damage the pool surface and many pool heaters as well as causing eye and skin irritation. PH above 8.0 can lead to metal stains, plaster scaling, as well as eye and skin irritation. PH should always be maintained between 7.2 and 7.8, ideally between 7.5 and 7.8.

PH can be raised by adding borax. Borax is best added by pre-dissolving it in a bucket of water and then pouring that slowly in front of a return. Borax is available at most grocery stores and places like WalMart and Target. Look for 20 Mule Team Borax, sold as a laundry booster, in a green box in the laundry aisle.

PH can be lowered with muriatic acid. Pour the muriatic acid slowly into the water in front of a return jet. Muriatic acid is sold at places like Home Depot, Lowes, and local hardware stores. It is often out near the pool supplies but sometimes is in the paint section. It is also possible to use dry acid to lower the PH. Dry acid is easier to work with than muriatic acid but costs more and should not be used with a SWG. Dry acid is sold by pool stores as PH Down, Lo-n-Slo, and PH Reducer.


Total Alkalinity (TA)

TA is a buffer that helps you maintain your current PH. The higher your TA is, the more difficult it will be to change the PH. However, higher TA levels combined with aeration will tend to raise the PH. The ideal TA level depends on your source of chlorine, and in many cases doesn't need to be at all exact. The usual range is between 60 and 90, though slightly lower and noticeably higher numbers are acceptable in some situations.

TA is raised with baking soda. Baking soda can be added by spreading it across the surface of the deep end of the pool. Look for Arm and Hammer baking soda, sold in grocery stores in the baking aisle. To lower TA, you bring the PH down to between 7.0 and 7.2 with acid and then aerate the pool to raise the PH back up. Aeration can come from from a waterfall, fountain, spa jets, kids splashing, SWG, rain, air compressor, or by pointing a return up to the surface so it breaks the surface. That cycle, acid and aeration, is then repeated as many times as is needed to lower TA to where you want it.


Calcium Hardness (CH)

CH is added to the water so that the water will not dissolve calcium out of your plaster or grout. CH can also help prevent foaming in spas. If you have plaster, pebble, stone, or tile in the water, CH should be kept around 200 to 400. Fiberglass pools and vinyl pools with a spa should keep CH around 220. Vinyl pools without a spa should keep CH anywhere under 300, which usually means you don't need to worry about it much at all.

CH is increased with calcium chloride or calcium chloride dihydrate. Distribute either form across the surface of the deep end of the pool. Calcium chloride is sold as an ice melter. Calcium chloride dihydrate is sold at pool stores as calcium increaser, Hardness Plus, and various similar names. To lower CH, you need to replace water, or if replacement water is extremely expensive use a reverse osmosis water treatment.


Cyanuric Acid (CYA)

CYA protects chlorine from the effects of sunlight. The more CYA you have the less chlorine you will lose to sunlight each day. CYA also reduces the effective strength of the chlorine. At higher CYA levels you need more chlorine to maintain the same active chlorine level. If you have a SWG or get extreme amounts of direct sunlight on the pool, adjust CYA to between 60 and 80. Otherwise adjust CYA to between 30 and 50.

CYA can be increased by adding cyanuric acid, often sold as stabilizer or conditioner. Solid/granular cyanuric acid (CYA) should be placed in a sock and the sock put in the skimmer basket or suspended in front of a pool return. CYA is just about the only chemical you may need to go to a pool store to get although it is sometimes available at Lowe's or Home Depot. Check the label to be sure you are getting cyanuric acid since there are other products that use the words stabilizer and conditioner in their names. To lower CYA you must replace water, or if replacement water is extremely expensive use a reverse osmosis water treatment.


Salt

Salt is required by a SWG and can also be used without a SWG to improve the feel of the water. Salt can be dumped directly into the pool as long as you brush it around into a thin layer and leave the pump running for several hours. Use solar salt, sold for water softeners, to raise the salt level. Water softener salt is sold by places like Home Depot and Lowes. Look for salt crystals in the blue bags. Avoid iron fighter, rust remover, or any similar additives. You can use potassium chloride but it costs more to begin with and you need to use 17% more to get the same salt level.


