TF 100 Test kit arrived

[frustratedpoolmom]

Just wanted to post to let you know we're not ignoring you. Hang in there.

 

[Johnny B]

4/30/09
10:00pm about 24 hours after shocking
FC 6 so added 3 gallons or 3.9 (96 oz) jugs for shock Target 15
CC 1

About 1 hour after above shocking, Target 15
FC 16.5
CC 1

5/1/09
8:30am, about 10.5 hours after last night’s shocking, shock Target 15
FC 14, I suppose a case could be made for a FC 13.5, that close.
CC 0.5, I suppose a case could be made for a CC 0.0, that close.
pH 7.5, an increase, with no actions by me to specifically increase pH.
No rain yet, but are expecting some daytime scattered storms today & for next 6 days.

Is shocking over?
How to proceed tonight? Shock if I get what test results tonight?

If I do shock, is that “1-hour-after-shocking” test necessary- I’m using > 30 drops of reagent to discover every night that shocking FC held or exceeded the shock Target?

Thanks

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

This is FABULOUS!. Your overnight loss was cut in half, you only lost 2ppm. Your CC is down to .5 overnight! You are SOOO CLOSE...I can feel it. I'm hoping that tonight it the last night you'll have to go thru this. Just one more night, lets cross our fingers. I really think this is it. Great job JohnnyB! :super:

 

[Johnny B]

5/1/09
9:15pm. About 23 hours after last night’s shocking, shock Target 15
FC 7 so added 2 gallons 2 quarts or 3.4 (96 oz) jugs
CC 1

About 1 hour after above shocking
FC 16
CC 1

5/2/09
8:30am, about 13 hours after last night’s shocking, shock Target 15
FC 12
CC 1
pH 7.5,
No rain, but are expecting (30% chance) daytime scattered storms today & for next 5 days; water level is about a 1/3 of inch low, should I add water?

When I shock, is that “1-hour-after-shocking” test necessary- I’m using > 30 drops of reagent to discover every night that shocking FC held or exceeded the shock Target?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I'm so dissappointed. I don't get it. I just don't get it.


Why is this taking so long???? I'm getting frustrated for you!

Is anything falling in your pool, leaves - organics? that could explain the FC loss... are your neighbors taking secret nighttime swims ?

I guess in theory, the 1 hour after bleach addition test is not "required" at this point...I wanted to make sure you were in fact, reaching your target, which every time you have successfully done so....it's just a hard number to compare to in the morning.

So I think at this point it is safe for you to assume that you reached your target, and just test in the morning....and if you are less than 14 on the FC then you likely had a drop again.

I'm so sorry Johnny!

(Last year we had a gal who wasn't hitting her target...she was using bad bleach from a dollar store. IT took the retesting 1 hour after addition a few times to figure that out, once she switched bleach brands her pool cleared.)

 

[Johnny B]

Is anything falling in your pool, leaves - organics? that could explain the FC loss...
usual stuff, skimmer & netting keeping it in check, April we get lots of pollen & May we get lots of cottonwood tree junk. Cedar trees deposit their junk when the wind blows. Usually bird dropping if we take the cover off too late etc but none AT ALL this year (till today, a fluke I suppose). I did inquire re pump run time. I was 24/7 but then TFP OK'd a reduction, so I did, about 8 hours/day (two 4-hr segments). Want me to raise pump time? If it won't help then forget it. Through all this I've wondered about those cedar tree droppings. Its not a new thing but answer this: if there was an amonia issue in past years, its quite possible that my wife & Leslies would never know about it, right? Or would there be signs that something was wrong? The other thing I thought of is that I want to learn TFP's closing techniques & what to do over the winter because what if that was the source of error


So I think at this point it is safe for you to assume that you reached your target, and just test in the morning....and if you are less than 14 on the FC then you likely had a drop again.
OK
Got it

I'm so sorry Johnny!
This is indeed a drag. I told my wife I'd take over the pool this year & use "a better & cheaper way to do it"- she laughs at me & often reminds me she spent less at Leslies for a season compared to what I went through in a few weeks, implying this TFP way isn't the way to go. I explained the amonia issue. But remember I went to Leslie's at your request & their test results indicated "to raise the pH a bit"- nothing close to all the technical help TFP offered. Wants to know "why don't you just drain some?" Why aerate, what a waste of electricity, why not just add the stuff we have on hand to raise pH, ?" The whining aside, she did operate the pool fairly problem free (key word fairly) since 1992 & now I take over & all this- can you imagine yourself in this scenario? If I can get to a point where the amonia issue is resolved, maybe if I add borates my wife will be impressed? For now, I look silly to her

(Last year we had a gal who wasn't hitting her target...she was using bad bleach from a dollar store. IT took the retesting 1 hour after addition a few times to figure that out, once she switched bleach brands her pool cleared.)
I was clear to check the concentration of the bleach

So many said "I see the end in sight". I don't- at all.

