Zombie Pool Pad Equip Replacement

[CJ Guy]

I'm very thankful to have found this forum.

My pool:
-26,000 gallon 10’ diving pool
- In ground (pop up) cleaning system
- Water feature
- Large connected jacuuzi
- Heater

Current equipment
- 2hp dying pump connected to every pool system
- Hayward DE6020 filter
-Hayward Northstar 2 hp pump connected to jacuzzi jets
Return Manifold
-2” pipe for main pool return to pop ups
- 1” pipe to aerator and 1” to mystery line
-1.5” pipe to water feature
- 1.5” pipe to pool wall ports
Suction to Pump
-2” drain
-2” filter basket
-2” jacuzzi
Jacuzzi 2.5” pioe from Northstar pump to jets
Heater looks like 2.5” as well
See photos

My pool was green when we moved in. Pool guy said he knew the house and the previous owner never wanted to put in a new pump or filter and the current pump couldn't handle the entire system. The filter pressure has been over 32 at times.

I replaced the DE grids and flushed the return lines. I adjusted the valves to out more suction focussed on the pool. I've been able to get the pool water in great shape through weeks of winter cleanings and $100’s of dollars in chemicals. The pump has a terrible drag on start up and is about to die. I literally spent 1-2 hours daily brushing, vacuuming and cleaning the pool. It's time to have the pool system take some work off my hands.

I bought a 2.7 hp VS pump and 525sq ft filter I plan to instal when I have the plumbing figured out.
-Would it be a benefit to the system for me to run 2.5” pipe into the pump, pump to filter, and filter to return manifold?
- is it worth it to increase all exposed plumbing to a half size bigger?
- Would it be beneficial to insert a flow meter or vacuum and pressure gages…or both? Is the juice worth the squeeze for the cost?
Between the conflicting information I've received from 2 pool professionals I've decided to research for myself. The first look guy told me new filter, 2.5 hp pump and bypass the heater. The second guy said 3hp pump and never bypass the heater.

I'm estimating the TDH to be around 55, not 100% sure. The flow rate for the pump filter combo is appropriate. I want to have the juice to run anything and everything I have on the system at will. I also want to reduce the time and effort to maintain the pool. Eventually I will install a salt system. Not because they are amazing in Arizona, but because the wife insists and I don't mind putting the effort in to maintain a salt system. I just can't keep up the daily work and chemical costs. We do have a tree, not ours, the craps in our pool daily.

That was a mind vomit of information, so if you hung in until the end I appreciate you. I just need to figure out the proper size of pipe to offer the best gain and reliability without instigating bother issues and need to know if adding flow meters or gages would help me in the future.

Ps. My new pump will be at least a foot away from the suction line elbow. The filter input and return will have appropriate swept elbows and straight line length prior to bends. Thanks in advance.

CJ

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

Does your pool pass a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test? If not you need to follow the SLAM Process

Much of what you describe sounds like algae problem clogging your filter and making your pump work harder.

Pipe sizes and flow meters are not going to fix your problems. Install the SWG now, not eventually. It will help you more then the other stuff you proposed.

What model heater?

What model VS pump and filter did you buy?

You have an IFCS and will need to run higher flow rates for the IFCS to work.

Start with the basics. Get an algae free pool and then evaluate how your equipment performs.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Algae Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Jimrahbe]

CJ,

Other than installing your new pump and filter, nothing on your list will make any real difference in how your plumbing will work..

If it will make your re-plumbing easier, then just make everything 2".. It will make very little difference one way or the other..

You say you are worried about the time it takes to manage a pool, but then say you will convert to saltwater later.. Sorry, but you have that backwards.. Saltwater pools are as close hands off pool maintenance as you are going to get!!! Since you plan to install a SWCG, just do it while you are redoing your plumbing.

Replumb it the way you want, just don't get your hopes up that you will see some magical results, as you will not be able to tell any difference...

