Wet Edge Satin Matrix start up

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Today marks Day 8. I will start following Table C of the Wet Edge Start Up Instructions. The only differences on that table are:
-CH 250–275
-Periodic usage/weekly additions of sequestering agent

Regarding the CH, I’ll discuss that after I post today’s results below.

Re: metal sequesterant. I definitely will not be adding more vs what Burkett’s added at start-up. I am convinced the sequesterant is having an adverse affect on my FC. I’m actually not sure how long it’s going to stay in my water. That’s my question and concern. My pool water was tested over the summer and there were no metals detected. However, the socks at the end of the two hoses I put in were definitely dingy when the fill was completed.

Day 8 @ 0915
FC: 0
CC: 0
OTO chlorine: 0
pH: 7.8
TA: 90
CH: 175-200
CYA: too soon to test. Will wait 1 week as fully dissolved last night. Targeted 30.
h2o temp: 54

As I believe my CH is either 175-200, should I bring up to 250?

I just added 58 oz of 12.5% chlorine last night at 1745. Today tested FC 0. Should I add another 58 oz?
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Day 8 @ 1300
Added 58 oz chlorine, 15 oz MA, 80 oz CaCl.

Figured it’s better to add less Ca & test later, and add more as needed vs overshoot level.

Dissolved between 16 oz to 32 oz at a time in a 5 gal bucket of pool water. Stirred it around w/ wooden paint mixing stick, & then poured it in deep end. Brushed pool thereafter.

Although Pool School recommends to broadcast CaCl in deep end, dissolving small amounts and then pouring worked well.
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Day 9 @ 1715
pH 7.8
FC 0
CC 0
TA 90
CH 300-375
CYA ( too soon to test)

Appears even putting in 58 oz chlorine is getting all used. 58 ounces 12.5% chlorine is getting used within 24 hours. It’s an expensive proposition to just keep dumping in 58 ounces daily for it to be zero the next day. Do you guys think I should just bypass chlorine until a few more days? I just don’t know how much longer this metal sequestrant is going to permeate in the water.

And, it looks like I overshot my CH goal of 250 to 275. Even adding in 80 oz, which was a little more than 70% of cool maths recommended 112 ounces by volume. I overshot. Perhaps then my level really wasn’t 200 to start with. I am having a hard time gauging if my level is 300 to 375. But I’ve tested three times. At this time Wet Edge recommends a level 250 to 275. But, I don’t know why I can’t be following TFP’s 250–350. Even if my level is actually 375, should I sweat that?

Will add 14 or 15 ounces of MA.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
3,264
Northern NJ
Your CH is fine. Don’t sweat it. As you are learning, managing chemistry is not precise. In things you dont want to overshoot it is better to add 2/3 of the dose, test, and sneak up on your target.

Keep on adding CL. While the CL has a cost, if you get algae a will cost you even more.
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
After your reply Allen, shortly there after, I added the chemicals, 58 oz chlorine and 15 oz MA.

Brushed and then tested at 1930:
FC 0

Something cannot be right here. I added it less than 1 1/2 - 2 hr ago, brushed thoroughly, and I still get 0. Even added 3 scoops of the powder, as I was getting no color change. Something is awry and I just keep stating it... it’s got to be that metal sequestrant.

This is just whacky.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
3,264
Northern NJ
I have never used metal sequesterant and have no experience with it.

I suggest you add CL and then check your levels every 15 minutes and see what the drop is.

I would take a gallon of tap water and measure the CL in it. Then calcuthe CL needed to raise it to 10 ppm and add it. Test the water just to confirm your CL and testing methods.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
35,991
Tallahassee, FL
I have never used metal sequesterant and have no experience with it.

I suggest you add CL and then check your levels every 15 minutes and see what the drop is.

I would take a gallon of tap water and measure the CL in it. Then calculate CL needed to raise it to 10 ppm and add it. Test the water just to confirm your CL and testing methods.
This is awesome advice. This will take you out of the equation when you see your testing method is correct (I am sure it is but best to check).

I am also very interested in the 15 mins FC tests to see what happens there.

KIm:kim:
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
I have never used metal sequesterant and have no experience with it.

I suggest you add CL and then check your levels every 15 minutes and see what the drop is.

I would take a gallon of tap water and measure the CL in it. Then calcuthe CL needed to raise it to 10 ppm and add it. Test the water just to confirm your CL and testing methods.
I tried to enter 1 gallon in Pool Math, but it won’t even calculate numbers on a figure that small. How do I figure out how much to add to raise 1 gallon up to 10 ppm?

Have not performed the test yet but I’ll try to get to it today after work as well as check every 15 minutes or so.
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Thanks Allen. Here is what I got.

Day 10 @ 1700
ph 7.8ish
FC 0
CC 0
OTO chlorine 0
TA 90
CH <or=375
CYA too soon to test

Added 14 oz MA. Added 60 oz 12.5% chlorine. Did some brushing for 15 minutes. Noted some chlorine smell during brushing. Retested chlorine.
FC 0

Performed 1 gallon test as outlined. However, I miscalculated. Instead of dividing by 10, I just divided in half. So although my number was off, I still did get pink color in my chlorine sample, and was able to change its color, however it took me 125 drops so I had a 1 gallon sample with 62.5 ppm of chlorine because I added 2.5 ML‘s of chlorine versus 0.3 ML‘s.

