TF 100 Test kit arrived

[Johnny B]

5/7/09
Nightly test, about 24 hours after last added bleach using Normal Target 7, (Normal range is 3-7).
FC 3, I’m hoping to see a FC of 4 in the evenings so added 205oz of bleach using Target 8,
CC 0.5

5/8/09
Nightly test, about 24 hours after last added bleach using Target 8, (Normal range is 3-7).
FC 4.5, I’m hoping to see a FC of 4, so tonight I’ll use a Normal Target 7.5, so added 123 oz bleach
CC 0.5
pH 7.5
We've had quite a bit of rain over the last 48hrs

I'll post every few days. Let me know what is next. Borates? But we wanted to see "things settle down" before borates.

 

[JasonLion]

Your results have been reasonably stable for the last several days. Now would be a good time to get a full set of test results (well, use the CYA from last time unless you added some recently) and use that to plan how to get everything ready for adding borates.

 

[Johnny B]

5/9/09
4:00pm (away nighttime)
FC 3.5
CC 1
So target 8, so added 185oz with 3 hours sunlight remaining

5/10/09
9:30pm about 30 hours after last added bleach
FC 3 so added 205 oz bleach using Normal Target 8
CC 0.5

5/11/09
pH 7.5
TA 110
CH 340
CYA not tested since none added
FC 5.5 about 24 hours after adding bleach, so I'll add bleach with Target 7
CC 0.5

I thought I’d add borates next but it seems I have to 1st lower TA & I read that “bringing your alkalinity down is a physical process that can take several days and deserves its own article” & that” Lowering TA can take some time, days or even weeks, depending on the amount of aeration you have and how far you need to lower your TA”; so I don’t think I want to deal with all that after this ammonia hassle.
Am I correct that I can simply add (without all the days or weeks of pH & TA adjusting etc) Proteam’s Supreme Plus:
http://www.poolgeek.com/ProTeam-Supreme ... googlebase
for about $139 + S&H for 45lb for my 19,800 gallon pool?
And do you have any other opinions about this topic of me adding borates?

Secondly, am I correct that once I verify that my bleach needs are reasonably unchanged from day to day (for example, I seem to adding around 185-205oz each night) that I can nightly use the OTO TC test?
I see the OTO TC test maximum is 5 for CC so that is of little help?
The idea with the OTO TC test is that IF I see my TC lower than my desired 5 (I want to see an evening FC of 4 & a CC of not more than 1), then I use my TF100 Test Kit to test FC & CC?
How do you recommend I use the OTO vs. the TF100 Test kits for daily & weekly chlorine demand tests?
Thanks

 

[JasonLion]

Once you figure out the approximate amount of chlorine you are adding each day, you can test with the OTO test just to make sure nothing strange happened (like FC falling to zero) and the FC level is somewhere around 3+ and then add the predetermined amount of chlorine. Then, about once a week, you can test with FAS-DPD and see if you need to adjust your daily amount of chlorine for the next week.

Boric acid from The Chemistry Store is a little less expensive than ProTeam Supreme Plus. Either will work and both are simple to add.

 

[Johnny B]

I'll do boric acid. I have an acct w a local chemical store.
Is there a concentration or other properties I need to ask for?

Get the LaMotte test strips.
Test w the strips
Enter Now & Target in calc. (Is 50ppm my Target?)
Add Boric acid.
Test afterwards
Test monthly thereafter
Is this about it?
From what I read most seem to have no change in pH but of course I'll monitor that.

I'll continue reading on TFP re Boric acid, I've been through a few threads already but I must go.

Thanks

 

[JasonLion]

We have been using "technical grade" boric acid, which seems to be the most common way it comes in bulk.

Adding it will lower your PH, but not by very much, probably somewhere between 0.1 and 0.3.

You don't really need to test monthly. Testing two or three times a year, or when you suspect major water replacement should take care of it.

 

[chem geek]

Mystery solved: Tell the Mrs. to stop peeing in the pool! :lol:

Thought you could use a good laugh right about now

You just had to bring up this possibility, didn't you
As I described here, it CAN happen!

Johnny B, I'm glad it finally looks like your pool is settling down.

 

[Johnny B]

ChemGeek,thanks. Man it wore me out, almost as much as my testing errors. I think I read that you too had an ammonia issue? I saw Waterbear at your house late one night rolling a big barrel with an "A" something written on the barrel & thought to myself: how nice, delivering some Anheuser Busch product to his buddy. Guess that “A” was for ammonia.

