Thoughts on Red Dots

[JasonPNW]

First post. First pool. Been up and running for less than a year. Track with the TFP app since pool was started.

FC - 2.5
CC - 0.2
TA - 100 (working on getting down)
CH - 250
pH - 7.3
CA - 50

Pool covered with auto pool cover. Temps usually 80-90°f.

What are the thoughts on the red spots? Used a filter sock for the first time starting about a week ago. Never had any water problems.

Thank you in advance!

11K gal, IG fiberglass, Jandy VS 1.85hp, 460 sqft cartridge filter, Jandy TruClear SWG, Jandy JXiQ 399k NG, DEL Ozone, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

 

[Bperry]

First post. First pool. Been up and running for less than a year. Track with the TFP app since pool was started.

FC - 2.5
CC - 0.2
TA - 100 (working on getting down)
CH - 250
pH - 7.3
CA - 50

Pool covered with auto pool cover. Temps usually 80-90°f.

What are the thoughts on the red spots? Used a filter sock for the first time starting about a week ago. Never had any water problems.

Thank you in advance!
View attachment 637764View attachment 637765
11K gal, IG fiberglass, Jandy VS 1.85hp, 460 sqft cartridge filter, Jandy TruClear SWG, Jandy JXiQ 399k NG, DEL Ozone, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

Maybe not related to red dots but your test procedure has some kind of error because the FC and CC measurements are in 0.5 or 0.2 ppm increments. Can get one in 0.5 and the other in 0.2.

 

[Texas Splash]

Even though you have a cover, do you have plants/trees nearby that could've dropped anything to cause this type of staining? Maybe slipped underneath? Any toys or accessories in the water that might have caused it? Kids' or someone who might have dropped something in the water?

 

[JasonPNW]

Maybe not related to red dots but your test procedure has some kind of error because the FC and CC measurements are in 0.5 or 0.2 ppm increments. Can get one in 0.5 and the other in 0.2.

I don't always test at the 25mL mark. For the CC, when using the 10mL test, if there is barley and pink tinge at all after adding the DPD reagent #3, I call it 0.2 instead of 0.5.

 

[JasonPNW]

Even though you have a cover, do you have plants/trees nearby that could've dropped anything to cause this type of staining? Maybe slipped underneath? Any toys or accessories in the water that might have caused it? Kids' or someone who might have dropped something in the water?

We have plenty of organic life around the pool. ~30ft Laurel, Cherry tree that just got done flowering, bushes are currently flowering, and a Maple that still has left over seeds blowing out every so often. We get earth worms that have found their way in. One frog a week or two ago.

Kids and toys, got those too, lol but no food/drink has been around...yet.

It just got me concerned as I seem to have noticed an uptick in FC demand; had to kick the SWG up. Since this is the first year, I don't have a reference or feeling for "normal" FC demand.

I tested the CA this morning as i haven't in a couple months. Looks like its closer to 40 than 50. Being in the Pacific Northwest and having an auto cover I had planned on keeping CA on the lower end. Will be bringing it back up to 50 after my pH increases back around 7.8.

 

[Bperry]

I don't always test at the 25mL mark. For the CC, when using the 10mL test, if there is barley and pink tinge at all after adding the DPD reagent #3, I call it 0.2 instead of 0.5.

Ok, there’s really no need to do that in the future. Just leave it at 0.5 or zero. The action plan for both of those are the same.

 

[pjt]

FC - 2.5

Always keep your FC at the target for your CYA. Stay far away from the minimum. For a CYA of 50, 5 is a good FC. Are you passing an OCLT?

TA - 100 (working on getting down)

You don't need a dedicated effort to lower TA. Just manage pH with MA and your TA will go down over time.

 

[JasonPNW]

Always keep your FC at the target for your CYA. Stay far away from the minimum. For a CYA of 50, 5 is a good FC. Are you passing an OCLT?

I haven't run one yet. Before seeing the red dots above, I haven't had any indications of a problem but also hadn't used a filter sock. I put a new filter sock in. I'm going to see how it looks in a couple days with the FC kept higher as you've noted . This morning it was at 3.6.

You don't need a dedicated effort to lower TA. Just manage pH with MA and your TA will go down over time.

The pool builder brought over a bunch of chemicals and gave a recipe of what needed to be done after using some type of automated water analyzer. I took their recommendations and also read through the Jandy manuals and increased the TA. Literally few minutes after, I paused...looked at all the chemicals and thought naa, I need to read before I continue following recommendations without understanding. I'm glad I did. Found out the TA shouldn't/didn't need to be that high. pH was getting high; thank goodness I didn't use the pH down product they brought over. I get why they had it in the box of chemicals though, most people shouldn't be playing with MA without understanding how to use it, what PPE to wear, and how to store it. As I've slowly brought the TA down (with MA and stabilizer), I've noticed the pH hasn't dropped as fast.

 

[ajw22]

most people shouldn't be playing with MA without understanding how to use it, what PPE to wear, and how to store it.

Chemical Storage and Safety - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[pjt]

I haven't run one yet.

Let us know the result.

