Test kit in ... let the SLAMing begin!

[needsajet]

Not failing. Learning. It's a tricky pool. Not sure what to say. You're smart, curious and thorough, and from my vantage point, you have a good handle on TFPC and the SLAM.

So back to reality... SLAM it again, same criteria and process you learned before.

I hope we get new suggestions from experts that are helpful, but in the meantime, I think there's two simple things working against you.

1. The cover - parks itself underwater, has slats that are translucent with openings on the end. That means biological activity inside the slats is possible. We've improved things by getting flow in the cover vault under the pool floor, but this may still be a wrinkle.

2. High bather load relative to pool volume - Your last SLAM may have been perfect. There's no reason to believe otherwise. The criteria were met. The high bather load (7 people six hours) would result in chlorine extinction of (very roughly) 200 grams (4 g FC per person-hour plus 2 wees at 20 g FC each). In your water volume, that's 10 ppm FC. Maybe the pool was just a tad too low a tad too often.

The pool needs SLAMing (continue the track we're on) and then management practices that never allow FC to go below 7.5% of CYA.

I like 7.5% better for now. People with clean pools get away with 5% of CYA with SWCGs. Good for them. You've got the auto-cover that gets flooded and emptied once or twice a day. You want that chlorine (inside the slat) to have a very small job to do, because it doesn't get replenished, other than from CYA reserve, so it probably gets depleted inside the cover slats.

I've talked about this before, so I hate to say it again, but I agree with Dave that more frequent testing is important until your program is settled in. Your logging is excellent, but I would not consider less than every other day until you're happy with the pool. I do believe, because of the research you're doing, the questions you're asking, and your efforts to date, that you have an exemplary grasp of TFPC.

You have not wasted one second of my time, and I don't accept ya apologies, mate. None needed. Bring it on. Let's get this pool sparkly and easy to look after. It's a very interesting pool (submerged auto-cover) with top specs and beautiful finish. Lots of people will gain from your experience. Maybe we can write a 10-post thread when it's all over and everything is running great.

 

[buballodingo]

Thanks Needs...appreciated. Back to work:

1. I went into the pit today and there was algae/dirt, however this will always be the case so will try to find that balance that kills anything that has potential to grow. It was nowhere near as bad as last time as I am maintaining it. The slats a clear as.

2. My CYA was 60 so I replaced half my water to get to 30ppm so I can maintain a lower SLAM level.

3. I found another problem today with my dodgy heat controller. It was overriding the Electrochlor salt warning, so Im kind of hoping that this is why my FC drop was higher than normal as I was not producing chlorine as the rates my SWG should be. I disconnected it and have my fingers crossed that it was the issue all along. Never know though.

4. I have just refilled the pool, so will do some tests and SLAM till I meet the criteria.

Thanks again for your support, would be lost without it.

 

[Jezza]

Keep at it buballadingo. I totally agree with Needs and I think the key apart from resuming the SLAM is daily testing of FC until you know you've got a handle on the whole thing and see any patterns. This will highlight straight away whether there is a problem with your SWG.

 

[needsajet]

Good plan, mate. Good discovery on the controller as well.

The pit sounds like the algae farm we've been looking for. Maybe TFP can help you brainstorm a method to increase circulation in the pit after the SLAM.

 

[buballodingo]

Thanks Jezza!

Just tested...my results are:

DATE/TIME	FC	CC	PH	TA	CH	CYA	Salt	Borate	Temp	CSI
19/03/2017 19:25	5.0	0.5	7.4	50	75	25			24.00

I will need to test my CYA again tomorrow. I just took a guess as it was dark and not in the right conditions. So may need some minor adjusting.

 

[BattleOfYakima]

Good job getting the test results posted. I know you work and have kids and you want pool care to take as little time and money as possible. I can't stress enough that the more frequently you test and top off the FC with liquid bleach/chlorine, the faster your SLAM will be over. Testing only the FC should take less than 120 seconds and if you or another responsible person can test it at least 2 times a day (wake, bed), but really if you can get to 3+ a day (when home from work for example), obviously the goal is up to hourly when you're home/not sleeping. So just a quick recap before you SLAM:
1. you have to have liquid on hand, SWG alone will not cut it for SLAM
2. test the FC and keep your awesome records of it
3. add enough liquid to bring FC back to shock per your new CYA
4. brush as often as you can, at least brush 30 seconds on the problem spots
5. don't end the SLAM until you 100% pass all three criteria
Please remember that anyone that spent their time trying to help you and seemed harsh in doing so truly cared about you AND believed in your capacity to learn/understand/execute the procedures correctly and without unreasonable waste of time or money. Your feelings are valid, but please remember that feelings alone are not the whole truth, but rather just one source of input to help you make up your mind on what you decide the truth of the situation is. Choose the truth that says experts believe in you and know you're doing the best you can, and that you can do even better, and are giving you pointers and pointing out potential points where you can really improve with minor reading time. We all know you can do this. You've come very far. We're proud. Now let's take it from "pretty solid rookie" to "okay, I got this" where you just do what you need to, when you need to/can, and then move on back to family and other to-do list items. Best wishes with your SLAM. Keep the logs so the experts can help you solve the SWG questions.

 

[needsajet]

Just to put a bow on this, Buba has now started a SLAM, and is focused on that, and then improving circulation in the cover pit. Buba intends to do all he can in the way of frequent testing, and appreciates the advice from everyone.