Borates

Borates can optionally be added to the pool to help control algae, reduce chlorine usage, buffer PH, and improve the look and feel of the water. The process of adding borates to your pool is beyond the scope of this article.


Everything Else

There are many other pool chemicals sold: clarifier, flock, phosphate removers, enzyme treatments, metal sequestrant, non-chlorine shock, and many others. Most of these do have some use in very specific situations, but none of them are required in most pools. You should not use any of these chemicals unless you know that you are in a situation where they are required.


Conclusion

The leading cause of pool problems is simply ignoring the pool. Your pool is like a pet: it requires constant attention. The number two cause of problems is adding chemicals you didn't need and don't want. Not only do these extra chemicals tend to cost a lot but they can also cause problems.

Follow the TFPC method, spend just a couple of minutes a day taking care of your pool, and you can have a truly trouble free pool.

This post will describe the effects of using Cyanuric Acid (CYA) to lower active chlorine concentration in terms of breakpoint chlorination and the net resulting chloramine production. The basic breakpoint reaction was described by Griffin (1939), but the first reasonable detailed model was proposed by Wei & Morris (1974 -- in Chapter 13 in the same "Chemistry of Water Supply, Treatment and Distribution" book that has the O'Brien paper on the chlorine/CYA equilibrium constants). Subsequent improvements were made to the model by Saunier & Selleck (1976) and most recently by Jafvert & Valentine (1992) and Vikesland, Ozekin and Valentine (2000) which should be considered to be the best model to-date. The following is the paper (a link to be able to purchase the most recent two online is here and here).

Chad T. Jafvert and Richard L. Valentine, “Reaction Scheme for the Chlorination of Ammoniacal Water”, Environ. Sci. Technol., Vol. 26, No. 3, 1992, pp. 577-585.

Though the model lists 14 reactions, including both forward and reverse reaction rates, the dominant reactions are the following:

(1) HOCl + NH₃ ---> NH₂Cl + H₂O
Hypochlorous Acid + Ammonia ---> Monochloramine + Water

(2) HOCl + NH₂Cl ---> NHCl₂ + H₂O
Hypochlorous Acid + Monochloramine ---> Dichloramine + Water

(3) HOCl + NHCl₂ ---> NCl₃ + H₂O
Hypochlorous Acid + Dichloramine ---> Nitrogen Trichloride + Water

(4) NHCl₂ + NCl₃ + 2H₂O ---> 2HOCl + N₂(g) + 3H⁺ + 3Cl^-
Dichloramine + Nitrogen Trichloride + Water ---> Hypochlorous Acid + Nitrogen Gas + Hydrogen Ion + Chloride Ion

The first reaction producing monochloramine is by far the fastest. It is over 95% complete in one minute when the FC is around 10% of the CYA and the ammonia is much less than the chlorine so that the chlorine level remains fairly constant. With no CYA, the reaction is mostly complete in a couple of seconds. The subsequent reactions are far slower.

You can then see that hypochlorous acid participates in two reactions (after initially producing monochloramine quickly), one producing dichloramine and another producing nitrogen trichloride so the net reaction varies as the square of the hypochlorous acid concentration. You can see that nitrogen trichloride is broken down by dichloramine and the latter is produced with a reaction rate that varies linearly with hypochlorous acid concentration. So in the steady state, the amount of nitrogen trichloride is linearly dependent on the hypochlorous acid concentration. This can also be seen by the following rate reaction balance at steady state.

k3*[HOCl]*[NHCl₂] = k4*[NHCl₂]*[NCl₃]
Rate of formation of Nitrogen Trichloride = Rate of destruction of Nitrogen Trichloride

so, k3*[HOCl] = k4*[NCl₃]

The nitrogen trichloride concentration in the steady state is linearly proportional to the hypochlorous acid concentration. Since nitrogen trichloride is very volatile, this implies that the rate of outgassing of nitrogen trichloride may be proportional to the hypochlorous acid concentration since the outgassing rate is likely to be proportional to its concentration in the water.

