Stumped by SWG

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Following along since I recently converted to SWG and seem to not be getting the chlorine production I was expecting either.

Doesn't help that my stenner set up for LC had a tube failure and caused a cloudy pool (was trying to use up the LC). Pretty sure I am over the algae issue.

Pretty sure all my levels are in check:

pH 7.4
FC 2.6
CC .0
TA 80
CYA 50 (need to test again)
Salt 3600
Water Temp 81°F

Using a Circupool RJ-60+, it at 85% and the pump is on 20 or 22 hour a day. Pretty sure pumps is at a high enough rpm to trip the SWG flow switch. Using 12% LC i would use about 1/2 gallon a day, which is about .6 lbs of chlorine (if I figured this correctly). The RJ-60+ is 3.1 lbs per day. So I should only need to around 23% to get the chlorine production I typically need if it runs 20 hours.
 
Bill1974 said:
(is there a more accurate test than the taylor vial and dot test?)
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No.
When you do the CYA test, try this next time.

Once you have your solution ready, back to the sun, etc. Fill the vial to a line, say 80, lower the vial to your waist level and glance for the dot, you see it, add solution to the 70 line, glance, see it, repeat until you no longer see it with a glance. Then use the CYA value one step above the line you read. So if you stopped at 50, use 60 ppm CYA.

The vial is a non linear scale. So it is not reasonable to interpolate between the lines. Just use the whole numbers, such as 50, 40, 30, ....
 
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I figured out my CYA was all consumed in algae outbreak I had. It was gone or low when I opened the pool (first year using a safety cover, so much easier close and open, pool a little dirtier, but not much). Was pretty sure everything was good before I got the SWG up and running. Surprised that 3 or 4 days with little or no chlorine, that algae managed to flourish and consume the CYA. Maybe it's the type of algae, never seen it happen when it has turned green, this algae just made the water a white/grey and cloudy.

Still getting the CYA to the appropriate level without going to high, was about 40 yesterday before adding more dry stabilizer. How well does Pool Math calculate the amount required? I haven't had to mess with the CYA level too often, but I seems to only need half to maybe 3/5 of what it recommends. Pool Math recommended 16 lbs to go from 0 to 60, I added about 5 lbs and that got me to about 40. Later yesterday added 3-4 lbs more to see where that gets me.
 
This thread has gotten a bit hijacked.

My original post was about my SWG that seems to be underperforming. Two separate OCLTs reveal no excessive chlorine usage.

I've come to the conclusion that this Excel SWG sucks.

Under normal circumstances, the "60K Gallon" cell is now running at 22 volts and 5.2 amps. I am going to put my own DC supply on it and run the voltage up to enough to draw eight amps. What can go wrong? :)
 
Sorry about that.

I don't know enough about salts cells to know what changing the voltage to get more amps could do.

Do you get the same results using either of the salt cells (I think I saw a post that stated you have a 40K and 60K cell)? Is the controller the same for either cell? Are there settings to change? Is there any way to check to see if it actually running at the duty cycle that it is claiming? Maybe the power supply is actually only running at a much lower duty cycle. Power the salt system with a power metering device like this Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor or Smart Plug w/ Energy Monitoring to see if the power usages is as expected.

Have you contacted the mfg and have they provided any guidance? Can you return it and go with another brand?

I haven't done much research on what changes in voltage and amperage to expect as the cell gets dirty (or needs cleaning) or is wearing out.
 
Turnip - i had a similar experience with my first swg (circupool). I complained loudly and intelligently enough to get a full refund which I put towards a Hayward swg which cost a princely sum but has exceeded expectations.

My experience probably should not reflect all that poorly on circupool as theres many here who love that brand. But I definitely got one that just didn’t produce and never found out what was wrong with it.

