UV and SWG combo

[mchandler]

Just joined the TFP forum and I'm pretty excited about all the useful info. Up until now, I'd paid someone to maintained our pool. Now I'm starting anew and doing the maintenance myself. My question is regarding my UV and SWG combo. But first, my goal was to try and have a clean and clear pool while cutting down on the amount of chlorine my family was swimming in. I'd originally installed a Delta E46 UV system and switched the SWG to the OFF position, and only used smaller amounts of liquid chlorine because all the wonderful literature I'd read about UV systems said I could let the UV handle the bulk of my sanitizing and thus, use lower chlorine levels. (I used liquid, for I was told by several other sources than running a SWG on super low wasn't going to give a consistent result.) While this UV/lower chlorine level combo may work for other pools, it wasn't working for me. We live in Valencia Ca, surrounded by lots of trees and it gets windy up here. My pool often has a TON on leaves and debris on it each day that keeps me busy daily, alongside paying someone else to do it weekly. I found that in the summer I had to keep my chlorine levels(using liquid) around 3ppm with the UV and still, it was a battle. I use a flow meter and the math tells me that I'm getting about 2.5 turnovers per day, running a variable speed pump at 1750rpm for 14 hours, followed by 2 hours at 3500 rpm to skim the top. The UV unit feels like a waste of money at this point.

I'm about to cut down and trim some trees around the pool to try and help with the maintenance, and then I'm gonna partially or fully drain it because my cyanuric acid levels are 160 due to my pool guy using conditioner. Here's the meat of my question: In the name of convenience and since my pool is already plumbed for it, I'm thinking of switching the SWG back on. I have no idea how old it is, however. I've lived in the house for 2 years and, as far as I know, it was working up to the point that I turned it off. Valencia has some of the hardest water in Los Angeles, and my pool's calcium reading is 520. Would it be worth it to attempt to clean the SWG w/acid and see if it still has life left? Or just buy a new one?

I'm gonna have many other questions as I step forward into learning how to do all this myself, but for now, I'll leave it there.

 

[Newdude]

Hey M and welcome !!!

Depending on how deep you'd like to go in order to feel better ditching the UV, have a read here

UV Systems - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

TLDR its an over glorified light bulb that leaves zero sanitation for 99.9999999% of the pool water. Which will need to be 100% sanitized with chlorine (liquid or SWG) or it becomes problomatic.

But first, my goal was to try and have a clean and clear pool while cutting down on the amount of chlorine my family was swimming in

We can help !! If you religously follow the FC/CYA Levels, the CYA at any value will buffer the chlorine to be less harsh than tap water. Sterile and odor free. Any chlorine you have ever felt in a pool did not respect the CYA / FC relationship.

Drain the pool per this guide and what fits your situation best.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

There is no CYA in fill water so you'll need to drain an equal % to lower CYA by as much. ****But***** do not take such an endevor without knowing your actual levels from a Taylor drop based kit. The TF100 from tftestkits.net, or the K2006C. The pool store particurally gets CYA wrong. Test strips are worse than that.

You have nothing to lose by trying the SWG. Open it up and inspect it. Knock any scaling off with a popsicle stick. Give it a bath with Muriatic acid dilluted 10:1 with water if any remains, and only until the fizzing stops. Then stop immediately and rinse it well.

Get a k1766 to get your baseline after draining. There will be no telling if its 150 or 450 and you need to know before you go. Then add the appropriate salt and fire up the SWG.

There is more to all that above, so keep us posted and we will fill in the details at the time.

 

[ajw22]

Knock any scaling off with a popsicle stick. Give it a bath with Muriatic acid dilluted 10:1 with water if any remains, and only until the fizzing stops. Then stop immediately and rinse it well.

SWG How It Works - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

How to Clean a SWG Cell​

You should only clean a SWG cell if it has visible scale on the plates.

First try and use strong blasts of water to remove the scale.

You can scrape the plates with a stick, like a Popsicle stick, to remove the scale.

If the scale is stubborn then use cleaning vinegar (6% acetic acid … available in Home Depot). It’s milder than Muriatic Acid and won’t damage the ruthenium surface. Highly concentrated mineral acids are not good for the transition metal catalysts.

Cleaning a SWG cell with Muriatic Acid diluted solution will remove some of the rare earth coating from the plates and reduce the life of the cell with every cleaning.

Get a k1766 to get your baseline after draining. There will be no telling if its 150 or 450 and you need to know before you go.

K-1766 Taylor Salt Test

tftestkits.net

Then add the appropriate salt and fire up the SWG.

When you power up the SWG post the diagnostic information from the control panel screen.

Hayward Aquarite SWG - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

This is the basic information we need to know in diagnosing a problem:

• Report all readings when you..
  • Move the switch from auto to off and check all of the readings.
  • Move the switch back to auto and recheck the readings.
  • Move the switch to off for a minute and then back to auto and recheck the readings.
• What are the first seven characters of the cell and box serial numbers?
• What is the actual salinity and how are you measuring it?

 

[Newdude]

If the scale is stubborn then use cleaning vinegar (6% acetic acid … available in Home Depot). It’s milder than Muriatic Acid and won’t damage the ruthenium surface.

Oh yes it will. Any acid will remove some coating. Less is better though.

 

[pjt]

my goal was to try and have a clean and clear pool while cutting down on the amount of chlorine my family was swimming in.