A similar rate reaction balance for dichloramine gives the following.

k2*[HOCl]*[NH₂Cl] = k3*[HOCl]*[NHCl₂] + k4*[NHCl₂]*[NCl₃]
Rate of formation of Dichloramine = Rate of destruction of Dichloramine

and substituting the earlier steady-state equation we have

k2*[HOCl]*[NH₂Cl] = k3*[HOCl]*[NHCl₂] + k3*[HOCl]*[NHCl₂]

which reduces to

k2*[NH₂Cl] = 2*k3*[NHCl₂]

So the ratio of monochloramine to dichloramine is constant and independent of hypochlorous acid concentration.

We can look at the steady-state for monochloramine assuming a constant introduction of ammonia into the water.

k1*[HOCl]*[NH₃] = k2*[HOCl]*[NH₂Cl]
Rate of formation of Monochloramine = Rate of destruction of Monochloramine

so the ratio of ammonia to monochloramine is constant and independent of hypochlorous acid concentration. Finally, we can look at the steady-state for ammonia.

k = k1*[HOCl]*[NH₃]
Rate of formation of Ammonia = Rate of destruction of Ammonia

which says that for a constant rate of introduction of ammonia, the amount of ammonia, and therefore monochloramine and dichloramine (from above), are inversely proportional to the hypochlorous acid concentration.

Earlier models had reactions forming an intermediate, and the Jafvert & Valentine model has this as well, but it is not the dominant reaction in that model. The following shows the intermediate reactions such as found with Wei & Morris.

(5) NHCl₂ + H₂O ---> NOH + 2H⁺ + 2Cl^-
Dichloramine + Water ---> Intermediate + Hydrogen Ion + Chloride Ion

(6) NOH + NH₂Cl ---> N₂(g) + H₂O + H⁺ + Cl^-
Intermediate + Monochloramine ---> Nitrogen Gas + Water + Hydrogen Ion + Chloride Ion

(7) NOH + NHCl₂ ---> N₂(g) + HOCl + H⁺ + Cl^-
Intermediate + Dichloramine ---> Nitrogen Gas + Hypochlorous Acid + Hydrogen Ion + Chloride Ion

In the Wei & Morris model, there is no destruction of nitrogen trichloride, so it's rate of production is the product of the hypochlorous acid concentration and the dichloramine concentration. In the above, reaction (7) is more dominant than reaction (6). The formation of the intermediate NOH is a rate limiting step so dichloramine is built up and therefore the rate of production of nitrogen trichloride is linearly dependent on the hypochlorous acid concentration.

For a realistic example, consider a pool with 3 ppm FC and no CYA vs. a pool with 3 ppm FC and 30 ppm CYA. Both are at a pH of 7.5 (there is far more nitrogen trichloride produced at lower pH) and the temperature is 77F. If it is assumed that the chlorine level is maintained at a constant level and that there is a constant introduction of ammonia in the water at a rate of 0.1 ppm N per hour, then we have the following steady state amounts (using Jafvert & Valentine in a spreadsheet I made here):

OXIDATION OF AMMONIA
SPECIES ........................... NO CYA ............ 30 ppm CYA
Monochloramine ............. 0.02 ppm ........... 0.70 ppm
Dichloramine .................. 2.97 ppb ............ 85.42 ppb
Nitrogen Trichloride ........ 70.96 ppb .......... 2.35 ppb

You can see from the above that with no CYA in the water, there is less monochloramine and dichloramine but more nitrogen trichloride compared to having CYA in the water. The differences are roughly a factor of the CYA level because that is roughly the difference in the hypochlorous acid concentration (the breakpoint chlorination spreadsheet assumes 3 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA results in about 0.05 ppm hypochlorous acid at pH 7.5 -- the actual amount is closer to 0.042 ppm). Nitrogen trichloride is the most volatile and irritating. The monochloramine odor threshold is 0.65 ppm; for dichloramine it is 100 ppb; for nitrogen trichloride it is 20 ppb. The equilibrium concentrations in air for monochloramine and dichloramine are somewhat lower than that in water, but nitrogen trichloride is extremely volatile so will not saturate the air before becoming extremely noticeable and irritating.