It appears that you can shut off your in floor cleaning system??? Do you have return eyeballs on the side wall of your pool?? Do you like the way your IFCS works?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[jonpcar]

Hey @CJ Guy, welcome! My system is a stripped down version of yours. Here is my input:

Chances are your 1” pipe to mystery line is a “return” to a venturi skimmer, search for it in these forums then test it to see if that is the case.

As talked about by the previous posters, get your pool basics working before tackling additional tasks: in particular get your chemicals stable/balanced…only chlorine and acid should be needed once you get the CYA/calcium in good ranges. I am making some assumptions but run you pool like this:

• Turn off you IFCS at the A valve at the IFCS distributor
• turn ON your wall returns with B Valve (maybe the other one?)
• balance your return flow with C Valve to mostly wall returns with a small trickle going to your spa to replenish its chlorine (is than via spa overflow? I don’t have a spa…). Take the time to direct your wall returns to circulate the water surface to optimize skimming…will help with neighbor’s tree.
• suction all from pool skimmer & main drain via Valve D, ignore the spa for now

I agree with you that your system has issues if you ever plan on using the IFCS effectively.

• Go with the 3hp VSP, cheaper to run and if you decide to use your IFCS, necessary
• If you are doing a pad replumb, definitely install the SWG, I made the switch last year and I wouldn’t do without it, especially considering the issues you are having to keep the pool clean.
• Definitely install the heater bypass right at the output of the filter DIRECTLY TO the return header if you want your IFCS to ever work properly. Make sure to use a Jandy 3-way that could possibly be automated in the future.
• Is your new filter a cartridge filter…if so, eliminate that plunge valve (for backwash) on the output of the filter. Decide if you want to keep the option of a drain valve on the filter output (just use a Jandy 3 way). Also, I assume the other valve on the filter output is the water feature/aerator, I would put a Jandy valve there as well to possible automate in the future.

As far as IFCS, I would cross that bridge later if you implement the changes above (bigger pump, PSI loss for IFCS through heater/manifold). Your pool is on the ultra-high-end gallon-wise (26K) for an IFCS system with the mitigator that it has a deep end for debris to settle near the main drain. However, the biggest impediment to IFCS for you will be the lack of automation. You really want your valves to switch around (daily and automatically) to implement spa overflow/IFCS cleanings, pool skimming/chlorinating using a SWG. You can try some valve settings that might fake it but it will probably work out very poorly.

 

[CJ Guy]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still digesting all the information. I’ll take my water to be tested today.

I think I'm past the chlorine hump today

Welcome to TFP.

Does your pool pass a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test? If not you need to follow the SLAM Process

Much of what you describe sounds like algae problem clogging your filter and making your pump work harder.

Pipe sizes and flow meters are not going to fix your problems. Install the SWG now, not eventually. It will help you more then the other stuff you proposed.

What model heater?

What model VS pump and filter did you buy?

You have an IFCS and will need to run higher flow rates for the IFCS to work.

Start with the basics. Get an algae free pool and then evaluate how your equipment performs.

Pool Care Basics Archives

Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

Algae Archives

www.troublefreepool.com

I think I'm past the chlorine dump issue. Today’s chlorine looks great and I only added a gallon last night when the reading was .5. I will check into the slam process for knowledge sake.

I have the algae under control. I've changed the grid once and cleaned it twice over the last two weeks. My last back flush was about 5 days ago and pressure is holding steady.

My heater is an older model, Hayward H250. I haven't run it yet, but I've repaired heaters at my last two homes and if it doesn't work, I’ll fix it.

The pump is a Waterway Power Defender 2.7. Filter is a Waterway 525. I can do the SWG now. It seems to be the recommended way to go.

With the algae under control I still can't open the valves to both the pool and jacuzzi and have any valuable suction at the skimmer. It won't hold the basket down. I have to close the main drain and jacuzzi suction in order to vacuum with the skimmer port.

 

[Jimrahbe]

CJ,

Most Pools with Spas are designed to be in the Pool mode or the Spa mode.. Not both at the same time.

Jim R.

