SWG and other questions

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proavia said:
If you CYA is really 140, the first order of business is to lower the CYA to 70. Only draining/refilling - half you pool volume - will lower the CYA to 70. After the refill, balance the water and retest the salt level.
Click to expand...

Since my pool has a 12 year old vinyl liner I am trying to manage it with a SWG until its time for a liner change. Even if I wanted to change the liner now, that is going to be impossible and will take months based on family members experience, especially this time of the year. Hopefully by stopping the addition of CYA and CYA breaking down, it will get down to more managable numbers.

Allen, thank you, I will look into the chemical methods of determining the gallons, most likely I will get it as close as possible and then adjust based on pool math. I am going to take more detailed measurements and enter them into a grecian pool calculator I found.

Regarding the heater, yesterday I left it running and forgot to turn it off and when I checked it it said "No Demand - Water temp 120F". The heater and pool equipment is higher than the pool. Based on your info I wonder if the pressure switch is working properly, if it was, I would think it would cut off as soon as the pump stops pushing water, instead it appears to be heating the water left in the heater to the maximum/over the set temp and then shutting off? Or would it just prevent it from cycling back on with no flow? I may need to do more research on my exact model to determine if No Demand means the water has met the temp or it means the pressure switch has shut it off. I will check the pressure switch if i can find it with a multimeter as you suggested. I guess I could also watch the unit after the pump turns off and see if it starts up the heater without water flowing.... although it might take a while for the water to cool off inside it from 120F down to the cut out point.

I dont think the heater could be getting a cool down since the pump is cutting off and the heater doesnt know it, I dont see how the heater could know the pump is 5 minutes to shut down when just using a dumb timer that cuts the power, so I am going to assume this requires an automation system.

I will try to get some liquid chlorine to keep the FC around 8, can I use regular bleach in the pool with chloromax? I know I was told not to use clorox beacuse of the additives in the hot tub, but I assume its less of a problem in the pool? I will see if home depot has any pool chlorine when I am there today.

I will try the vitamin C paste on the stains, thanks.

Thanks as always.


Oh and BTW, my piping is 1.5in not 2in so I think I will need to get some reducer bushings for the SWG.
 
swimspaguyy11 said:
I dont think the heater could be getting a cool down since the pump is cutting off and the heater doesnt know it, I dont see how the heater could know the pump is 5 minutes to shut down when just using a dumb timer that cuts the power, so I am going to assume this requires an automation system.
Click to expand...

The Intermatic T101 or 104 timers can have an optional 156T4042A Heater Control Switch Kit that will open the fireman's switch on the heater 20 minutes before the timer, usually controlling the filter pump, will shut off. The heater control will prevent the heater from operating EXCEPT when the Time Switch contacts are closed (automatically or manually).

Models that have the 24-Hour Mechanical Time Switch in Enclosure with Pool Heater Protection are:
  • T101P201 - 120V SPST plastic enclosure with Pool Heater Protection
  • T101R201 - 120V SPST metal enclosure with Pool Heater Protection
  • T104P201 - 240V DPST plastic enclosure with Pool Heater Protection
  • T104R201 - 240V DPST metal enclosure with Pool Heater Protection

The 156T4042A Heater Control Switch Kit can be added to any existing T101 or T104 timer.

swimspaguyy11 said:
I will try to get some liquid chlorine to keep the FC around 8, can I use regular bleach in the pool with chloromax? I know I was told not to use clorox beacuse of the additives in the hot tub, but I assume its less of a problem in the pool? I will see if home depot has any pool chlorine when I am there today.
Click to expand...

No, you should not use bleach that contains Chloromax in your pool. Chloromax are polymers that will create foaming.

Look for liquid pool shock in Walmart, HD, or your local pool stores.