I haven't had any indications of a problem but also hadn't used a filter sock

A lot of nascent problems don't show anything visually until the problem is significant. A filter sock won't make a difference if you have a chemistry problem.

This morning it was at 3.6

Still on the low side. Keep your FC above the middle of the target range for your CYA (5+).

The pool builder brought over a bunch of chemicals

What chemicals were put in your water?

using some type of automated water analyzer

You have a K-2006, which is an excellent test kit. Do you have a SpeedStir?

I took their recommendations and also read through the Jandy manuals and increased the TA.

TFP methods will deliver superior results. A non-trichlor pool (such as yours) should never need baking soda under normal circumstances.

most people shouldn't be playing with MA without understanding how to use it, what PPE to wear, and how to store it.

MA can be dangerous, but if used correctly and with the right precautions isn't a problem. Same concept as power tools.

 

[JasonPNW]

Let us know the result.

I might just go straight to SLAM? My math is indicating a greater than 1 ppm FC loss.

Pool cover on
4:45pm Sun = 5.0 FC
10:45am Mon = 4.5 FC
Pool Math calculator says for 18hrs @ 30%, 2.2ppm FC was generated. That would indicate a loss of 2.7 ppm FC in 18 hours. The family did get out of the pool @ 3:45pm Sun.

What chemicals were put in your water?

During construction:
- HASA 12.5%
- Some algaecide. I think it was GLC Algimycin 2000.

After first test done by pool company:
- Metal sequestering agent, little over 1 pint. Copper was high, likely due to the algaecide. Iron was at 0.1 ppm.
- GLB Sodium Bicarbonate as it was indicated that Alkalinity was low (80ppm). It was after adding this I paused and went down the rabbit's hole to learn more.
- GLB Calcium Chloride. Hardness was at 89 ppm.
- SeaKlear PhosKlear 4000. Phosphates were at 1835 ppm.

Chemicals on hand:
- GLB pH up
- GLB supersonic
- GLB Sequa-sol
- GLB pH down (will be disposing of as I don't want unnecessary compounds like sulfates in my water)
- SeaKlear Chitosan Clarifier

Since I found TFP:
- GLB stabilizer to bring CYA up
- Muriatic Acid to keep pH in line
- HASA ecozyme to deal with the oils and sun block

You have a K-2006, which is an excellent test kit. Do you have a SpeedStir?

- I still need to get that ordered!

 

[TopJimmy]

One possibility: I noticed the concrete mites are out now. If crushed or otherwise dead: They can make red marks on the apron and presumably elsewhere.

Clover mite - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[TinFoilHat]

Remember that the OCLT beginning is after the sun is off the pool and the end test is before the morning sun hits the pool.

 

[JasonPNW]

Remember that the OCLT beginning is after the sun is off the pool and the end test is before the morning sun hits the pool.

Understood, but that is to eliminate the loss of FC due to UV, no? With an auto cover pool cover I don't think that FC loss is a concern.... or is it?

 

[TinFoilHat]

OCLT is to determine if you have any organics using up the chlorine while the sun is not using it up. If the cover is on at evening and morning then as long as the temperature isn't real high you should get an accurate test.

 

[Bperry]

Understood, but that is to eliminate the loss of FC due to UV, no? With an auto cover pool cover I don't think that FC loss is a concern.... or is it?

You can’t have the SWG on either.

 

[Newdude]

With an auto cover pool cover I don't think that FC loss is a concern.... or is it?

Covers reduce most of the UV demand, but don't eliminate it. The OCLT removes all variables so there is only one thing consuming FC if you lost any.

 

[pjt]

Pool Math calculator says for 18hrs @ 30%, 2.2ppm FC was generated. That would indicate a loss of 2.7 ppm FC in 18 hours.

Turn the SWCG off during the OCLT.

During construction:
- HASA 12.5%
- Some algaecide. I think it was GLC Algimycin 2000.

After first test done by pool company:
- Metal sequestering agent, little over 1 pint. Copper was high, likely due to the algaecide. Iron was at 0.1 ppm.
- GLB Sodium Bicarbonate as it was indicated that Alkalinity was low (80ppm). It was after adding this I paused and went down the rabbit's hole to learn more.
- GLB Calcium Chloride. Hardness was at 89 ppm.
- SeaKlear PhosKlear 4000. Phosphates were at 1835 ppm.

Chemicals on hand:
- GLB pH up
- GLB supersonic
- GLB Sequa-sol
- GLB pH down (will be disposing of as I don't want unnecessary compounds like sulfates in my water)
- SeaKlear Chitosan Clarifier

Since I found TFP:
- GLB stabilizer to bring CYA up
- Muriatic Acid to keep pH in line
- HASA ecozyme to deal with the oils and sun block

Wow, that's a lot of potions. The only algaecide you need is chlorine. Other types of algaecides can add undesirable chemicals (such as copper) to your water. Phosphates normally aren't an issue if you adhere to TFP standards. Many of the chemicals you listed have detrimental side effects and are counterproductive.

What's the CH and TA of your fill water?

The only routine chemical you need is MA. You'll top up salt and CYA a couple times a year. That's it, nothing else.