 

[CJ Guy]

Forgot to include in the last post. Still reading through everyone's advice.

Chemical test this morning. Why do I have two maim drains at the bottom of the pool? Is one shared with the skimmer and the other its own plumbing? I also have what I think is a chlorination port. The pic is below. This won't matter with a SWG.

 

[ajw22]

I’ll take my water to be tested today.

Negative. Get your own test kit. Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits

Test Kits Compared

I think I'm past the chlorine dump issue. Today’s chlorine looks great and I only added a gallon last night when the reading was .5. I will check into the slam process for knowledge sake.

I have the algae under control. I've changed the grid once and cleaned it twice over the last two weeks. My last back flush was about 5 days ago and pressure is holding steady.

I'm sorry, but you cannot judge whether you have the algae under control by how the water looks. Algae is microscopic and can be present in clear water.

Either the water is algae free or it is not. Only a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test will tell you and you cannot do that with Pool Store testing.

 

[CJ Guy]

CJ,

Most Pools with Spas are designed to be in the Pool mode or the Spa mode.. Not both at the same time.

Jim R.

Thanks, Jim. How does that apply when running the pump? Select pool or jacuzzi and run the system? Can the not run together for cleaning purposes? I'm just trying to learn a little more. I appreciate the input.

 

[CJ Guy]

CJ,

Other than installing your new pump and filter, nothing on your list will make any real difference in how your plumbing will work..

If it will make your re-plumbing easier, then just make everything 2".. It will make very little difference one way or the other..

You say you are worried about the time it takes to manage a pool, but then say you will convert to saltwater later.. Sorry, but you have that backwards.. Saltwater pools are as close hands off pool maintenance as you are going to get!!! Since you plan to install a SWCG, just do it while you are redoing your plumbing.

Replumb it the way you want, just don't get your hopes up that you will see some magical results, as you will not be able to tell any difference...

It appears that you can shut off your in floor cleaning system??? Do you have return eyeballs on the side wall of your pool?? Do you like the way your IFCS works?

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,
No return eyeballs. I prefer a vacuum, which I have one with an inline filter, I just don't want to give up the skimmer basket. I think if I can get the IFCS to function properly I’ll be content with vacuuming when needed.

I get the concept of the IFCS and with the amount if debris that end up in my pool I was hoping a VS pump with the appropriate flow would liven up the skimmer basket and help collect more top matter.

Regarding the SWCG, everyone I've talked to here in Phoenix say they are a waste. Pool guys, pool store manager, my mom and her pool. The question is why do they all recommend against it. From what I can figure out, the salt cells need replacement here every two-ish years. To extend that time I would need to out some effort into cleaning some part of the SWCG with muratic acid to extend longevity. I don't know this to be true, I have no experience. It's all from what I hear and read. If there's less maintenance, it's a giant no-brainer.

 

[CJ Guy]

Negative. Get your own test kit. Taylor K-2006C or TFT Test Kits

Test Kits Compared


I'm sorry, but you cannot judge whether you have the algae under control by how the water looks. Algae is microscopic and can be present in clear water.

Either the water is algae free or it is not. Only a Overnight Chlorine Loss Test will tell you and you cannot do that with Pool Store testing.

I’ll order the TF Pro salt, thanks for the link. I'm going to follow everyone's advice to instal the salt kit now.

I’ll will go through the advised OCLT process. It looks like if it's not complete, I continue the SLAM process until the OCLT indicates it's complete. Thanks for squaring me away. I'm severely disappointed in the advice from the local pool shops. I can only assume most people don't care and want the cheap way out and the advice given is based on those facts.

 

[Jimrahbe]

CJ,

Show us a few pics of your skimmer...

We need to see what is under the skimmer basket..

We need to see if you have a weir door between the mouth of the skimmer and where the skimmer basket is located.

Also... since you have a IFCS, where does all the dirt go?? It has to get trapped in something or do into the filter. I'm used to see what looks like an extra pump lid, often in the deck of the pool where there debris get trapped..