Liquid Chlorine - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
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ajw22 said:
The IOntermatic T101 or 104 timers can have an optional 156T4042A Heater Control Switch Kit that will open the fireman's switch on the heater 20 minutes before the timer, usually controlling the filter pump, will shut off. The heater control will prevent the heater from operating EXCEPT when the Time Switch contacts are closed (automatically or manually).

Models that have the 24-Hour Mechanical Time Switch in Enclosure with Pool Heater Protection are:
  • T101P201 - 120V SPST plastic enclosure with Pool Heater Protection
  • T101R201 - 120V SPST metal enclosure with Pool Heater Protection
  • T104P201 - 240V DPST plastic enclosure with Pool Heater Protection
  • T104R201 - 240V DPST metal enclosure with Pool Heater Protection

The 156T4042A Heater Control Switch Kit can be added to any existing T101 or T104 timer.
Click to expand...


Interesting, I will check those options out. I may not be able to simply add it because I am not sure the heater has its own set of conductors running from the garage where the timer is. I will check though. I could mimic the same thing with home assistant with a couple of zwave relays possibly as well, which might be a good option if the heater doesnt have its own conductors run.

Will stay away from clorox, thanks. I will stick to the pool shock for now.

I forgot to post the picture of my motor plate you asked for, here it is, I am not sure how helpful it is though as it appears it could operate either or. I should have time to get my multi meter out there tomorrow though.

1652731800253.png
 
I have been giving more thought on how to plumb in the SWG and I have a small issue to deal with. The chlorinator is plumbed in using threaded PVC elbows so I cant simply slip fit anything. I was going to try to get some male pvc nipples perhaps and make it work with that combined maybe with some unions? Maybe I am over thinking things....

I also had an idea for an alternative position and just leave the chlorinator, shown in the second picture. The issue is that pipe is basically laying on the ground so I wont be able to ever run the SWG cell inverted but if I end up getting a variable speed pump I would imagine this plumbing will be redone anyways (or I can dig out the ground a little to invert it). I could then put the flow sensor after the drain so the cell wont activate if the drain is open. I believe in that configuration there is no way water can flow through the valve but not the cell, so it should meet the requirements./ Def would be a lot easier to plumb this way, would just need 2 to 1 1/2 reducer bushings I believe (edit: nvm, it comes with everything to connect to 1 1/2 plumbing)

1652732093019.png

1652732379086.png
 
On your second picture... what is that valve with orange handle?

What do you have after that place marked "SWG here"? (I might be looking athe wrong way)
 
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AK- said:
On your second picture... what is that valve with orange handle?

What do you have after that place marked "SWG here"? (I might be looking athe wrong way)
Click to expand...

It's a Drain, not a pool drain but a drain to waste (into the woods). The device before the SWG here is a heater. Actually, thanks for reminding me, that was my other concern that this might be too close to the heater.

I think the drain isnt an issue because if its open, the SWG is still getting water even if the flow sensor still gets enough flow to activate the SWG, and then i am just dumping the chlorine into the woods, either open or closed, the SWG is still getting water through it.

Here is a better picture with more labels and showing the path of the water better:

There are a lot more angles of the equipment here: SWG and other questions

1652736144179.png
 
I think I can make it work where the chlorinator is with the vertical kit, that might be the best/easiest option because I found a male threaded union:

(EDIT: nvm, this is socket on both ends, but i know i saw one that was slip to male socket)

I put one of those on the female side (other side slip), and a female threaded union on the other side. then just glue in the bushing and connect the vertical kit in this location. that solves any concern about the drain valve and too close to the heater output concerns and doesnt require any cutting to boot.





1652794743555.png
 
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My SWG comes today, wish me luck. So far I've added 200lbs of salt, going to test later today to see what it brought me up to before adding more. I will be attempting the vertical install where the chlorinator is.

While waiting for the SWG I was trying to work on other stuff and found 2 things...

1) My pool light doesnt work. I confirmed I have 120v going into the transformer and 12V AC coming out so I would imagine the problem is the bulb. I am going to bet its a halogen bulb since its from the late 90s. I am going to pull the light today if I can get it without going in the pool (water is still in the 50s) and see what kind of light/bulb I have and hopefully I can replace with one of the new LED bulbs I saw online.

