Switching from Frog to SWCG

[P00LNerd]

You can. Do you have the SWCG? Dump it in the shallow end and brush until dissolved. I tend to do 4-5 bags at a time and depending on water temp, takes 5-10 minutes.

Many of us swear by "diamond crystal solar salt."

SWCG is not here yet, but probably will be next week. Just figured that, if the goal is to sneak up on ideal value by doing a bag or two per day, it couldn't hurt to start adding the salt a little early.

I'll have to do a little planning with fittings, figure out exactly how I want to cut it in, so it may be 2 weeks before I cut pipe and plumb it in. Also dealing with some broken ribs right now, just happened last weekend, so that's slowing me down a bit.

I know I said I like to stop my pump overnight, to minimize heat loss in our cool nights, which is most of our season other than July. But if keeping the VS pump running slow speed all night would let me skip the timer, that may be a better solution for me. I see potential for the pump timer and a manual timer to get out of sync, esp. if I'm not always the only one changing the schedules, etc.

 

[PoolStored]

SWCG is not here yet, but probably will be next week. Just figured that, if the goal is to sneak up on ideal value by doing a bag or two per day, it couldn't hurt to start adding the salt a little early.

Correct.

I'll have to do a little planning with fittings, figure out exactly how I want to cut it in, so it may be 2 weeks before I cut pipe and plumb it in. Also dealing with some broken ribs right now, just happened last weekend, so that's slowing me down a bit.

You likely don't need to cut. You have plenty of space here for a horizonal install, and unions to make is simple.

I know I said I like to stop my pump overnight, to minimize heat loss in our cool nights, which is most of our season other than July. But if keeping the VS pump running slow speed all night would let me skip the timer, that may be a better solution for me. I see potential for the pump timer and a manual timer to get out of sync, esp. if I'm not always the only one changing the schedules, etc.

Without automation, you need to figure out a primary disconnect for the SWCG. The flow switch is insufficient. Either wire the pump and SWCG to the same control source (timer), or look into a CSR.

Here is my thread on the CSR install. I use this device, CR4395-EH-120-110-X-CD-ELR-I. It senses current on one of the pump's 220v lines and switches 120V to my SWG. Current trip point is adjustable.

Picture Thread! SWCG add, plumbing cleanup, pump power interconnect! Might help someone...

Started this thread because @IUsedToSail asked about orientation of valves/check valves. Made me realize I didn't do a plumbing thread on my rebuild. Some may know my story, new pool owner last year (came with the house), I was PoolStored...then I found TFP. Pulled out the UV system and the...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[P00LNerd]

I'm not sure my pump will be real happy running off a timer, I can't even imagine what it would do to the real-time clock in the pump. The CSR seems like a better solution for a VS pump with an RTC, don't you think?

 

[P00LNerd]

You likely don't need to cut. You have plenty of space here for a horizonal install, and unions to make is simple.

What's kind of funny is that this was my original plan, described a few pages back. I'm not going to go hunt for it, doesn't really matter who said it, but at least one person here told me it was a bad plan.

I guess their reasoning might have been that the bypass valve opens up the possibility of running the SWCG while water is being bypassed around it = *boom*!

 

[P00LNerd]

My "plan B" was to cut where I drew this red line:



I can install new 1.5" unions here, if I use a 2" reducer to grab the OD of the check valve output port.

They also wanted me to re-install that Jandy valve as a bypass around the heater, which would take a lot more cutting and reconfiguring... not exactly an easy move given the pool co installed the union on the input port of the heater totally crooked, not parallel or plumb with anything. You can see their input pipe to the heater isn't parallel with anything.

My vote was to skip the heater bypass, as I'm not sure it's really buying me much. But that was before I considered just keeping the pump running 24/7, to avoid needing any timer or CSR on the SWG. If pump is programmed to run 24/7, then the flow switch that comes with the SWG should be sufficient as the only means of protection, or so I thought. No different than using a timer, which is almost guaranteed to get out of sync with the pump clock at some point during its lifetime.

 

[PoolStored]

That is correct, there is no need for a bypass on the SWCG. I agree with your plan to cut and replace the bypass.

 

[Newdude]

I violently agree with the 24/7 no need for a timer plan.

 

[P00LNerd]

I violently agree with the 24/7 no need for a timer plan.

Excellent. I will run this way for the remainder of this year, and see how bad the heat loss gets in the last few weeks of the season.

Should I just install a flow gauge, so I can actually dial overnight pump speed near minimum flow rate requirement of the SWG? Right now, I have no idea and no way of knowing my flow rate. Other option is dual pressure gauges either side of the pump, as the pump manufacturer provided pressure drop / flow rate curves in the manual, but I suspect that's pretty inaccurate.

If yes to flow gauge, let me know which model folks here like best.

Other option is to just dial pump speed down until I trigger the bang/bang flow gauge on the SWCG, and then keep pump speed ~20% above that threshold.

 

[Newdude]

Should I just install a flow gauge,

I use the little green light on the SWG. When it's green for flow, it's enough GPM. Whether it's 30 GPM or 3, does it really matter ?

Kinda like FC, there's enough and there's not enough.

