Suction side air leak

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PoolStored said:
Yep. When the REAL PS-3867 gets here, I will just swap it.
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I can't tell you anything about any of the parts involved here. What I CAN tell you, is this one will work mint until you have a long weekend away and will blow the second you leave the driveway.
 
PoolStored said:
kit 356197 "Seal Set SuperFlo/supermax & VS pumps. Chemical/Salt/Ozone EPDM & SS Seal" Pentair packaging.
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Looks like a Pentair kit.

The most important part is the description of the primary ring, which is not noted on the packaging.

Pentair does not make seals and it is not obvious which exact manufacturer and part number they use for their seal kit, but it is definitely not the PS-3867.

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Soooo, it didn't fix the suction side leak. When I turn the pentair never lube valves, I get a burst of air. I rebuilt those two St*p*d things TWICE with lots of Magic Lube II. Guess I will have to plumb that section without valves, just to see if it eliminates the problem. Yes, I know you say to do the shaft seal again, and I will before I re-plumb. Still Frustrating.

The only thing that changed from last year to this year was the re-plumb. Not sure if I got bad valves, lots of pools with these valves on the suction side.
 
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Well PS'd, you have my sympathy on this one. Your issue has gone all over the place, and the thought of replacing seals (again) must be aggravating to say the least. In the end I know you'll get it. Deep breath and don't break anything expensive along the way. :brickwall:

Weekend is almost here. :cheers:
 
Funny, thanks for being a supporter supporting a supporter. :ROFLMAO:

I was convinced it was the valves, so I bought new unions to re-plumb with no valves. Then @1poolman1 pointed me at the shaft seal, which upon removal, was obviously trash. When unions showed up, I returned them. Now after new shaft seal, I went back and re-ordered the unions. Good Grief!

I now have $1000 riding on the valves as the culprit.
 
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Wow. I feel your pain. I have a similar problem and coincidentally my pool and equipment sound similar, too. Except in my case it _is_ only when the 3-way is in the spa position.

Be suspicious of lid o-rings. Some time ago I bought some that were supposed to fit my Whisperflo, but had a slightly too-small thickness. They allowed air in when the suction-side valve was in spa mode, which increases suction because the spa drains have considerably less flow cross-section than the pool skimmers+drains. When I saw that, I thought I'd found my problem. Alas, no.

I hope you figure it out (and your solution works for me, too)! Good luck!
 
PoolStored said:
Soooo, it didn't fix the suction side leak. When I turn the pentair never lube valves, I get a burst of air. I rebuilt those two St*p*d things TWICE with lots of Magic Lube II. Guess I will have to plumb that section without valves, just to see if it eliminates the problem. Yes, I know you say to do the shaft seal again, and I will before I re-plumb. Still Frustrating.

The only thing that changed from last year to this year was the re-plumb. Not sure if I got bad valves, lots of pools with these valves on the suction side.
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No, you have eliminated the seal from the equation, and it needed to be replaced anyway. It was an often-overlooked place to start. I found that out years ago when I was in a similar situation on a customer's pool and had done everything I could think of until I saw a drip at the seal area, replaced the seal and problem went away.
Lots of lube is not the answer as the excess that you see that is pushed out when you tighten the lid is doing nothing. Just shiny is good.
In your picture the O ring for your pump lid looks a little dry (not shiny, no lube?).
 
Brand new, replaced that o-ring twice this week, always lube before I reattach. I also check the seal seating area on the pump housing for all o-ring locations (cover and drains), made sure they were clean and flat. I went through two sets of o-rings on pump, unions and valves. Same thing.
 

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The Hayward Super Pump that was installed on my pool when we purchased the house two years ago had a suction side leak. I rebuilt it with a cheap kit off of Amazon, the shaft seal replacement is what seemed to fix the issue.
 
IUsedToSail said:
The Hayward Super Pump that was installed on my pool when we purchased the house two years ago had a suction side leak. I rebuilt it with a cheap kit off of Amazon, the shaft seal replacement is what seemed to fix the issue.
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Yeah, didn't fix it for me. Given the issue with first shaft seal I will try again and start pump with water this time.

Is it possible it is the impeller?
 
Some very interesting developments.

1) @Jimrahbe responded to another post, (see below), that air in a VSP is just a thing. Run one of the cycles on the pump to clear the air, and move on. huh.
2) Received the PS-3867 in the mail today. Will take me another day until I can install it. The quality of the ceramic and shaft seal face are WAY more polished than the package I showed and installed earlier.
3) I turned my heater on. I assume that the passages in the heater constrict flow. My normal filter pressure is 2 PSI (Zeolite). When I changed the heater bypass to "heater" to start heating my pool, the pressure jumped to 4 PSI...wait for it...AND the bubble now grows faster. I think this would support Jimrahbe's assertion that it is just a thing.