 

[Johnny B]

5/3/09
7:30am, about 10 hours after last night’s shocking, shock Target 15
FC 12
CC 1

10:15pm, almost 25 hours after prior night’s shocking, shock Target 15
FC 7.5 so added 2gallons 1 quart 3 cups or 3.2 (96 oz) jugs
CC 0.5

5/4/09
7:00am about 12 hours after last night’s shocking, shock Target 15
pH 7.5
FC 14
CC 1
No lie, ran both tests twice.
Water level about ½” low & rain can’t be counted on.
Now what?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Well I'm gonna go out on a limb. (We have discussed your situation behind the scenes.)

It's very likely the ammonia is gone. Your FC drop during the day is normal, you have very minimal overnight FC loss, so it's unlikely to be from the ammonia at this point.

During the day, the CC drops to .5, so the sun is destroying the CCs.

I would say you could try a "normal" schedule for a the next week and see what happens. Keep an eye on your water...if it changes color, looks dull or cloudy, etc. or you see algae you may have to shock again.

Keep your FC between 3 and 7, you'll have to add enough chlorine each day to make sure it doesn't drop below 3.

Do your normal maintenance, vacuming, backwashing the filter, etc., make sure you check any areas that don't get good circulation, etc. brushing - all that boring stuff....you want all the crud (leaves, etc.) out each day so it's not using up your FC.

At the end of the week, do an overnight test to see if the FC is holding, and keep us posted.

If the others don't agree with this plan, they will let you know. But that's my thoughts on it.

Good luck Johnny, you've really been thru the ringer on this one. You did a great job

 

[Johnny B]

(We have discussed your situation behind the scenes.)
I figured

It's very likely the ammonia is gone. Your FC drop during the day is normal, you have very minimal overnight FC loss, so it's unlikely to be from the ammonia at this point.
Want a free Petsmart ammonia test?


During the day, the CC drops to .5, so the sun is destroying the CCs.
Bleach destoys the CC too? Just trying to learn

I would say you could try a "normal" schedule for a the next week and see what happens. Keep an eye on your water...if it changes color, looks dull or cloudy, etc. or you see algae you may have to shock again.
OK, I do know how to shock

Keep your FC between 3 and 7, you'll have to add enough chlorine each day to make sure it doesn't drop below 3.
Nightly I test it, & add bleach with a Target of 7 whenever it is under 7, right?
If ever a nightly test reveals < 3 then shock w Target 15, right?
No early am tests needed? Or maybe the 1st day or 2 to verify I'm > 7 or above & not < 3?

Do your normal maintenance, vacuming, backwashing the filter, etc., make sure you check any areas that don't get good circulation, etc. brushing - all that boring stuff....you want all the crud (leaves, etc.) out each day so it's not using up your FC.
Nothing new to me. My pump run-time is OK, about 8 hours/day (two 4-hr segments). ?

At the end of the week, do an overnight test to see if the FC is holding, and keep us posted.
Oops, this answers my above question. "Holding" means: I test 1 hr after adding bleach & verify I reached or exceeded Target, then the am test to verify I didn't drop > 1 FC from the Target , right?

If the others don't agree with this plan, they will let you know.
Apparently they agree, but I'll be checking

Thanks to everyone.

:

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Yep, very good, I think you have everything covered.

Try a 10 hour run time, for awhile.

 

[JasonLion]

No need for an ammonia test. If there was still any ammonia you wouldn't be able to get a FC test result as high as you have been getting. Ammonia and FC react very quickly, which is what was happening when you first started. The slow reaction you have been having for the least few weeks is something else.

Chlorine destroys some kinds of CC all by it's self, but other kinds of CC require a combination of chlorine and sunlight. Sunlight alone doesn't do very much.

