What is this return/control/nozzle? and filter pressure question

[fire29]

Picture 1: The knob there is a removable screw. It seems to be some sort of air bleeder, but when fully inserted, shuts off a nozzle that is over the entry steps (yes the water is Crud, long story, maybe another thread later today, its being SLAMMed). When its open, it tends to put out a ton of airbubbles and lowers pressure on a normal nozzle near by (no air there anytime).

Picture 2: This is my sand filter. Theres another label saying max working pressure of 50PSI. Everything Im reading says normal operating pressure for sand filters (not this one specifically) is 10-15 or 30ish PSI.
My pump is outputting 40PSI (gage right after it before the filter). The filter gage when "clean" is about 30. When bypassed/wasted its about 25. When dirty (with major nozzle reduction of flow) its about 40.

Are these PSIs too high? Or is this normal for the filter?

I will say I need to probably pull the thing apart and garden hose it inside (seen on another thread vs backwashing). Might see if I can accomplish that this weekend. I dont know the age of sand or anything. It looks like it may have been made in '06. It seems to filter OK and needing backwash a lot (2-3x day, but Im heavy cleaning so I expect that).

 

[ajw22]

The knob is an air control for a bubler jet installed by your steps.

40 PSI is way too high. Even 30 PSI for a clean filter is too high. Filter pressure should be in the teens.

You may need to deep clean your sand.

Sand Filter Use and Care - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[fire29]

40 PSI is way too high. Even 30 PSI for a clean filter is too high. Filter pressure should be in the teens.

Thats what im reading, but how does this compare to an input pressure of 40 from the pump? As when the filter is bypassed (waste, recirc) its still reading 25.

 

[ajw22]

Post pics of your equipment pad.

You have such a nasty looking pool who knows what is clogged in your plumbing?

 

[1poolman1]

Picture 1: The knob there is a removable screw. It seems to be some sort of air bleeder, but when fully inserted, shuts off a nozzle that is over the entry steps (yes the water is Crud, long story, maybe another thread later today, its being SLAMMed). When its open, it tends to put out a ton of airbubbles and lowers pressure on a normal nozzle near by (no air there anytime).

Picture 2: This is my sand filter. Theres another label saying max working pressure of 50PSI. Everything Im reading says normal operating pressure for sand filters (not this one specifically) is 10-15 or 30ish PSI.
My pump is outputting 40PSI (gage right after it before the filter). The filter gage when "clean" is about 30. When bypassed/wasted its about 25. When dirty (with major nozzle reduction of flow) its about 40.

Are these PSIs too high? Or is this normal for the filter?

I will say I need to probably pull the thing apart and garden hose it inside (seen on another thread vs backwashing). Might see if I can accomplish that this weekend. I dont know the age of sand or anything. It looks like it may have been made in '06. It seems to filter OK and needing backwash a lot (2-3x day, but Im heavy cleaning so I expect that).

View attachment 491072View attachment 491073

What size pump are you running? What size plumbing? How many return lines? Twenty-five psi when the filter is in bypass/waste position is very high unless you have a very long hose or a restriction in that line. Thirty on clean filter start is also very high.

 

[fire29]

1.5in pipes.
2 skimmers 1 main drain
2 returns (I think, there may be a third, thatll be another post soon) plus the bubbler jet that is connected to 1 return I think.
Pump-see picture
Ignore the little black pump, its off and shutoff.

I dont believe the current "mess" is anything to do with the pressure. I started somewhat top clear and screwed up my scrubbing (theres an inch of muck on the bottom) which is why it looks so bad right now. I also disassembled all the piping on both sides of the filter recently and there are no clogs there. Theres excellent return pressure and excellent suction on the skimmers, so I doubt theres any clogs further up either.

 

[ajw22]

@mas985 what do you think about these pressures?

 

[mas985]

Does the filter pressure go to zero when the pump shuts off? If not, replace the filter gauge.

A top mount multi-port valve pressure gauge should read 0 when in bypass mode since the gauge is plumbed next to the filter media. So either the gauge has an issue or the multi-port does.

When you changed the valve to bypass, do you turn off the pump first?

 

[fire29]

Yes, already replaced it as it wasnt reading anything previously but zero.

To be clear, bypass == recirc or waste correct? Im not with plumbing completely bypassing the filter.

Yes

 

[mas985]

Yes, even recirculate should read 0 PSI. There may be an issue with the spider gasket on the multi-port.

Also, the 2 HP Super II has a max head of less than 90' which means a maximum pressure of 39 PSI so if you are getting 40 PSI, the pump is basically dead headed so I would clean the filter well before you reach 40 PSI. However, 30 PSI is not normal for a clean filter even with that pump. On 1.5" plumbing and a 24" filter, I would not expect much more than about 22 PSI.

What is the history of this setup? Has it always operated at such a high PSI?

