Sunday project: wiring help needed for replacing intermatic timer

[crackers8199]

Sunday project: replacing my old intermatic timer that controls the SWG with a sonoff R2 so I can do it from my phone and have a better control over the schedule (I'm also in the process of researching ripping it all out and going to a nixie standalone, but this is step one because the R2 is easy to come by and the raspberry pi is not).

it seems the pump is also wired in with the intermatic timer. I think I know how to wire the R2 for just the SWG on and off, but how do I handle the extra pump wiring here?

 

[1poolman1]

Sunday project: replacing my old intermatic timer that controls the SWG with a sonoff R2 so I can do it from my phone and have a better control over the schedule (I'm also in the process of researching ripping it all out and going to a nixie standalone, but this is step one because the R2 is easy to come by and the raspberry pi is not).

it seems the pump is also wired in with the intermatic timer. I think I know how to wire the R2 for just the SWG on and off, but how do I handle the extra pump wiring here?
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Can't tell where the wires on 1 and 3 are from or go to. Which wires come from the GFCI breaker? Looks like constant power to the Intelliflow and switched power to something else (2 & 4).
Is that the timer for the SWG, do wires on 2 and 4 go to that?

 

[crackers8199]

Can't tell where the wires on 1 and 3 are from or go to. Which wires come from the GFCI breaker? Looks like constant power to the Intelliflow and switched power to something else (2 & 4).
Is that the timer for the SWG, do wires on 2 and 4 go to that?

the pump has constant power, the only thing the switch on the timer controls is the SWG.

I'll go out and try to trace the wires as soon as I finish eating lunch.

 

[crackers8199]

Can't tell where the wires on 1 and 3 are from or go to. Which wires come from the GFCI breaker? Looks like constant power to the Intelliflow and switched power to something else (2 & 4).
Is that the timer for the SWG, do wires on 2 and 4 go to that?

2 & 4 go to the SWG.
red on 1 and blue on 3 go to the breaker.
blue on 1 and red on 3 go to the pump.
the two other red and blue wires from the breaker go directly to the heater.

i think (correct me if i'm wrong here) that i'm going to have to create two new pigtails to feed the sonoff. one each for terminals 1 and 3, and use those two pigtails to feed the sonoff, with the wires from 2 and 4 on the output side. is that right?

 

[crackers8199]

now that i'm looking at this, i don't know if it's going to work either way. the sonoff as far as i can see will only accept at most 14 gauge wire...

 

[Ahultin]

think (correct me if i'm wrong here) that i'm going to have to create two new pigtails to feed the sonoff.

Correct

the sonoff as far as i can see will only accept at most 14 gauge wire..

It should take 12g solid, I've used it in the mini 1

 

[crackers8199]

does the wire order matter? do I need to make sure 1 goes opposite 3 and 2 opposite 4 when wiring the sonoff?

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

does the wire order matter? do I need to make sure 1 goes opposite 3 and 2 opposite 4 when wiring the sonoff?

No, it doesn't matter. As long as 1 and 3 are on input side and 2 and 4 are on output side, you're fine.

 

[crackers8199]

done.

one minor problem though...when the box is closed, the wifi signal is blocked. the switch goes offline as soon as I latch it.

putting a wifi access point right on the other side of the wall in the kitchen to see if that solves the problem (hopefully). if not, I'm not sure what the solution is...

 

[Ahultin]

if not, I'm not sure what the solution is...

Relatively easy fix - you've got some empty knock-outs in the bottom of the enclosure.
6" ridgid nipple
Weather tite conduit hub
2 gang threaded pvc box
2 gang pvc weatherproof cover.
Run you wire thru the nipple and put the sonoff on the pvc enclosure
By using the rigid nipple you can hang it unsupported below your intermatic box

perfect.

1 comment on the install - either get some red electrical tape and tape the white wire or replace the white with red. Someone down the road could confuse that with a neutral and do some damage.

 

[crackers8199]

1 comment on the install - either get some red electrical tape and tape the white wire or replace the white with red. Someone down the road could confuse that with a neutral and do some damage.

yeah, i was thinking that wasn't the best color after i brought it home. i figured it shouldn't be a huge problem because i'm planning to swap all of this out for a new enclosure and rewire it anyway, if i can ever find the raspberry pi in stock before the world ends. for now though, i'll throw some red tape on it.