Or, will the shaft seal really fix it.....oooooooh the mystery!

Intelliflo VSP air at low speeds

All, Any suggestions what to do about air building up when running on low speeds. See below 3100rpms - tiny bubble pea size 2500rpms - quarter size bubble 2000rpms- two quarter size bubbles in the lid pockets 1500rpms - major air, almost to the point where I get nervous there won’t be enough...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
PS,

Seems to me that if the shaft seal is not leaking water out, it won't let air in. That may not be true at all, so we will all wait with bated breath for your test results. :mrgreen:

I know that for me, the bubbles get a little larger as my filter gets dirty. Not a huge amount, but there is difference. The filter getting dirty is like adding a heater in the loop.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jimrahbe said:
I know that for me, the bubbles get a little larger as my filter gets dirty. Not a huge amount, but there is difference. The filter getting dirty is like adding a heater in the loop.
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Think About It GIF by Liverpool FC
 
PoolStored said:
Some very interesting developments.

1) @Jimrahbe responded to another post, (see below), that air in a VSP is just a thing. Run one of the cycles on the pump to clear the air, and move on. huh.
2) Received the PS-3867 in the mail today. Will take me another day until I can install it. The quality of the ceramic and shaft seal face are WAY more polished than the package I showed and installed earlier.
3) I turned my heater on. I assume that the passages in the heater constrict flow. My normal filter pressure is 2 PSI (Zeolite). When I changed the heater bypass to "heater" to start heating my pool, the pressure jumped to 4 PSI...wait for it...AND the bubble now grows faster. I think this would support Jimrahbe's assertion that it is just a thing.

Or, will the shaft seal really fix it.....oooooooh the mystery!

Intelliflo VSP air at low speeds

All, Any suggestions what to do about air building up when running on low speeds. See below 3100rpms - tiny bubble pea size 2500rpms - quarter size bubble 2000rpms- two quarter size bubbles in the lid pockets 1500rpms - major air, almost to the point where I get nervous there won’t be enough...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
Oh...and the unions I ordered, returned and ordered again, also came back today. When I re-plumb the suction side to remove Pentair Never Lubes, will the bubble disappear? (remember, when I open or close them, I get lots of air).

Place your bet Folks, place your bets!!! Will it be valves, shaft seal or "just a thing?" Hurry, hurry, not much time to place your bets...
 
The shaft seal is on the pressure side and will cause water to leak out and not air to get sucked in.

Air can only get sucked in at the seal when the pump is off and above the pool water level.
 
Check the link out where @Jimrahbe talked about letting the pump sit to see if the water level in the pump lowered. I let it go about 36 hours. It did not drop. The bubble didn't change size.

It's all about suction.
 
PoolStored said:
Some very interesting developments.

1) @Jimrahbe responded to another post, (see below), that air in a VSP is just a thing. Run one of the cycles on the pump to clear the air, and move on. huh.
2) Received the PS-3867 in the mail today. Will take me another day until I can install it. The quality of the ceramic and shaft seal face are WAY more polished than the package I showed and installed earlier.
3) I turned my heater on. I assume that the passages in the heater constrict flow. My normal filter pressure is 2 PSI (Zeolite). When I changed the heater bypass to "heater" to start heating my pool, the pressure jumped to 4 PSI...wait for it...AND the bubble now grows faster. I think this would support Jimrahbe's assertion that it is just a thing.

Or, will the shaft seal really fix it.....oooooooh the mystery!

Intelliflo VSP air at low speeds

All, Any suggestions what to do about air building up when running on low speeds. See below 3100rpms - tiny bubble pea size 2500rpms - quarter size bubble 2000rpms- two quarter size bubbles in the lid pockets 1500rpms - major air, almost to the point where I get nervous there won’t be enough...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
My Waterway VSP pump does the same thing. Around 1200 RPMs I start to get a major bubble. The bubble definitely forms more quickly as the internal filter pressure rises and slowly gets closer to needing a backwash. My pump's "custom" run program starts out at a high RPM in the morning for two hours to skim the pool and then bumps down to about 1300 RPMs for most of the day. Every 3-4 hours I have it programed to run at 2850 RPMs for 15 - 30 minutes to "de-bubble" the hopper.
 
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JamesW said:
Try pushing water into the pump from a skimmer. That way the suction is under pressure and a leak will be obvious.

Rig up a garden hose into the skimmer hole with adaptors and push water through the system.

Make sure that the water can flow through the system because city water pressure can be too much for the equipment if the water is blocked

Or, just pressurize the system to about 10 psi to see if the leak becomes obvious.
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Could you please explain how to do this ?
Thanks
 

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