Whatever the case, I believe my testing measures are fine. This sequestrant is neutralizing my chlorine within 15 minutes.

Moderators, do you know anyone with experience on overcoming the adverse affect of metal sequesterant on FC? Chem Geek? Joyfulnoise (Matt)? I remember Matt you had shed some light into a post I made in August about Orenda, the metal sequestrant recommended by Wet Edge.
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
No, I don't want to drain & refill b/c of this. Last resort and I don't feel I am there yet.

Day 11 @ 0600
Added 100 oz 12.5% chlorine. When home later after work, will continue these 100 oz additions (to FC 5 or so) until this sequesterant is exiled. Need to p/u another case of 4 gal. on way home b/c it's using so much.
 

JamesW

TFP Expert
Mar 2, 2011
12,835
Why do you think that it's the sequestrant that is consuming the fc?

What sequestrant was used and how much was added?

Are you getting any CC?
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Why do you think that it's the sequestrant that is consuming the fc?

What sequestrant was used and how much was added?

Are you getting any CC?
From what I’ve read here at TFP forums, there are documented accounts whereby metal sequesterant has interfered with FC. I do not know the exact chemistry of the reaction, but my understanding of it is that it neutralizes the free chlorine.

Still attempting to find out from Burkett’s what they used.
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Day 11 @ 1700
pH 7.8-8
FC 0
CC 0
TA 90
CH 325-350
CYA (too soon to test)

Picked up another case of 12.5% chlorine. Added 100 oz chlorine, 18 oz MA. Brushed.

@ 1747
FC 0.5

Added 100 oz chlorine. Brushed.

@ 1800
pH 7.6
FC 3.5

Added 3 oz MA, 30 oz chlorine. Brushed.

@ 1830
FC 4.5

Added 30 oz chlorine.

@ 1845
FC 5.5

Added 10 oz chlorine.

Day 12 @ 1030
FC 1
pH 8

Added 35 oz MA with intention to lower TA to 80 and drop pH to 7.2 to slow pH rises. Added 100 oz chlorine. Inserted sump pump on steps to aid in aerating pool to raise pH.

@ 1145
pH 7.4

Added 15 oz MA.

@ 1600
pH 7.2
FC 5.5
TA 90

Added 10 oz chlorine. No MA addition yet.

Questions/comments:
1. Would lowering my TA to 80 vs. currently 90 really help in slowing the pH rises with my new surface? Would there really be a noticeable difference in the pH rise that would justify lowering it to 80? It appears thus far that a TA of 90 is working. I can't really distinguish how much of my pH rise is d/t my the new surface vs. a perhaps higher TA of 90.
2. Would it be better to fine tune my TA after the first 28 days to let the Wet Edge Satin Matrix fully cure?
3. Appears the sequesterant is finally breaking down and my FC is beginning to hold.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
3,264
Northern NJ
Questions/comments:
1. Would lowering my TA to 80 vs. currently 90 really help in slowing the pH rises with my new surface? Would there really be a noticeable difference in the pH rise that would justify lowering it to 80? It appears thus far that a TA of 90 is working. I can't really distinguish how much of my pH rise is d/t my the new surface vs. a perhaps higher TA of 90.
2. Would it be better to fine tune my TA after the first 28 days to let the Wet Edge Satin Matrix fully cure?
3. Appears the sequesterant is finally breaking down and my FC is beginning to hold.
Patience, patience ... don't start fooling with TA. Your PH is rising due to the plaster curing. It can take 6 months to a year for the plaster to fully cure. During that time you will be knocking down the PH regularly with MA and lowering your TA. Force your TA down too early and you can then have problems of low TA.

Just feed your pool MA and manage the PH. Only adjust the TA if it gets below 50.

Glad to see the CL is staying.
 

bbrock

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2014
696
Livermore, CA
Patience, patience ... don't start fooling with TA. Your PH is rising due to the plaster curing. It can take 6 months to a year for the plaster to fully cure. During that time you will be knocking down the PH regularly with MA and lowering your TA. Force your TA down too early and you can then have problems of low TA.

Just feed your pool MA and manage the PH. Only adjust the TA if it gets below 50.

Glad to see the CL is staying.
Thanks Allen. Glad I didn't act and start tinkering with the TA. pH is 7.2 though. I stopped aerating with my sump pump. Do you think Allen that 7.2 necessitates directly raising via aeration, or it's okay to let it naturally rise? I know it has been said by Kim that problems take time to develop and having water >0.3 or <-0.3 is okay temporarily. So, given that, should I sweat the pH 7.2 and having a CSI a little more negative than -0.3? Generally speaking, I have been aiming for a pH from 7.4-7.8.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
3,264
Northern NJ
Just let the PH rise. Dont be so quick to add MA. See how long it takes for the PH to go from 7.2 to 8.0? Does your PH rise by .1 or .2 or .4 a day? Learn what your pool does to the point where you can predict the PH. Then you will be able to recognize when your PH rise slows down.