2) I have 1 skimmer and 1 "drain". I guess its not really a drain because its on the side wall only about a foot below the skimmer, I assume its to prevent the pump from burning out if the skimmer gets clogged, which happened yesterday from a storm. However, when I put my hand over it (besides hurting like heck) the skimmer works so much better. Instead of stuff mostly floating by, it actually goes in the skimmer. It got me thinking if I could cut down the intake/drain so its restricted a bit and get better performance from my skimmer? It has a threaded end but nothing in it. I dont know if it was always just a threaded port or if there used to be a fitting in it and its been lost to the years. Picture is below.

1652882831235.png
 
Pool light bulb... 2 options
www.feit.com

300-Watt Equivalent R40 12V Pool & Spa LED Bulb - Feit Electric

Make your pool stylish and secure with Feit Electric R40/2150/865/LED-12 energy efficient LED pool and spa light. The 12-volt R40 bulb puts out a
www.feit.com www.feit.com

Post a pic of the interior of the skimmer with the basket removed.
Also post a pic of the under side of the skimmer lid - with the numbers on it.
I'm wondering if that skimmer has a diverter valve that isn't set correctly.
 

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proavia said:
Pool light bulb... 2 options
www.feit.com

300-Watt Equivalent R40 12V Pool & Spa LED Bulb - Feit Electric

Make your pool stylish and secure with Feit Electric R40/2150/865/LED-12 energy efficient LED pool and spa light. The 12-volt R40 bulb puts out a
www.feit.com www.feit.com

Post a pic of the interior of the skimmer with the basket removed.
Also post a pic of the under side of the skimmer lid - with the numbers on it.
I'm wondering if that skimmer has a diverter valve that isn't set correctly.
Click to expand...

Here are the pictures:

1653141424711.png

1653141467761.png
 
Based on the internal skimmer pic...
  • There are 2 ports inside the skimmer, one is plugged - the open port runs to your equipmemt pad.
  • The port in the side of the pool below the skimmer is probably a vac port and is plumbed back to the equipment pad. As it is threaded, it is missing its safety cover.
On the suction side of the pump I see 2 pipes with a shutoff valve between them. What happens if you close that valve? My guess is there will no longer be suction to the port in the pool and skimmer suction will increase.

The threaded port should have a safety cover installed - even if the valve at the equipment pad is off - similar to this...
 
proavia said:
Based on the internal skimmer pic...
  • There are 2 ports inside the skimmer, one is plugged - the open port runs to your equipmemt pad.
  • The port in the side of the pool below the skimmer is probably a vac port and is plumbed back to the equipment pad. As it is threaded, it is missing its safety cover.
On the suction side of the pump I see 2 pipes with a shutoff valve between them. What happens if you close that valve? My guess is there will no longer be suction to the port in the pool and skimmer suction will increase.

The threaded port should have a safety cover installed - even if the valve at the equipment pad is off - similar to this...
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I thought as well, so I closed that valve and it shut off THE SKIMMER! EDIT: I should add that the pvc was re-plumbed a few years ago, so its possible they put the valve back on the wrong side? Or perhaps it was a selector valve before and they changed it?

The only thing I can come up with is since this is a single skimmer pool, with lots of tree debris falling in it, it's there to prevent the motor from burning out if the skimmer gets clogged? The skimmer has gotten pretty clogged during a storm once before. Even more reason why it baffles me why a 18x36 pool in high tree debris area was built with only 1 skimmer.
 
Maybe they reversed the plumbing.
In any case, get a safety cover installed on the in-pool port ASAP. Being wide open, it is an entrapment hazard.
 
The water flow may get reduced if the skimmer is full. Check it more often.

How are you vacuuming the pool? Manually or with a suction side cleaner?
 
proavia said:
The water flow may get reduced if the skimmer is full. Check it more often.

