MITBeta
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- May 28, 2020
- 1,235
- Pool Size
- 13000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
What is this device?
- Thread starter jfreeman
- Start date
Have you called Center Point Energy yet. They can help you with the type of meter you need. I had them upgrade my meter because I have 400k pool heater, 1 hot water heater, gas dryer, gas stove, gas grill, and 2 fire bowls at pool. Is there a chance all we be on at the same time, yes it happens in winter more than I thought.
Turbo1Ton
Gold Supporter
- Dec 26, 2019
- 1,840
- Pool Size
- 14500
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- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Quick background, I work for an industrial combustion system manufacturer and do gas system design for the ignition systems on our equipment. I wanted to knock my PB's plumber upside the head when he installed the gas line to the pool pad because he put a regulator on the heater and when I questioned it, he wouldn't listen to what I was asking. I was not being rude, or trying to imply I knew more than him, bc I don't do residential and there is plenty that I don't know. I just kept asking him what things were for and telling him I didn't understand because the manifold was only at 9" WC, not 2psi as he kept saying. Long story short, I had to tell the PB that the line wasn't going to work and they got him back out and he had to redo all of his work.
Most likely the gas company installed the reg at your meter. And I'll bet the plumber that installed the reg at the heater did the same thing that my plumber did, was note the MAOP of the meter, not what pressure was coming out of that regulator. I would get a plumber out and discuss with them and make sure you and they both understand if that reg is needed. My guess is that it is not. My pool heater will run with an inlet pressure of 4-14" WC, and I would guess that most heater manufacturers are set up like that. Because most residential installations are set up for 8-14" WC outlet at the meter.
Regarding the gas flow issue, my initial meter was only rated for 250,000BTU's, and I had a potential demand of 630,000BTU's before I had the pool heater installed. Potential demand after adding pool heater and fire pit went up to roughly 1.1million BTU's. I called and asked for more volume, they sent a service guy out, he tried to talk me into jumping up to a 2 psi system, but that would mean I would need to install a regulator at my gas manifold in my garage, or at every user, and I didn't want to do either. So he threw a larger meter on there.
Realistically, I will never get near that 1.1 million level, as there are several gas drops that I am not using, such as the dryer, indoor fireplace, garage connection. But the potential is there, so I wanted to make sure it could handle it. Pool heater seems to work a little bit more efficiently now, not a lot, but what I don't have is the outdoor fire pit flame sucking down when the pool heater kicks on. Because I have enough volume to handle them both at the same time.
As RPHpool suggested, give your utility provider a call. Mine was happy to throw a larger meter on there so that they could sell me more gas. Most are.
--Jeff
Most likely the gas company installed the reg at your meter. And I'll bet the plumber that installed the reg at the heater did the same thing that my plumber did, was note the MAOP of the meter, not what pressure was coming out of that regulator. I would get a plumber out and discuss with them and make sure you and they both understand if that reg is needed. My guess is that it is not. My pool heater will run with an inlet pressure of 4-14" WC, and I would guess that most heater manufacturers are set up like that. Because most residential installations are set up for 8-14" WC outlet at the meter.
Regarding the gas flow issue, my initial meter was only rated for 250,000BTU's, and I had a potential demand of 630,000BTU's before I had the pool heater installed. Potential demand after adding pool heater and fire pit went up to roughly 1.1million BTU's. I called and asked for more volume, they sent a service guy out, he tried to talk me into jumping up to a 2 psi system, but that would mean I would need to install a regulator at my gas manifold in my garage, or at every user, and I didn't want to do either. So he threw a larger meter on there.
Realistically, I will never get near that 1.1 million level, as there are several gas drops that I am not using, such as the dryer, indoor fireplace, garage connection. But the potential is there, so I wanted to make sure it could handle it. Pool heater seems to work a little bit more efficiently now, not a lot, but what I don't have is the outdoor fire pit flame sucking down when the pool heater kicks on. Because I have enough volume to handle them both at the same time.
As RPHpool suggested, give your utility provider a call. Mine was happy to throw a larger meter on there so that they could sell me more gas. Most are.
--Jeff
- Mar 5, 2020
- 60
- Pool Size
- 18000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I had already called the gas company before making this thread. They only care about the equipment up to and including the meter. Everything after is my responsibility.
