Which route to go....Gas Heater, Heat Pump, Spa Heater??

[bobafet1]

Hey All,

I live in SoCal and have solar on my home. I'm going to be upgrading my equipment soon and was considering a few options to save money on utilities. At my previous home we had a Pentair mastertemp 400 which worked awesome! I was considering replacing the existing old/crusty heater with one of these but figured since I have solar, and I rather extend the swim season, I was considering going with a heat pump. But, the wife/kids do like going into the spa so I don't think having just a heat pump would make sense with heating up the spa whereas a gas heater will do it much quicker. I know Pentair now makes a hybrid heat pump/gas setup but the cost of that is almost double what a regular gas heater runs. I see there are some electric spa heater units that I thought I could plumb as a dedicated heater for the spa. Just not sure which route is best. Any recommendations are appreciated.

 

[ajw22]

You have solar PV or solar pool heat?

Nothing beats a 400K NG heater for heating the spa if you have the gas service.

 

[Newdude]

I know Pentair now makes a hybrid heat pump/gas setup but the cost of that is almost double what a regular gas heater runs

Yeah but you get 2 heaters for the price, and the best of both worlds. Raw performance when it's cool/cold from the gas side and energy efficiency from the electric side when it's warm out.

While I love them on paper, I do not like them in the real world. Remember TV/VCRs ? One part broke and you threw out the half that still worked. Except instead of being $200, it's $6000(?).

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you live in CA … STAY AWAY FROM GAS!

CA is enacting regulatory hurdles that make gas super expensive. There was an article I read recently where one California homeowner’s gas bill went from just over $100 to $800+ the next year (same month so an 8X year over year increase). It’s basically forced-scarcity to make homeowners switch to all electric use (which is funny given the fact that CA utilities can’t keep the lights on in some places).

So if your considering heating for the pool go with a solar thermal installation or size your heat pump so it can be run off of the PV system you have. Gas has become a non-starter where you are.

 

[bobafet1]

You have solar PV or solar pool heat?

Nothing beats a 400K NG heater for heating the spa if you have the gas service.

I have solar panels...so I rather go electric on appliances now.

 

[bobafet1]

If you live in CA … STAY AWAY FROM GAS!

CA is enacting regulatory hurdles that make gas super expensive. There was an article I read recently where one California homeowner’s gas bill went from just over $100 to $800+ the next year (same month so an 8X year over year increase). It’s basically forced-scarcity to make homeowners switch to all electric use (which is funny given the fact that CA utilities can’t keep the lights on in some places).

So if your considering heating for the pool go with a solar thermal installation or size your heat pump so it can be run off of the PV system you have. Gas has become a non-starter where you are.

yeah, i hate our governor but idiots keep voting him in office. Everyone is complaining about their gas bills now. I agree, its an artificial scarcity to pinch us even further. The heat pump sounds great since I'll have my pool warmer longer but still not sure on what to do with the spa. I'd seen some units like this one but not sure how they'll perform

EcoSmart Smart SPA 11 Tankless Electric Spa Heater 11 kW 220 V Smart SPA 11 - The Home Depot

EcoSmart Electric Tankless Spa and Pool Heaters are designed to provide reliable, efficient, convenient, on demand heating. EcoSmart Spa Heaters operate by utilizing the latest flow sensor technology instead of the traditional pressure switch activation to reduce the risk of burned elements...

www.homedepot.com

 

[1poolman1]

yeah, i hate our governor but idiots keep voting him in office. Everyone is complaining about their gas bills now. I agree, its an artificial scarcity to pinch us even further. The heat pump sounds great since I'll have my pool warmer longer but still not sure on what to do with the spa. I'd seen some units like this one but not sure how they'll perform

EcoSmart Smart SPA 11 Tankless Electric Spa Heater 11 kW 220 V Smart SPA 11 - The Home Depot

EcoSmart Electric Tankless Spa and Pool Heaters are designed to provide reliable, efficient, convenient, on demand heating. EcoSmart Spa Heaters operate by utilizing the latest flow sensor technology instead of the traditional pressure switch activation to reduce the risk of burned elements...

www.homedepot.com

That heater is for a spa or very small pool that is kept warm all the time, not a pool/spa combo. It produces approximately 38K BTU. If your spa is about 500 gallons it would heat it about 9 degrees per hour.

 

[makingbirdie]

Good thing you live in SoCal so you stand a chance. Trying to go all electric and solar will make owning an in-ground spa a very difficult concept. While heat pumps are very efficient, the energy content in natural gas/propane is just substantially higher. The 400K Natural Gas heater will heat your spa in 15-20 minutes and the heat pump will take 4 hours. So without Natural Gas, you will probably need a solar array as large as the one for your house dedicated to just the spa with backup battery running 24/7 if you are going to use it conveniently. Or I guess you could put 8-10 (38K BTU Heaters) of them in parallel . I know this is not funny because I am only looking at this article because I am trying to solve the problem of how i am going to heat a 2800 gallon in ground spa/spool in Dallas. They do make 100K+ heat pumps. I will be likely installing both the heat pump to keep the spa tempered 24/7 while covered and the 400K gas heater for faster warmup when I want it 100 degF. I am only seeing 1000-1500 dollar different to get a heat pump that can heat and cool + a natural gas heater. The Pentair version is heating only but it does allow higher flow because you still have to exchange all the water combined with maximizing the single pass heating output.

For yours, my opinion is a large heat pump that can cool or heat 100K to 125K BTU (electric service upgrade possibly required), a cover for your spa and more solar panels to offset the cost. Gas heater is bonus for convenience but you are right that this is going to get expensive both to install and operate. I looked at the Pentair dual fuel you are talking about but seems expensive for heating only and I am not an early adopter on new concepts. Somebody else can work out the bugs!

 

[bobafet1]

Good thing you live in SoCal so you stand a chance. Trying to go all electric and solar will make owning an in-ground spa a very difficult concept. While heat pumps are very efficient, the energy content in natural gas/propane is just substantially higher. The 400K Natural Gas heater will heat your spa in 15-20 minutes and the heat pump will take 4 hours. So without Natural Gas, you will probably need a solar array as large as the one for your house dedicated to just the spa with backup battery running 24/7 if you are going to use it conveniently. Or I guess you could put 8-10 (38K BTU Heaters) of them in parallel . I know this is not funny because I am only looking at this article because I am trying to solve the problem of how i am going to heat a 2800 gallon in ground spa/spool in Dallas. They do make 100K+ heat pumps. I will be likely installing both the heat pump to keep the spa tempered 24/7 while covered and the 400K gas heater for faster warmup when I want it 100 degF. I am only seeing 1000-1500 dollar different to get a heat pump that can heat and cool + a natural gas heater. The Pentair version is heating only but it does allow higher flow because you still have to exchange all the water combined with maximizing the single pass heating output.

For yours, my opinion is a large heat pump that can cool or heat 100K to 125K BTU (electric service upgrade possibly required), a cover for your spa and more solar panels to offset the cost. Gas heater is bonus for convenience but you are right that this is going to get expensive both to install and operate. I looked at the Pentair dual fuel you are talking about but seems expensive for heating only and I am not an early adopter on new concepts. Somebody else can work out the bugs!

Yeah, I'm not a fan of being the 1st gen guinea pig but not sure what else to do at this point. The ultra temp heater does come in a nice package compared to the extra space/plumbing needed for two separate units. I'm going to hunt for feedback on how its been holding up thus far.