This is what gives me reason to doubt the plaster company. They started filling it immediately after they finished the same day of installation
Water rings in New plaster
- Thread starter Mr.Bond
- Start date
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,689
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Just to remind, I feel I only have a slight handle on some of this, and have no experience with quartz. That said... IMissNimoy: your signature says "gray plaster." I was unaware that plaster would be acid washed as part of a normal installation. Pebble is acid washed to remove enough plaster to reveal the right amount of pebble. Quartz, no idea. I would think:
1. Acid washing new plaster would compromise its feel, it's smoothness and its lifespan to some degree.
2. Acid washing pebble a second time (assuming it was acid washed enough the first time) would reveal more pebble than is preferred. Does that weaken the pebble and/or expose more of the pebbles than it should? Would that second wash impact its lifespan?
3. Quartz?
4. From the pics, it seems they emptied Bond's spa to acid wash it, or did you say they didn't use acid on the spa? What did they do?
5. One of the pic's implies they are somehow acid washing the sun deck while the pool is full. Huh? This is what I was taught constitutes a proper acid wash. Drain the pool. Rinse the plaster/pebble. Pre-prepare some sort of neutralizing capability. Prepare the acid mixture to the "strength" (pH) required for the job (but no stronger). Apply that mixture appropriately to the affected areas, and when the acid has performed its "duty," neutralize it immediately. Not just rinse it into the deep end, unless the deep end is filled with a neutralizing solution. Do small areas at a time, and as quickly as possible. Repeat as necessary. Something like that.
How does one do a controlled acid wash with the pool full of water? I hadn't heard of that before. And how is the acid neutralized once it's done? Did your guy neutralize the whole pool? Or just add acid, brush it around, and tank the entire pool's pH? If the latter, what are the long term effects of lowering the pH like that on new plaster (and other pool equipment)?
Sorry, I'm asking more questions than I can answer, but those are the answers I'd want to know if this were my pool.
I'm glad that the spa and pool are looking better. Bond: are you satisfied that whatever those stains were, were normal for a quartz finish, or were they the result of a faulty installation? And if the latter, is correcting it as they are doing a satisfactory solution, or a hack job to cover their mistakes? Again, I have no idea, but I'd like to...
1. Acid washing new plaster would compromise its feel, it's smoothness and its lifespan to some degree.
2. Acid washing pebble a second time (assuming it was acid washed enough the first time) would reveal more pebble than is preferred. Does that weaken the pebble and/or expose more of the pebbles than it should? Would that second wash impact its lifespan?
3. Quartz?
4. From the pics, it seems they emptied Bond's spa to acid wash it, or did you say they didn't use acid on the spa? What did they do?
5. One of the pic's implies they are somehow acid washing the sun deck while the pool is full. Huh? This is what I was taught constitutes a proper acid wash. Drain the pool. Rinse the plaster/pebble. Pre-prepare some sort of neutralizing capability. Prepare the acid mixture to the "strength" (pH) required for the job (but no stronger). Apply that mixture appropriately to the affected areas, and when the acid has performed its "duty," neutralize it immediately. Not just rinse it into the deep end, unless the deep end is filled with a neutralizing solution. Do small areas at a time, and as quickly as possible. Repeat as necessary. Something like that.
How does one do a controlled acid wash with the pool full of water? I hadn't heard of that before. And how is the acid neutralized once it's done? Did your guy neutralize the whole pool? Or just add acid, brush it around, and tank the entire pool's pH? If the latter, what are the long term effects of lowering the pH like that on new plaster (and other pool equipment)?
Sorry, I'm asking more questions than I can answer, but those are the answers I'd want to know if this were my pool.
I'm glad that the spa and pool are looking better. Bond: are you satisfied that whatever those stains were, were normal for a quartz finish, or were they the result of a faulty installation? And if the latter, is correcting it as they are doing a satisfactory solution, or a hack job to cover their mistakes? Again, I have no idea, but I'd like to...
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I have quartz and the plaster company barely used acid before we filled causexthey wanted me to brush off the cream so the surface would not get worn with a full acid wash. They diluted the acid like crazy. I even commented to my builder and his guy who speaks Spanish talked woth the guys and they explained this. I also followed up woth the owner of the plaster company and he said the same thing. He said more of a better to be safe than sorry. My plaster came out perfect I feel. It’s amazing the change in surface over that month from brushing. I’m glad they did my quartz that way.
I just read the rest of this thread. Regarding the change in color after the acid wash. The black specs u mentioned. Same here. I didn’t see any of those in my quartz either bit after all my brushing they came through cause I was taking off the cream and dust. If u look at my plaster day 1 and after all the brushing it’s night and day. My plaster looked like white day 1 almost but day after day it was like opening up a gift.
From all I read quartz should be filled right after it’s done like other finishes.
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We filled right after they were done also. Non stop with water trucks. And then I brushed 2xday for 4 weeks.
Some plaster companies will acid "wash" both quartz and pebble pools before filling to remove the so-called cream layer and expose the quartz or pebble, and they may do that the day of plastering or the day after.