How are you vacuuming the pool? Manually or with a suction side cleaner?
Click to expand...

I've been checking the basket every day and sometimes that still isnt enough. When there is a storm so much Crud ends up in the skimmer that it gets clogged. Once i am living at the new house full time I will be able to check it multiple times a day. I think once tree pollen season calms down it will get easier to maintain. Does the pump have some kind of protection mecahnism if the skimmer does happen to get clogged nearly completely? It won't burn out?

Right now I am just using the old aquabot turbo-t i bought from the previous owner, but I just got a s-200 equiv from Marina Pool and Spa that I am about to start using.

I havent manually vaccumed yet because I am missing the vaccum plate that goes in the skimmer, I guess the previous owner was taking out the basket to connect the hose directly to the skimmer intake since she had everything to vacuum except the plate. TBH I think she only used the robot.

I'm not very familar with the suction side cleaners, never used one in my pool growing up, always did it manually by putting the plate over the skimmer basket.
 
That same in-pool port can be used with a manual vacuum - no skimmer vac plate needed. If there is a lot of debris to vacuum out, it would be best to have an in-line leaf catcher similar to a Hayward W530 to keep the large debris contained and out of the pump basket.

Debris load will drop dramatically once pollen season drops off. A major tree trimming may be in your near future also.

The pump does not have a mechanism to shut it off if there is no water flow. If a storm is comomg, shutting the pump off during the storm will help. Your new robot will come in handy after a storm.
 
proavia said:
That same in-pool port can be used with a manual vacuum - no skimmer vac plate needed. If there is a lot of debris to vacuum out, it would be best to have an in-line leaf catcher similar to a Hayward W530 to keep the large debris contained and out of the pump basket.

Debris load will drop dramatically once pollen season drops off. A major tree trimming may be in your near future also.

The pump does not have a mechanism to shut it off if there is no water flow. If a storm is comomg, shutting the pump off during the storm will help. Your new robot will come in handy after a storm.
Click to expand...


Thank you, I had never considered the in pool port being used with the manual vacuum because I was taught as a kid to always vacuum into the skimmer basket so it doesnt clog up the pump basket. I thought that was the only correct way to vacuum tbh.

I am going to get the cover for that port ASAP, closing that up is going to make a huge difference to the performance of the skimmer. I can't believe the pool company who did the opening didnt say anything and just left it, although that is not surprising considering how bad they turned out to be. I still have to deal with these people for the closing unfortunately because I already paid.

Also, I forgot to thank you on the bulb recommendations, I ordered the Feit LED bulb, hopefully will be in Monday and fingers crossed that fixes the issue.

Going back to the salt conversion......

I've put in 10 x 40lbs bags of Morton Pool salt and I am up to 3000ppm. I dumped in one more 40lb bag before I left yesterday, so I should be around 3200ppm when I check later today would be my guess, and if that is the case I will dump in 1 more bag to get me near 3500. I'm going to be attempting the install of the SWG this weekend.

With all the research I was doing on YT it has been recommending me a lot of videos on YT about SWGs and I watched some videos by a guy named Steve IIRC and he kind of scared me a little...... He was talking about galvanic corrosion and the importance of a properly bonded pool installation to avoid major issues. He also mentioned the need for some kind of modification done to the heater and I believe a check valve to prevent destryoing the heater and some kind of protection for the light.

It has me concerned because I have no idea if my pool was properly bonded, I do have a bare copper wire coming out of the ground near the pump that was connected to NOTHING, but i assumed it should be connected to the bonding lug on the pump so I put it there. It doesnt appear the heater is bonded, although there is a see-through component attached coming out of the heater which appears to be a check valve or some kind of filter. No idea if my light and stairs are properly bonded, should I check the steps with a contitunity tester perhaps? I dont know if its possible to test the light since i currently have it removed for the bulb change.

Thanks
 

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