Thanks.

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

I'm severely disappointed in the advice from the local pool shops. I can only assume most people don't care and want the cheap way out and the advice given is based on those facts.

CJ,

Most people what instant results, and don't want to put in the effort to perform a SLAM..

That is why Pool Stores sell 'magic' potions.. And, where they make all their money..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Regarding the SWCG, everyone I've talked to here in Phoenix say they are a waste.

CJ,

You need to talk with better informed people...

Most cell last 5 to 7 years.. In a way, cells are like a tank full of chlorine.. Eventually they run out of gas.. When you buy a cell, it is the same as buying 5 to 7 years of 'chlorine' up front.

Until recently, I owned 3 saltwater pools.. The main reason that it was easy for me to maintain 3 pools, is that they are saltwater pools.. The easiest type of pool to maintain. That said, you do have to understand how how they work.. It takes about half an hours worth a effort, once a week, to maintain a saltwater pool.

I look at my cell once a year, when I clean my filter.. Sometimes I have to use a little muriatic acid to clean it, sometimes I don't.. If I can do it, anyone can do it. Very simple..

Most people I know with saltwater pools, would rather fill them in with dirt, if they could not be saltwater pools...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I don't know who you are talking to, but if your water is properly balanced and if Calcium hardness is kept under 300 then your salt cell will last 4-5 years as it should. Stop talking to others and just stick with the knowledge here. Most people don't know about the methods we share here and so they are oblivious to a better way to pool and better way to get life from their cells.

 

[CJ Guy]

I don't know who you are talking to, but if your water is properly balanced and if Calcium hardness is kept under 300 then your salt cell will last 4-5 years as it should. Stop talking to others and just stick with the knowledge here. Most people don't know about the methods we share here and so they are oblivious to a better way to pool and better way to get life from their cells.

I appreciate that. I just found this gold mine forum yesterday and am following the advice I'm given. I've only been as informed as the people I've encountered on this journey.

I've been looking at salt systems and will wait to install my pump and filter until I decide which one to buy. I've been on discountsaltpools.com shoping around. Any recommendations would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

 

[CJ Guy]

CJ,

Show us a few pics of your skimmer...

We need to see what is under the skimmer basket..

We need to see if you have a weir door between the mouth of the skimmer and where the skimmer basket is located.

Also... since you have a IFCS, where does all the dirt go?? It has to get trapped in something or do into the filter. I'm used to see what looks like an extra pump lid, often in the deck of the pool where there debris get trapped..

Thanks.

Jim R.

I’ll send a pic in the am of under the filter basket. There's two ports, one suction and the other is blocked off.

There is a round lid in the pool deck that I have no idea what its for. I’ll attach a picture to this post. I thought it may have to do with chlorine bit haven't researched it yet. It was full of sand at the bottom. Maybe this is what you were referring to for a debris trap.

I found the weir door behind the heater tonight laying in the ground. I assume the old owner pulled it off when the gearing in the distributer for the IFCS broke and be switched to a vacuum. He took the crawler with him when he moved.

 

[Jimrahbe]

CJ,

Skimmers do not "skim" when you don't have a weir door..

When the weir door is operating correctly, the surface water plus any floating debris will get pulled into the skimmer's mouth.

When the weir door is missing, the surface water is calm and the water entering the skimmer comes from the bottom of the skimmer's mouth. The skimmer still sucks water in, but it is not the water that has the most debris.. Not really what you want to happen..

You should reinstall the weir door.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

I've been on discountsaltpools.com shoping around. Any recommendations would be helpful.

Big pools make it much easier because only Circupool (core55 and RJ60+) and Pentair (IC plus 60) make them big enough for you.

If you have or will want automation, you'll need to stick to that brand with a smaller cell. (The others all top out at 40k) It'll need to run proportionately longer for the same FC, and you'll use its lifespan hours proportionately sooner.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I would get a Circupool RJ60+. It's usually available on discountsaltpools as a $10 bump up from the RJ45.