The above is just for breakpoint chlorination of ammonia. As seen in Table 4.1 on document page 62 (PDF page 85) of this link, urea has 68% of the nitrogen in sweat compared to 18% for ammonia while in urine it's 84% vs. 5%. There is no definitive model for oxidation of urea by chlorine, though some mechanisms have been proposed (by Wojtowicz) including the slow formation of a quad-chloro urea followed by rapid breakdown to dichloramine and nitrogen trichloride. If I repeat the above analysis using an 80%/20% split of urea to ammonia and assume a steady state buildup, then I get the following results.

OXIDATION OF UREA & AMMONIA
SPECIES ........................... NO CYA ............ 30 ppm CYA
Monochloramine ............. 0.01 ppm ........... 0.28 ppm
Dichloramine .................. 1.19 ppb ............ 34.17 ppb
Nitrogen Trichloride ........ 70.84 ppb .......... 2.35 ppb

You can see that the resulting nitrogen trichloride is the same as before, but that there is lower monochloramine and dichloramine by a factor of 2.5.

The rate of ammonia/urea introduction of 0.1 ppm N per hour is for heavy bather loads since it represents a chlorine usage of nearly 1 ppm FC per hour. One swimmer may produce around 0.1 ppm N per hour in 1000 gallons so only a pool with many people being active would have this sort of usage. Of course, having children in the water that urinate would provide a very high load. If a child urinates 100 ml (3.4 fluid ounces), then in 1000 gallons this is about 0.3 ppm N.

Note that the urea model assumes no interactions between the chloramines and chloroureas or related species and that's probably not realistic, but there are no studies or models I can find analyzing such interactions.

Since the UV in sunlight breaks down nitrogen trichloride fairly quickly and since air circulation is also good outdoors, the current recommendations for FC as a % of CYA are reasonable for outdoor pools. The slower breakpoint is not generally a problem unless the bather load is high. For commercial/public pools with higher bather loads, an FC that is 20% of the CYA level may be more appropriate. For indoor pools, the slower breakpoint might be more of an issue so perhaps an FC that is 20% of the CYA level may be better even when there is not high bather load in such pools. From the models, not using any CYA at all in any pool (indoor or outdoor) can result in far higher irritating nitrogen trichloride concentrations and also has the chlorine level be too strong for corrosion and oxidizing swimsuits, skin and hair. Since it is not practical to maintain 0.2 ppm FC everywhere in an indoor pool due to local usage and imperfect circulation, using CYA as a hypochlorous acid buffer makes sense, but should not be overdone.

Richard

I am sure there is a simple answer to this, but I can't think of it.

For the test, we use:

10 drops of R-0010
3 drops of R-0011L
TBD of R-0012

Yet, the amount shipped in the kit is 1/2 oz of 0010 and 1 oz of 0011. Why is this?

Hi everyone! Recently joined this forum to explore options when renovating our pool. I fully intended to post progress photos as we went, but it's been a very hectic couple of months and while I did an okay job getting some photos, I never found the time to upload them. Apologies if a photo-dump at the tail end is less exciting, but I thought I would share in case our process or results were informational or interesting to anyone here (or anyone looking in the future). We purchased a new home in the SE Texas area in March of 2021, and it came complete with our first swimming pool--a roughly 15'x40' saltwater pool, 10-years old, with quartz plaster and an adjoining spa. The pool featured one large tanning shelf and a somewhat small shelf on the opposite side, adjacent to the spa. Not sure of the exact depth otherwise, but it is probably about 4-feet on either end, and approximately 5 or 5.5 in the middle. This is a photo of the pool when we initially viewed the home and put in our offer (also notice the mostly-healthy trees... more on that later):