 

[crackers8199]

Relatively easy fix - you've got some empty knock-outs in the bottom of the enclosure.
6" ridgid nipple
Weather tite conduit hub
2 gang threaded pvc box
2 gang pvc weatherproof cover.
Run you wire thru the nipple and put the sonoff on the pvc enclosure
By using the rigid nipple you can hang it unsupported below your intermatic box

looks like i'm gonna have to go this route. i took one of our APs out and put it literally right on top of the box, and it still wouldn't connect with the door closed.

edit: i take that back. for some reason tasmota was locked onto the AP that is on the other side of the living room rather than the one right on top of it. i set up unifi to only allow it to connect to the AP i have in the kitchen now, and it's working. signal with the door closed isn't great (60%), but it's better than the 0% it was previously.

i'll leave it this way for a few days and see how badly it fluctuates and if it drops off the network at all. this might be my excuse to get an outdoor AP to put at the pad anyway...

 

[crackers8199]

final update on this: went in this afternoon and cleaned up the wiring a bit. ran the wires behind the wires to the breaker on the bottom of the panel so that they're better tucked in initially, and marked the white wire with black electrical tape on both ends (i didn't have any red) to make sure anyone else in there knows it's hot and not neutral. the switch has been working for a week now since i moved the AP to the kitchen, so i think that's a win right now. this will do until my pi comes in and i start putting together the full automation system with njspc.

 

[plnewb]

If (or when) the sonoff dies, could you update this thread please?

I'm unsure if the relay inside the sonoff has proper snubbers inside to handle the inductive kicks from a motor. This means that the relay inside is arcing on every switch off but I would like to learn more

I see that youre using a sonoff R2 to turn a SWG on and off - do these (SWG) have a motor controller inside them or is the sonoff directly turning a 120V ac motor on and off?

 

[Flboy44]

If (or when) the sonoff dies, could you update this thread please?

I'm unsure if the relay inside the sonoff has proper snubbers inside to handle the inductive kicks from a motor. This means that the relay inside is arcing on every switch off but I would like to learn more

I see that youre using a sonoff R2 to turn a SWG on and off - do these (SWG) have a motor controller inside them or is the sonoff directly turning a 120V ac motor on and off?

EDIT: I just realized you weren’t talking directly to me, but what I have is distantly similar. So my experience may be of some help.
5 AM and in the middle of a wonderful bout of insomnia!
…….
A SWG is pretty much a resistive load. If you are asking about the control of the pump, it has its own built in control. It sees power at all times. So far, the Sonoff has worked flawlessly! For installation, because it‘s so small, it didn’t handle stranded wire so well. Simple remedy was to pigtail solid wire to the system.

 

[plnewb]

5 AM and in the middle of a wonderful bout of insomnia!

To the wife's strong disapproval, I have taken on the baton from my late uncle to maintain his pool. The aunt appreciates it and messaged me last night that a dead gopher was sighted at the bottom of a pool that was just cleared by SLAM. It was a deep swampy mess before (unknown to me, my late uncle had stopped taking care of it due to health issues) so everyone was happy and didn't want to risk a relapse

A SWG is pretty much a resistive load

Very interesting - so electronically, a SWG is like a heater? You can turn it on and off without risking the SWG?

 

[hexabc]

To the wife's strong disapproval, I have taken on the baton from my late uncle to maintain his pool. The aunt appreciates it and messaged me last night that a dead gopher was sighted at the bottom of a pool that was just cleared by SLAM. It was a deep swampy mess before (unknown to me, my late uncle had stopped taking care of it due to health issues) so everyone was happy and didn't want to risk a relapse




Very interesting - so electronically, a SWG is like a heater? You can turn it on and off without risking the SWG?

SWCG is a complex device, with a switch mode DC power supply and control electronics. The reason we can turn it on and off by disconnecting AC power is that it has been designed that way, making integration with the pool easier.

 

[plnewb]

SWCG is a complex device, with a switch mode DC power supply and control electronics. The reason we can turn it on and off by disconnecting AC power is that it has been designed that way, making integration with the pool easier.

Hmm, it doesn't feel right. SMPS are not designed to be toggled that way. Also, an SMPS isn't resistive unless it has APFC

It would have been more reasonable to have a little terminal (as simple as a pair of wires or a block with two screws on it) on the SWG that would command it to turn on/off than turning the whole thing on/off but I guess the SWGs on the market lasts decades working the way they do?

 

[ajw22]

Hmm, it doesn't feel right. SMPS are not designed to be toggled that way. Also, an SMPS isn't resistive unless it has APFC

It would have been more reasonable to have a little terminal (as simple as a pair of wires or a block with two screws on it) on the SWG that would command it to turn on/off than turning the whole thing on/off but I guess the SWGs on the market lasts decades working the way they do?

SWGs are basically analog devices in spite of their digital displays.

They power on and off by removing all voltage the way radios, TVs, and stereo systems used to.

 

[plnewb]

I see - are there links I can read that dive into the actual design of a SWG - the modules in it - the components and what each module does?