Why? Chlorine is a good thing if it's maintained for your CYA level. Here is the chart: Chlorine / CYA Chart

99.9% of the time, the problem is inadequate chlorine. This is your situation as well.

I was told by several other sources than running a SWG on super low wasn't going to give a consistent result.

SWG will give you very consistent results if it's used correctly. Your "other sources" are giving you bad advice.

I'd originally installed a Delta E46 UV system

You get ample free UV from the sun in L.A..

I found that in the summer I had to keep my chlorine levels(using liquid) around 3ppm with the UV and still, it was a battle.

It was a battle because your CYA is very high and your FC is extremely low.

I'm getting about 2.5 turnovers per day

Turnover requirements are a myth. Run your pump for a purpose (skim, chlorinate, circulate).

my cyanuric acid levels are 160

How are you testing? You need a measurement with a proper test kit to make sound decisions. If it's really that high, you'll need to drain and refill about half your water.

The UV unit feels like a waste of money at this point.

I hate to tell you this, but you're right.

I'm thinking of switching the SWG back on.

This is a great idea.

Would it be worth it to attempt to clean the SWG w/acid and see if it still has life left?

What's the condition of the cell?

 

[mchandler]

WOW! Really love all these replies. Thanks to each of ya' for chiming in. I certainly feel I'm in the right place to learn. I'll simply say that I'm gonna follow the above links, read up, order a proper test kit, and get started on inspecting my SWG. I'm sure I'll step back in w/questions when/if I have them.

 

[BowserB]

A couple things. What was the battle you were dealing with? Free chlorine level? Algae? Here's my experience since September 2018. Our PB suggested the Ozone and UV appliances from Paramount. It wasn't much money--in the grand scheme of things, anyway--so I did it. I figured I'll maintain FC based on chlorine alone and the ozone and UV-C would be extra protection from crypto and some other buggies. Kindof a belt and suspenders approach. Last year when liquid chlorine disappeared from my local Walmart, I reconsidered SWCG. Since then I've maintained FC in the range 5-7ppm with CYA at 70. No complaints from anyone, including my wife who can detect discomfort at a princess and pea level and can pick out every aroma and flavor in a glass of wine that to me smells and tastes like...wine. We've never had even a hint of algae, while my neighbor two doors down had algae within a month of filling his new pool.

Leaves? We have Wax Myrtle trees on two sides of the pool--recommended and planted by a landscape architect based on our plans to have a pool. He said, Wax Myrtles are evergreen. Apparently evergreen has a different definition in landscape architect land, because what it apparently really means is that they drop hundreds of little skinny leaves all year long, but more in the winter. We have prevailing wind out of the south, training the leaves from that direction, so when a front comes through from the north, all those trained leaves blow off the trees and into the pool. On a really north windy day, I'm fishing leaves out of the pool three or four times, and cleaning the skimmer socks twice. But we still never have algae.

A couple weeks ago, the second of the two UV-C bulbs went out. Replacement bulbs will cost $200. I'm debating whether to replace them or just disconnect the power the the UV unit.

Hard water. I suffered hard water for 45 years in Houston, because I didn't want to add sodium to our water with a water softener. Hard water left white rings on everything, destroyed water heaters in just a few years, and compromised cleaning by the washing machine and dishwasher, as well as any other water-using appliance like coffee makers. Plus if you didn't towel dry the shower doors and walls, you'd have white stuff left behind. Then I heard about potassium chloride water softener salt. Expensive--I pay $26 a bag compared to $7 for sodium chloride pellets--but it is like the good old days when I lived in Baton Rouge with naturally soft water from artesian wells. Only downside is I have to once in a while add calcium to the pool, as my fill water has -0- calcium hardness. Benefits to the whole house are worth the cost to me, but you can get a small softener for just your pool fill. When our "diva" granddaughter comes over, she just raves about our soft water in the shower and how silky smooth her hair is. Installation of a whole house water softener including a 5-stage drinking water filter under the kitchen sink was $2,700. I can't think of anything I've ever bought for that amount that has been even half as beneficial.

 

[mchandler]

Hey Bill, thanks for the reply. And my apologies for taking literally a month to respond- apparently, I don't have the notifications set up properly so I didn't even know you'd written until I checked back in on the thread.

You asked my main battle and it was algae and free chlorine levels. I've got the TF-100 test kit on order, but prior to that Leslie's had shown my cyanuric acid at 160ppm and so keeping my FC levels in check just seemed to require more liquid chlorine, more often in a given week to keep it balanced. I've just pulled out several trees around my pool this week, so I'm planning on draining and refilling and starting over. Also gonna clean out my SWG and start it up to see if I can just switch away from liquid chlorine. In terms of soft water- your tips are super helpful. But in Santa Clarita it's illegal to use a softener due to the contamination of the soil. They were outlawed in like 2014. My neighbor says there is a type that's allowed but I gotta look further into it at some point in the near future.

Lastly, my original "idea" after having read all this great stuff about UV and it allowing you to run FC levels much lower just seemed like a win-win to me. Meaning, my logic was that even though certain levels of chlorine aren't considered harmful to swim in, if I have an opportunity thru technology to put my family in even less amounts of chlorine by using a UV system that's running 17-18hours per day, then why wouldn't I want to have that? But alas, maybe that's a thing of Unicorns and personal indoor pools only used by a few people per day.