We absolutely loved the pool which, although a decade old, still looked modern and fit perfectly in the surrounding space. We would have had no inclination to change anything about it, but unfortunately, sometime between making an offer and closing the sale, a rust spot developed on the bottom of the pool. As a pool noob, I had no idea what it was, and the prior owner claimed it was a stain from a leaf that had blown into the pool during a long freeze that shut down power and water for a couple of weeks. After having it looked at by a couple of pool builders, we determined it was actually a crack in the plaster where rebar was bleeding through. Between March and mid-summer, it gradually stained the bottom of the pool, which we tried to address with metal treatments, but that resulted in nothing more than a couple bouts of stubborn algae and metal stains that faded but just came back in days. Here are some pictures of the rust spot, as well as the spreading stains:





Our pool servicer tried to patch the crack on two occasions, digging out the plaster and chipping down, then filling it with some kind of waterproof material, but it did not last either time. Within a few weeks, the rust always started bleeding through again (and we still couldn't get rid of the existing/continuing stains). Picture of the patch job with returning rust:


By the end of last year (November-ish), we were pretty sure we just wanted to wait until winter and possibly resurface the pool, especially since both builders who looked at the issue spotted other cracks in the plaster in other locations. They said it was primarily aesthetic, and that we could probably go a few more years without addressing anything, but at that point I was pretty obsessed with making my "brand new" pool look perfect. We might still have waited a year or two, honestly, but we were also frustrated by a problem with the water feature. As you can see in the photos above, one side of the pool has a stacked stone wall that was apparently intended to operate as a "weeping" wall, with water trickling down across its length. Unfortunately, the original builder did not do a good job with the effect, resulting in a torrent of water at one end, and a bare trickle at the other. Again, something we were resigned to deal with for awhile, but in December we noticed the waterwall was also leaking in multiple spots across the back whenever it was turned on. Which explained a bunch of issues we'd had with dying trees in the adjoining garden (due to a somewhat steady diet of chlorinated saltwater). So, we decided in mid-December that we had to repair the waterwall, anyway, so we might as well just tackle everything at once. Here are some pictures of the malfunctioning wall, and the leaks:






In January 2022, we interviewed a couple of pool builders and got quotes for the work. Before going any further, I should probably brace you for this: I think we may be the only people in the history of pool-owning to spend the amount of money we ultimately decided to spend for the sole purpose of renovating a pool to look pretty much like it did before spending the money. Heckle me if you must, but I swear fixing all of the little things added up in our heads and made sense (and we don't regret it, so far). In addition to the problems noted above, we also had no pool lights. The spa light was broken when we purchased (which we knew), and then the pool light crapped out around seven months later. Between the cracks, the stains, the weird and leaky water feature, and the lights, there was a lot to do that is not evident on the surface. We also decided to automate everything--in for a penny, in for a pound, as they say. Upgrading to a pebble finish also seemed like a no-brainer, since the quotes for pebble and quartz weren't that far off, although it did ultimately balloon the price more than expected when we chose a builder who would not re-plaster unless they also re-tiled. We actually really liked the original tile and would have left it alone--just sandblasted away the stains and scaling--but they claimed the join between tile and plaster is a big deal and they could not warrant a job where they don't also do the tile. Seemed like a bit of a stretch, but we really liked their work, so the deal was done. We looked at a variety of tile and almost really went nuts with this one:




...but we weren't really sure our subdued and somewhat natural pool design would look right with such a wild pattern. Plus, the pool builder kept saying it was "beautifully unique," which I sort of interpreted as "something you will regret later." It also turned out to be more expensive than our tile allowance would allow, so that made the decision with us--we would stick to our guns and go with a tile close to our original look. We looked at the below samples and ultimately chose the tile in the upper left, below:



...and with that I've discovered only 10 files can be attached to posts in this forum. Fair enough. Instead of a single, long post-mortem of a pool remodel, you will get two posts to (hopefully) enjoy. Stay tuned...

My phone just alerted me that poolmath can be shared with family members. So happy about this because I really didn’t see why I’d have to pay twice to track the same pool! Thanks!