I would like to know: if this ammonia issue existed in past years, would it be apparent? What would the signs be? This is the 1st year of BBB/TFP methods performed by me; all prior years done by my wife & Leslie’s.
I can tell you that I did take a water sample into Leslie’s (at TFP’s request) & they said nothing about the ammonia/any problem except “raise the pH a bit with this stuff”.

 

[JasonLion]

When you have ammonia it takes huge amounts of chlorine before your can maintain a FC level. Most pool stores will notice that the FC level is near zero and tell you to do something about it. So I assume you have not had a similar problem in the past.

 

[Johnny B]

Things still going well. Using OTO test now.

2 day pool deck perimeter re-caulking job finnally over- wore me out.

Borates on the way.
How soon can people swim after adding boric acid? I realize to run the pump 24 hrs.

Thanks

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Johnny B- How are ya!

Love happy updates.

 

[JasonLion]

You can swim an hour or two after adding boric acid.

 

[Johnny B]

5/14/09
FC 4; ideal so keep target 8, added 164 oz bleach.

5/15/09
Assumed TC 4, forgot OTO test-

5/16/09
Assumed TC 6, tested with OTO for first time.

5/17/09
Assumed TC 6.5, tested with OTO.

5/18/09
Assumed TC 6.5, tested with OTO, still far from ideal 4 so change Target FC from 8 to 7.

5/19/09
TC 4.5, tested with OTO, closer to ideal 4 so change Target to FC 6.5
pH 7.5

5/20/09
TC 4.5, tested with OTO, closer still to ideal 4 but lower Target to FC 6.

5/21/09, 7 days since last FAS DPD test, so ran both OTO & FAS DPD to see how my OTO tests stack up.
- OTO TC 4.5, I would think “closer still to ideal 4 so lower Target to FC 6”, but
- FAS DPD (ran the test twice) : FC 2.5, CC 0.5, so I will raise Target to FC 8.
- For the heck of it, & to see if last year’s R-003 reagent is still good, a Leslie’s test kit “Trouble Shooter DPD” (using R-001 + R-002 to test FC then R-0003 to test TC, all use a shade of red rather than yellow) that was new last season(before I began TFP this season): FC 2-3; TC 2. I actually used this same kit, in addition to the OTO of my TF 100 kit, 3 other times this past week & things were acceptably close to the OTO.

My questions or concerns:
Hard to believe the variance between OTO & FAS DPD? Or is this common?
Hard to believe I am misreading the shades of yellow in the OTO, the entire week looked well above yellow shade 5 until yesterday.

Borates not here yet, maybe soon.

Comments welcomed.

 

[JasonLion]

Distinguishing TC levels above 2 using the OTO test takes practice. I think one of the problems is that the color standards above 2 don't really match what you see very well.

The main use of the OTO test is just to make sure that there is some chlorine in the pool, which means nothing went drastically wrong.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

It's been 2 years and I still can't read a difference between 2 and 5. I rarely even use the OTO anymore because of that reason.

 

[Johnny B]

It's been 2 years and I still can't read a difference between 2 and 5. I rarely even use the OTO anymore because of that reason.

So waht do you do daily?

FWIW, that “Trouble Shooter DPD” (using R-001 + R-002 to test FC then R-0003 to test TC, all use a shade of red rather than yellow) is easier to read, it actually reads in the 4-5 range nightly which is likely accurate- I'll verify that w my next weekly FAS DPD.

It seems to be around 4.5 nightly, & I target 8, is that about what I should expect?

We're getting a lot of rain this week so I'm delaying the borates.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Yes, that sounds normal.

I just use the FAS-DPD test.

 

[WATERWORT]

I have to say that this was a fascinating thread and even though it took a lot of patience from everyone involved, the process itself will be very useful to people like me that are just trying to learn. All of the errors and confusion actually helped explain why things shouldn't be done other ways.

I do have a question that relates to all of this. Throughout all of these conditions would it have been "safe" to swim in that water? The high chlorine levels while he was shocking are easy enough to understand, but prior to that he said he had clear water and he was dumping in large amounts of chlorine...was the water unsafe during that period?

Also, mostly for entertainment could we get a report on how much bleach was actually used in the end to win this battle?

 

[JasonLion]

WATERWORT, welcome to TFP!

It would not have been safe to swim during the early period when FC was vanishing instantly and CC was very high. Once the FC level started testing at semi-plausible levels it would probably have been safe to swim, though the CC level would presumably have caused a significant amount of skin irritation.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Also, mostly for entertainment could we get a report on how much bleach was actually used in the end to win this battle?

Yes, Johnny, what WAS the finally tally? And how's your wife handling things these days?

Welcome Waterwort!