Some plaster companies will fill quartz pools immediately after plastering and then do an acid "bath" (adding many gallons of acid to the pool water) once the pool is filled with water. That is done also to expose the quartz. After a few days of that acid wash treatment, they will neutralize the pool water with sodium bicarbonate or perhaps soda ash.
Regardless of how those treatments are done, acid treatments (bath or wash) are generally detrimental to a plaster finish, whether it is typical white plaster, colored plaster, color quartz or pebble pools. Removing plaster/cement material is generally detrimental.
With respect to Mr. Bond's pool, the spa may have been acid washed, or it may have been sanded with sandpaper or a grinder to remove the puddle stains. (I didn't see anywhere where it was stated for certainty). Sanding (or polishing) would leave the quartz plaster finish very smooth, but a severe acid treatment will generally etch the plaster and leave it somewhat rough to the touch. The likely reason that there is some whitish discolorations (streaks or blotches) in the pool is probably due to excessive water troweling. Splashing water on to a hardening plaster surface and troweling the water into the surface is detrimental by causing porosity. I have written about that subject in some of my other posts. However, looking at the photos, it also is possible that plaster dust formed in the pool, and hardened on the surface because it was not removed.
Even though a strong acid treatment removes discolorations and all looks well, unfortunately, it can leave the plaster finish rough enough that it will turn whitish after a period of time, anywhere from one month to a year. It all depends of the severity of the acid treatment. And when the plaster turns whitish (in streaks or blotches) afterwards, it is generally mistaken that the "whitish" discoloration problem is due to scale and caused by bad water chemistry and balance. Instead, the whitish discoloration is generally due to a porous and pitted plaster surface.
I suggest that sanding and polishing is the best way to remove stains and discoloration of any kind. The surface will be smooth, hard, and dense (non porous) afterwards.
Some plaster companies will fill quartz pools immediately after plastering and then do an acid "bath" (adding many gallons of acid to the pool water) once the pool is filled with water. That is done also to expose the quartz. After a few days of that acid wash treatment, they will neutralize the pool water with sodium bicarbonate or perhaps soda ash.
Regardless of how those treatments are done, acid treatments (bath or wash) are generally detrimental to a plaster finish, whether it is typical white plaster, colored plaster, color quartz or pebble pools. Removing plaster/cement material is generally detrimental.
With respect to Mr. Bond's pool, the spa may have been acid washed, or it may have been sanded with sandpaper or a grinder to remove the puddle stains. (I didn't see anywhere where it was stated for certainty). Sanding (or polishing) would leave the quartz plaster finish very smooth, but a severe acid treatment will generally etch the plaster and leave it somewhat rough to the touch. The likely reason that there is some whitish discolorations (streaks or blotches) in the pool is probably due to excessive water troweling. Splashing water on to a hardening plaster surface and troweling the water into the surface is detrimental by causing porosity. I have written about that subject in some of my other posts. However, looking at the photos, it also is possible that plaster dust formed in the pool, and hardened on the surface because it was not removed.
Even though a strong acid treatment removes discolorations and all looks well, unfortunately, it can leave the plaster finish rough enough that it will turn whitish after a period of time, anywhere from one month to a year. It all depends of the severity of the acid treatment. And when the plaster turns whitish (in streaks or blotches) afterwards, it is generally mistaken that the "whitish" discoloration problem is due to scale and caused by bad water chemistry and balance. Instead, the whitish discoloration is generally due to a porous and pitted plaster surface.
I suggest that sanding and polishing is the best way to remove stains and discoloration of any kind. The surface will be smooth, hard, and dense (non porous) afterwards.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,689
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Thank you so much @onBalance for the explanations...
What I heard: if Bond's spa was sanded to remove those rings, he's in good shape. If it was acid washed... not so much.
And what I'm extrapolating: if the shelf's treatment (and/or the rest of the pool's treatment) was/will be an acid bath, that's not great for the entire pool, even if they were targeting just certain areas.
What I heard: if Bond's spa was sanded to remove those rings, he's in good shape. If it was acid washed... not so much.
And what I'm extrapolating: if the shelf's treatment (and/or the rest of the pool's treatment) was/will be an acid bath, that's not great for the entire pool, even if they were targeting just certain areas.
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No pool expert, but some experience with quartz finishes, and yes, an acid wash is normally used to reveal the quartz
As you can see the acid treatment is not the best way to do it. It is the easy way but easy is not always best. @onBalance has made it his mission to try to help people get a good plaster job and to find out what works and what does not work for the short and long term for the best life for a plaster pool. He has numerous papers, articles, and such about it.
Just because something is done normally that does not mean it the best way. "I have been building xx for 20 yrs" does not mean they have been doing it right or the best way. There is ALWAYS room for improvement and new ways if someone is willing to listen and learn.
Kim TFP MOD
Mine did that and I did all the things they suggested and finally after 9 months had them acid washed...The plaster company said the top layer didn't wear off like it should have.
I made the mistake of waiting till late fall when the leaves and rain were coming down and while it was empty it looked worse..Finally got it cleared up but wish I had done it while the weather was decent
I made the mistake of waiting till late fall when the leaves and rain were coming down and while it was empty it looked worse..Finally got it cleared up but wish I had done it while the weather was decent