Find where it shuts off and add 100 RPM to account for the filter getting dirty and losing a little flow.

 

[proavia]

Consider repurposing the Jandy 3-way valve for a proper heater bypass.

 

[P00LNerd]

Consider repurposing the Jandy 3-way valve for a proper heater bypass.

View attachment 593204

I could do this, but because the pool co glued the unions to the heater at odd angles, it'll be a little figuring to get it done. Probably cut apart, figure new plumbing, order / go buy what I need, reassemble. Doable, but it'd have to really be worth the added time and effort to do it mid-season.

Do I really need a heater bypass? The flow rate on my heater seems good, I never notice more than 1.7 bar back pressure on the filter, even at full pump RPM. Blow 750 RPM, presumably where I'll be running for "low flow", it's 0 bar pressure.

 

[proavia]

Running the water thru the heater will require more pump rpm, which equals more electricity used.
Two pluses of a heater bypass

• Allows a lower pump rpm to satisfy the SWG flow switch (electricity savings.
• Allows heater to be isolated in case of heater leak or need to treat pool water but no want to run that water thru the heater.

Up to you - a heater bypass is not required.

 

[P00LNerd]

Running the water thru the heater will require more pump rpm, which equals more electricity used.
Two pluses of a heater bypass

• Allows a lower pump rpm to satisfy the SWG flow switch (electricity savings.
• Allows heater to be isolated in case of heater leak or need to treat pool water but no want to run that water thru the heater.

Up to you - a heater bypass is not required.

Thanks! I’ll take a look at the plumbing, see how practical it’ll be to do it quick and easy. My anticipation is it may be easiest to just rig up without it for now, and then plan to cut that in over winter, when there’s no time pressure.

 

[proavia]

It's just an extra 30 minutes to do it now.
Just plan aheaad and get more fittings than you think you will need. You can always return the extras.

Or wait until winter and then have to find all the fittings and drag all the tools out again.

 

[P00LNerd]

Sitting here waiting for my SWG to arrive, thought I might get a quick start on planning the plumbing. Something I hadn't mentioned before is that, because the ports of my heater are lower than what's needed for inline plumbing of Jandy valves, I had to tilt the entire run of plumbing up at a bit of an angle. Since the Frog was in a U-bend, and the union out to the returns was set even higher, there was no issue, I was able to work out all the angles by simply clocking the associated H- and U-pipes in the old rig. In other words, it all looks flat and plumb in the photo above, but it's actually all sloped up from heater to elbows at the Frog, then run from Frog to second Jandy is level. Bypass tee is cocked down, and first Jandy cocked up, to make all the odd angles work.



Hence the mention of plumbing in a heater bypass taking a bit of time as nothing is plumb or square, and the run into the heater is too close to the pavement to fit a Jandy valve there.

Anyone got a detail drawing of the SWCG, or even a 3D model? I could throw it into SolidWorks, and get the rest of what I need planned and ordered. Otherwise, I'm stuck waiting for the system to arrive, before I can really nail down the new layout.



Also interested in seeing what folks have done to sleeve or conduit their wiring. We've had enough cords eaten by wildlife around here, that I suspect that will be the demise of this system, if the cords aren't at least sleeved in some tough loom. We live in an area with larger properties and a lot of small wildlife, at least some of which occasionally chew on my Christmas lights extension cords.

 

[P00LNerd]

On heights, I think I'm just going to lift the whole heater up, if I'm re-plumbing it anyway. The thickness of an outdoor floor mat (eg. rubber Welcome mat) is about perfect to get enough height to set the new bypass and check valves plumbed in level and square. No more screwy angles, other than angling up a bit from salt cell to last Jandy 3-way at the returns union.

 

[PoolStored]

Find something solid to mount the heater on, don't use rubber mats. Thin pavers can work...needs to be a solid base.

 

[P00LNerd]

Find something solid to mount the heater on, don't use rubber mats. Thin pavers can work...needs to be a solid base.

It's on a concrete pad, and anchored down to that. My thinking was to just lift it up 1/4" to 3/8" with a rubber mat between heater and concrete, and just re-punch the anchors thru that into the concrete. Think that's a problem? No way for it to dance around, as it's anchored, and a thin rubber mat shouldn't cause it to slip around more than plastic on concrete.

I really only need about 3/16" of additional height, to make the Jandy valves clear the concrete pad, so the rubber mat doesn't need to be very thick. Jandy 3-ways and check valves are both roughly 2-1/16" from port centerline to bottom of housing, but the heater ports are centered only 1-7/8" above the heater base. Everything would be infinitely easier, if I could just lift that heater up 1/4", and hard rubber seems ideal, offering both anti-skid and anti-vibe between the heater and existing concrete pad.

 

[P00LNerd]

Maybe a stupid question, but I've seen people here mention scrubbing the salt around on the bottom of the pool after adding. I guess it would make it dissolve a little quicker, but doesn't the risk of scratching a liner with rock salt outweigh any benefit of having it dissolve a little quicker? Seems to me, safest route is to just dump a little in at a time, and let the pool circulation dissolve it.

 

[PoolStored]

You will not scratch the liner. You don't want it sitting on the liner. Brush away!