SWG ratings

Hi all - I installed an SWG (Circupool Universal 55) this year and am finding I have to run it a bit longer than I was expecting. Through May and June I usually go through no more than 2ppm FC daily. This year with the SWG if I am doing the math correctly, I’ve been going through 3-4ppm...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
Bill1974 said:
Is the controller the same for either cell? Are there settings to change? Is there any way to check to see if it actually running at the duty cycle that it is claiming? Maybe the power supply is actually only running at a much lower duty cycle. Power the salt system with a power metering device like this Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor or Smart Plug w/ Energy Monitoring to see if the power usages is as expected.
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The controller provides DC power and to the cell. It seems that it's designed to adjust voltage to maintain a constant current (amperage)

Yes, I've fully vetted that the controller is working properly. I connected my own logging meter to the cell and can see that proper (by design of the manufacturer) voltage and current is arriving at the cell at all times. I am certain that the controller is doing what its supposed to do.
 
I have a Circupool RJ+60, the controller has a setting for the different models of cells connected to it. I would assume there is something monitored differently or applies current and/or voltage differently or looks for different feedback from the cell as it's working.

I assume there is some feedback logic within the controller that it would use to determine an unsafe condition and/or when the cell is not performing as it should. I understand the electrolysis concept, but I don't know the technical workings of applying voltage and current to coated plates in a saline solution to produce chlorine gas, what to expect for voltages and currents with different water temperatures, salinity, plate condition etc. I am probably missing something, but if everything is working as it should, then the cell should be making chlorine. Is it possible it's not seeing something correctly in the feedback correctly? is the temperature and salinity reading correctly? If it's not making chlorine where is the power going? Is there a bonding or grounding issue (this is a stretch and wild guess, this should also trip the gfci).
 

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Bill1974 said:
I would assume there is something monitored differently or applies current and/or voltage differently or looks for different feedback from the cell as it's working.

If it's not making chlorine where is the power going? Is there a bonding or grounding issue (this is a stretch and wild guess, this should also trip the gfci).
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You're thinking just like me.

Yes, the controller has settings for different cells and my assumption is that it has target amperages for each type.

The only feedback received by the controller from the cell is the water temperature and the electrical resistance through the water. The controller has a piece of wire of a known resistance in series with the cell. The voltage drop across that resistor is how it measures current.

The electrical current definitely passing from one set of plates to the other. The resistance from the plates to the equipotential ground is substantially higher. Very little current would take that path.

My only other variable is that there is something wrong with the plates in the cell. What are these plates made of? What are they coated with? If the coating was missing, would chlorine be generated?
 
From a half-hearted/just curiosity search of chlorine production using coated titanium plates it seems to me the coating on the plates is the most significant element in how much chlorine is produced. The use of titanium is because it's pretty corrosion resistant and it's also what the coating will stick to using a cost effective manufacturing process.

I would guess either the coating is damaged or wasn't good for the start and this is what is leading to your low output. I wonder if the coating is thick enough that it can be inspected with a XRF spectrometer? Might be possible to compare a new plate to a used one to see at what point there is not enough of a coating left to be effective.
 
Have you tried cleaning the cell? It sounds like it's pretty new so I don't imagine there is much of a calcium build up. Do you have very hard water? I would imagine harder water would hamper the chlorine production process. But that might be at super high levels.
 
Bill1974 said:
Have you tried cleaning the cell? It sounds like it's pretty new so I don't imagine there is much of a calcium build up. Do you have very hard water? I would imagine harder water would hamper the chlorine production process. But that might be at super high levels.
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I have not cleaned the 60K gallon cell I am working with now. It's very new. I can along the plates and no build-up is evident.
 
Further reading describes the cell plates as titanium with a ruthenium coating and that coating is very important for chlorine production.

My water testing does not indicate a consumption problem. It seems to be a production problem.

Given correct electrical parameters at the cell but no chlorine production, I have to assume that the ruthenium coating is damaged or otherwise missing, resulting in insufficient chlorine production.
 
Turniptruck said:
.Given correct electrical parameters at the cell but no chlorine production, I have to assume that the ruthenium coating is damaged or otherwise missing, resulting in insufficient chlorine production.
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Does the amp draw remain as high as on a properly working cell without the proper ruthenium coating?
 

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