I called a master plumber to come take a look and he confirmed my suspicions. I have a pressure regulator before the meter, installed, maintained, and owned by the gas company, that outputs low pressure (7" WC). The meter feeds straight into my house where all the equipment expects low pressure and may or may not have individual pressure regulators installed before each outlet. (Likely not because that would be much more expensive.)
The pool heater expects low pressure (4" to 14" WC) and has a pressure regulator installed before it to output low pressure, even though that regulator is not required in my current configuration. The pipe that runs through the ground and connects the meter to the pool heater is 3/4". According to the pool heater manual, there is no length of pipe that diameter that can deliver enough gas at the low pressure that is coming from the meter.
The meter is rated for 425 CFH but all my equipment together can demand 800 CFH. After I convert my kitchen to gas and plumb for an outdoor grill, I'll be looking at 950 CFH.
I have two options to fix the situation:
1. Pay the gas company to install a new higher volume meter at the same low pressure for $350. Pay a plumber to replumb the pipe under the ground, installing larger 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" pipe.
2. Pay the gas company to install a new higher volume meter at high pressure for $350. Pay a plumber to install a low pressure regulator where the pipe enters the house, out of line with the pipe that enters the ground.
If I have a leak in the underground pipe, then I may as well do (1). If I don't have a leak, then (2) might be cheaper. I'm still gathering quotes.
I called a master plumber to come take a look and he confirmed my suspicions. I have a pressure regulator before the meter, installed, maintained, and owned by the gas company, that outputs low pressure (7" WC). The meter feeds straight into my house where all the equipment expects low pressure and may or may not have individual pressure regulators installed before each outlet. (Likely not because that would be much more expensive.)
The pool heater expects low pressure (4" to 14" WC) and has a pressure regulator installed before it to output low pressure, even though that regulator is not required in my current configuration. The pipe that runs through the ground and connects the meter to the pool heater is 3/4". According to the pool heater manual, there is no length of pipe that diameter that can deliver enough gas at the low pressure that is coming from the meter.
The meter is rated for 425 CFH but all my equipment together can demand 800 CFH. After I convert my kitchen to gas and plumb for an outdoor grill, I'll be looking at 950 CFH.
I have two options to fix the situation:
1. Pay the gas company to install a new higher volume meter at the same low pressure for $350. Pay a plumber to replumb the pipe under the ground, installing larger 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" pipe.
2. Pay the gas company to install a new higher volume meter at high pressure for $350. Pay a plumber to install a low pressure regulator where the pipe enters the house, out of line with the pipe that enters the ground.
If I have a leak in the underground pipe, then I may as well do (1). If I don't have a leak, then (2) might be cheaper. I'm still gathering quotes.
Turbo1Ton
Gold Supporter
- Dec 26, 2019
- 1,840
- Pool Size
- 14500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
That's insane the the gas company wants to charge you for a larger meter. More gas = more money for them.
Will be interested to hear what you end up doing.
--Jeff
Will be interested to hear what you end up doing.
--Jeff
BowserB
Silver Supporter
- Jul 29, 2018
- 777
- Pool Size
- 15000
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- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I don't know what is normal or typical here in the Houston area, but CenterPoint is the gas provider. My meter had to be upgraded when a 22KW standby generator was installed, and that preceded the pool. There are two regulators at the meter--one ahead of the meter and one on the "Christmas tree" which splits to the house with a regulator (for the usual house stuff--hot water, furnace, cooktop) and another branch to the standby generator and pool heater, both of which have regulators. So in total, there are four regulators in our gas line: one "main" regulator, one for the house, and one each for the generator and pool heater. I don't recall paying CenterPoint for the meter upgrade, but it could have been paid by the generator installer and included in the installation price. When the pool was built, the plumber concluded that there was sufficient gas supply that no further upgrades were necessary. I don't know what would happen if the power went out and the generator started up while the pool heater was running at the same time the furnace, water heater and cooktop were on.
- Mar 5, 2020
- 60
- Pool Size
- 18000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I'm in Houston too, and the gas company I've been talking about is Centerpoint. From conversations on Nextdoor, I got the impression that free upgrades were a thing of the past, and they only upgrade for free now if they have to replace equipment anyway, e.g. because it is end-of-life. Just another thing Millennials have to pay for that Boomers didn't. 