You test once a day in the evening. The idea is to have the FC level the next evening be around 4. If it is below 4 then target a higher FC level than you did the day before. If it is above 4 then target a lower FC level than you did the day before. If the FC level goes to zero, then shock. FC of 7 is a good place to start, but it may need adjusting.

You explained the overnight test correctly.

 

[Johnny B]

Got it Jason.

I was incorrect in my post about when shocking is indicated. I thought if I got out of Normal Range to shock, but you shock if you have algae, or the (CC) level is above 0.5, or the free chlorine (FC) level is zero.

Just for my education:
1- why is my objective "to have the FC level the next evening be around 4"?
My Normal Range is 3-7. 5 is in the middle, but 4 is cheaper & very acceptable & I have some leeway if by chance I get to 3?
To have the FC level "the next evening be around 7" is ok but unnecessary & more costly?

You wrote: "Ammonia and FC react very quickly, which is what was happening when you first started. The slow reaction you have been having for the least few weeks is something else."
Is this "something else" common or is fairly rare (like an ammonia issue happens but is rare)? Am I cursed?

Thanks

 

[JasonLion]

In a perfect world you aim to have the FC level the next day be 3, but to give you some margin I am suggesting you aim for 4 instead. This small extra margin is because you have some extra chlorine demand. I am hoping that a little extra FC will help deal with it.

The range on the recommended FC level is for two reasons. First, every pool is different. Some pool simply require more FC to remain trouble free. Second, in normal situations you can target the top of the range and be reasonably sure of remaining above the bottom of the range the next day.

This slow reacting "something else" happens fairly frequently in combination with ammonia, but it usually only lasts a day or two. Your ammonia level was much higher than what we normally see, and likewise your "something else" level is also much higher than what we normally see. I don't know which exact chemical this "something else" is, but we do know a fair bit about how it behaves.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Mystery solved: Tell the Mrs. to stop peeing in the pool! :lol:

Thought you could use a good laugh right about now

 

[Johnny B]

Nightly test, about 23 hours after last night’s shocking, shock Target 15. This morning’s test reveal the first time a night shocking is not indicated.
FC 8, I’m hoping to see a FC of 4 in the evenings so no bleach added tonight
CC 0.5

We are finnally getting some rain now

That "something else" sure sounds spooky. I’m surprised ChemGeek or Waterbear haven’t isolated it & found the chemical to neutralize it faster than bleach- kidding.
Yea the Mrs- I’ll tell her what you said
:lol:

To keep this thread short (ha ha), I'll try to post several days of test results in one post after the end of the week overnight test unless I have questions sooner

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

To keep this thread short (ha ha), I'll try to post several days of test results in one post after the end of the week overnight test unless I have questions sooner

Nah....we're going for the record....Most posts in the shortest time period!

 

[Johnny B]

Alright if you insist:

5/5/09
Nightly test, about 46 hours after last added bleach which was shocking, shock Target 15 (Normal range is 3-7).
FC 5,
Because I’m only hoping to see a FC of 4 in the evenings, this FC of 5 would usually mean no bleach added tonight, but we just got 0.75 inches of rain pretty quick, all during the 90 minutes before testing & I ran this test as soon as the rain stopped. And perhaps more rain before tomorrow night’s test, so I’ll add 82 oz of bleach, derived from a Normal Target of 7.

CC 0.5

 

[JasonLion]

Because I’m only hoping to see a FC of 4 in the evenings, this FC of 5 would usually mean no bleach added tonight

Not quite right, perhaps you mis-wrote. If you left FC at 5 tonight, it would be below 4 by tomorrow night. You raise FC a couple of points above 4, so that it will have fallen back to 4 the next night.

 

[Johnny B]

I didn’t miswrite, but that makes sense & I kind of thought that.
5/6/09
Nightly test, about 24 hours after last added bleach which was Normal Target 7, (Normal range is 3-7).
FC 5, I’m only hoping to see a FC of 4 in the evenings so added 82oz of bleach using Target 7,
Plenty more rain earlier today
CC 0.5 is stretching it, 0.0 more likely
So we don’t loose fans, I better post a photo as the drama is waning & poolmom requested it.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

This is great news, and the pool looks wonderful. I think you are well on your way to enjoying a Trouble Free pool all summer.