 

[fire29]

Ive no idea on history. I bought the house last year (didnt open then) and it came with it. Ive no history other than i suspect its not been run for several years maybe more. Since Ive turned it on, it always runs at what Ive stated unless theres air in the top (when I open/clean it), then itll drop to about 20 and flail all around until it fully purges the air.

 

[fire29]

So I took the top off and ran some more tests. I was a little off in my numbers from earlier.
Recirc: pump is 38, filter is in 20s (its all over the place)
Waste: pump is 28

(see inline note about filter gage)







The filter gage is above the rotator (below picture), so its going to read pressure in to the filter, not after. So its going to read pressure all the time, regardless of setting. Not sure what other filters gages placement is, but this one will never read zero for its placement unless the system is off (which it does then.)

 

[mas985]

So I took the top off and ran some more tests. I was a little off in my numbers from earlier.
Recirc: pump is 38, filter is in 20s (its all over the place)
Waste: pump is 28

So do both gauges go to zero when the pump shuts off?

Have you tried swapping gauges to make sure they read the same?

There should be only a couple of PSI difference between the pump and filter gauge. So if the measurement is real, there is something wrong with the plumbing/valve between the pump gauge and the filter gauge.

What are the two pressure readings when in filter mode?

 

[JamesW]

Probably a clogged cell.

Remove the cell and make sure that it is clean.

 

[JamesW]

The pump motor was made in August 1996.

The cell has unions, so it is easy to remove to check.

The ionizer was made 2-12-1994.

 

[JamesW]

Why does this say "Stops Water" with an arrow pointing the opposite way?

Do you have regular returns and jets?

Can you show all return plumbing?

Can you show the pool?

Can you show the sticker on the bottom of the salt cell?

I would get rid of the ionizer.

 

[fire29]

So do both gauges go to zero when the pump shuts off?

Have you tried swapping gauges to make sure they read the same?

There should be only a couple of PSI difference between the pump and filter gauge. So if the measurement is real, there is something wrong with the plumbing/valve between the pump gauge and the filter gauge.

What are the two pressure readings when in filter mode?

Yes.
No, I will try swapping.
Filter is about 30. Pump is 40. To me this is "couple of PSI difference". Theres 3 turns no valves(other than the filter multiport) between pump and filter.

Probably a clogged cell.

Ive already removed it and checked. Ive removed all lines to/from filter except the waste line and checked all them. Cell is good (maybe needs a minor cleaning but not clogged). Only after lines turn (vertical to pump, and after the return turns 90 back to the pool) Ive not inspected in this removal.

The ionizer was made 2-12-1994.

Ive not turned it on. After I get more important things like SLAM and this pressure issue figured out Ill probably remove/cap it. FYI the pool per permits was installed in 89. The room was completely flooded/redone after 96 (hurricane fran). So the plumbing is probably from one of those dates. FYI that plate is not the ionizer it self, but the casing it was in. I agree the case was made in 94 but it could have been "built" later.

Why does this say "Stops Water" with an arrow pointing the opposite way?

Its to stop backflow when Im cleaning the pump strainer or any work (like this morning opening the filter top). All this is below ground.

Do you have regular returns and jets?

I guess. Ill try to post pictures shortly. Theres one odd thing that I was going to make a separte what is this post, that may be a jet but its got a weird fitting. It doesnt flow. Otherwise theres 2 normal returns/jets, plus the bubbler which is like 2 feet from a regular jet and i can tell is directly connected based on flow when its open.

Can you show all return plumbing?

See picture of the whole setup I posted yesterday. Its a single return line back. Any splits are underground with no access. Theres no diverters or valves to individual returns. Just the one valve at the "backwards"/nozzels/jets

Can you show the pool?

Will take one marked and post shortly.

Can you show the sticker on the bottom of the salt cell?

Will take one marked and post shortly.

I would get rid of the ionizer.

See my other remark on it.

 

[mas985]

Yes.
No, I will try swapping.
Filter is about 30. Pump is 40. To me this is "couple of PSI difference". Theres 3 turns no valves(other than the filter multiport) between pump and filter.

1-2 PSI delta is a "couple of PSI difference". 10 PSI is 23' of head which is way too much for that short of a distance with only a couple of fittings and the pump being dead headed (i.e. close to 0 GPM). Something is wrong with either the measurements or the plumbing. First make sure the measurements are valid (i.e. swap gauges). If it is valid, then we need to find out why the pressure at the pump and filter are so high and why there is such a large pressure delta between the pump and filter.

 

[fire29]

https://imgur.com/a/oIRtPdT

Said image was too large of my annotated picture of the whole pool. Orange is skimmers, Red is returns, purple is the last picture (possible weird return, see below).

Theres no sticker on the bottom. Only the model label on both sides (same).

I think this is a return, but its got an open attachment in it, and no flow at all. It does not have a regular "jet" cap on it like the others do. It might be attached to the booster pump for the slide (which Ive not turned on).

 

[mas985]

How far is the pump below the top of the pool water level?