We love this thing!!!

We live in Houston and this patio cover transformed our patio into a paradise! We have had it for a little over a year now and could not be happier.

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ITS TIME! I am so ready to not ever use another Baq product! I have my TFpro test kit and have been using it and the Pool Math calculator. I’ve been reading over all of the great info on the TFP site, the conversion stories and feel like the time is now to green up my water TFP style!
I have kept our pool open this Winter and have not added any Baq products. I have been lowering water before rain showers to help dilute left over Baq while maintaining PH. I have also added some city water a few times.
I have 28 gal of 10% chlorine “Pool Essentials” and feel like I’m ready to do it while time allows and the weather could be much better for the conversion. It’s going to be cloudy for a few days , the temps in the 60’s and PH is 7.3 recently!
Positive encouragement would be much appreciated!

Hello everyone, this is my first post and of course it's because I have a problem. We have been pool owners for years and never really had any trouble keeping the water looking good but this year has been a different story. Up until about two weeks ago, everything was going great. But suddenly after doing my normal maintenance the water started to look a little cloudy. I attributed to the high amount of rain and did my usual by adding an extra chlorine tablet to the skimmer and adding in some water clarifier. Normally, the next day the water is looking good again but this time is wasn't the case. I really don't go to the pool stores too often but after 5 days of cloudy water, decided it might be worth a visit. The pool store told me that my metals (copper) were high and sold me something to prevent staining and also a Culator 4.0 metal remover. I put the Culator in the pump basket and added the stuff to prevent stains. They also said my phosphates were super high and sold me some phosphate remover which I have never used before. I followed their directions and a week later the water is no better and I'm out over $300. I decided to search the internet and found this site which seems to be a better solution than daily visits to the pool store. I'm going to order a testing kit today but in the meantime, everyone in the house wants to kill me right now. I did take a water sample to the pool store yesterday and found that the metals have dropped from 1.7 to 1.2 so the Culator seems to be working but there are some concerns after reading many posts last night. My pH is 7.5 and the total alkalinity is 109. calcium hardness is 237. My concerns begin here with FC at 4.6 and TC at 5.6 while CYA is 150. TDS is 1500, and Phosphate is 4000 which they said is the highest that the machine will read. Not sure what optimizer is but I'm at 2 and they recommend 30-35. If I understood the information that I read last night, my biggest concern is the CYA being at a high level. With a CYA level of 150, my best option is to do a partial drain and refill or to have someone come perform reverse osmosis on the pool. I did add 6 oz. of water clarifier again last night but at this my point, my thinking is that money is just being wasted by adding anything else. My pool is a pebble tec inground pool with about 22,000 gallons. This year we put in a new filter and heater. The filter is variable speeds and it's a sand filter but also contains glass or something like that as I'm not exactly sure. The filter has a chlorinator attached that holds 3 inch pucks. Since we are in the middle of the pool season, and the whole house relies on me for the pool, the pressure is on and I am failing miserably. Any recommendations??

Greetings!

Our pool finally got completed toward the end of last summer. We live on Long Island and have scheduled to conduct our very first pool open for next week - March 29th! We have a loop-loc mesh cover. My question is around chemicals. I've learned already to disregard the sample results from the pool company/pool store, and run my own tests, but I'd like to acquire chemicals ahead of time so that I can minimize costs.

Here are my questions:
1. How long do you have to run the pump/filter for before getting valid chemistry results. For fun, I pulled a sample out of the skimmer basked opening to get a salt reading, and it was of no surprise that it was 500ppm or less (duh, that water is practically the result of rain/snow water fill...I'm sure there's a higher concentration toward the bottom of the pool!).

2. I'm ordering six 40-lb bags of pool salt [it's on sale for $6/bag] to have on hand. (Is this a decent price?)? Is this enough or should I have more on hand?
3. What type and how much shock should I have? (liquid or powder? I assume brand matters less, chemical composition matters more...what's the recommendation)?

That's all for now....looking forward to the recommdations!