Here's a bit of a summary, so you don't need to read the whole thread

Pool is about a year old and OP got ‘pool-stored’ in many ways, including a whack of copper. He found TFP when looking for a better path forward. He's very committed to TFPC.

Figuring out the whole picture took a week or so (tons of credit to Caco over in NZ). Then the pool was emptied to deal with excessive CYA and copper. Contamination was discovered in the underwater autocover pit. Great effort by OP to clean that out, including flushing the slats and buying a pump that could reach into the crevices in the pit. (see this post and this post to get a look at the autocover storage system, and this post and this post for a close-up of the cover slats)

Once the pool had all the muck removed, and the green flushed out of the slats, the pool was SLAMd with liquid chlorine starting around January 9. By Jan 17 the criteria were met and the SLAM was deemed complete (posts 268 to 272 including the celebratory water picture . Circulation in the cover pit was increased by pulling water from the pit, with the rest coming from the skimmer.

Pool gets high bather load. The daily peak was 42 bather hours in 5300 gallons of water, including children, suggesting around 10 ppm FC extinction for a day like that.

Through February, Buba was seeking settings that will work for him. Some doubts about SWCG, but overall the pool had been working OK for safety and clarity. Buba tops up with chlorinating liquid when needed and he’s able. The SWCG is a big one relative to the water volume, so overshoots also occur. Lately, he'd been working on other chem balance, water circulation and pool chem losses (other than FC).

Then the deluge hit - windy as, with the rain measured by how far it comes up your leg. If he’s anything like me, there were times it wasn’t safe to go out the door, let alone check on the pool. The lightning makes you jump out of your thongs (flip-flops, haha). Not the reason for algae problems directly, but made it harder to fit in the testing and tuning.

March 17, algae came back. SLAM was advised on Mar 18, and sort the rest out later. March 19 he drained to lower CYA and get a look in the pit. Algae and dirt was found in the cover pit, which Buba cleaned out on Sunday. So… after the SLAM is finished, Buba intends to add to his past efforts to improve circulation in the cover pit. I want to convey that the SLAM just started yesterday.

Buba and I both deeply appreciate the effective advice shared in the thread and available on TFP. Caco, KimKats, pabeader, Jezza, duraleigh, Battle and anyone else I’ve missed… thanks so much.

We were advised by pm that the thread is potentially counter-productive due to its length and the complexities arising from the unique nature of the pool, and were asked to take the thread in a different direction.

So we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. It seems best to continue the path we’re on: SLAM it; get the circulation right; then frequent testing and needed top-ups.

I’m in the same time zone and have the time, so I’m giving Buba a hand. I’ll circle back with a conclusion in the event we learn anything that might be helpful for others with a submerged autocover. I'll come back with questions as needed, and if anyone has any magic for circulating water more effectively in the auto cover pit, along with any/all other advice, ears are wide open.

In case there’s interest, here’s a list for finding pictures:
Overview of pool
Equipment pad
Autocover pit with tiled covers in place
Pit with one cover off
Autocover pit with pool drained and all covers off
Cover slats and link to videos
Cover slats showing vent holes
Water after Jan 9 start of SLAM
Water at Jan 17 end of SLAM
Best equipment pad pic

 

[kimkats]

Thank you for this write up of what has been going on and what is being done to get this wonderful pool clean and looking like a jewel! It is a matter of time, chlorine, and learning before this time of trouble will be a distant memory!

Kim

 

[needsajet]

As promised, here's the progress on Dingo's pool:

Pool was drained so the autocover pit could be cleaned out, removing the algae that had re-established in March (after the January SLAM)

Pool was then refilled, CYA added, pH corrected and then SLAMd. The SLAM was completed in about 7 days.

Pool looks beautiful and other water chemistry is now being fine-tuned <picture below>

Dingo is planning to add some downward shooting return jet attachments, pointed toward the cover pit. If that's not enough, we'll be looking for other ways to improve circulation and chlorination in the cover pit. If anyone has any suggestions, they'll be most welcome!! This appears to be a major contributor to algae issues because there is a significant volume of water with poor circulation leading to chlorine depletion. Testing will be increased to detect issues sooner.

We discovered a couple of things that might be helpful to others. The SLAM video suggests daily backwashing, which was too frequent and led to water and chemical loss from the relatively lower water volume. The filter also stayed too clean, so it didn't filter out the dead algae as quickly as it could have. Vacuuming was all done to waste, and once we got that going to filter, water and chem loss was reduced some more.

 

[pabeader]

Just a thought; What about directing ALL the returns to the pit area? That way the maximum amount of chlorinated water is going where it can do the most good.

 

[kimkats]

What a lot of work and effort he has put in this pool. It is SO pretty!

He has a drain in the pit that moves the water to the filter right? Is it tied into the skimmer and is there another drain in the pool? I am thinking maybe a sub pump down there? Just thinking out loud here.

Here is hoping he can find a way to keep it looking like it does now!

Kim

 

[BattleOfYakima]

Thanks for the awesome update and CONGRATULATIONS to you both! Awesome job! Very cool that this was so well documented for anyone in the future that discovers this little secret algae orgy.

 

[needsajet]

Yes, it is an interesting one. The drain in the pit is valved separately at the equipment pad, so the skimmer/drain mix can be adjusted. When the auto cover is closed, he's drawing most from the pit drain cause it won't skim anyway, and I think that's helping. And yep, good idea to send as much return water there as possible.