Still happening...plaster completed!

Desert Dog

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2020
272
Alpine, Ca
Hope he is correct too. Here are my thoughts although not an engineer.... That is the top of the raised bond beam so probably not a lot of forces to recon with and probably be ok, although I would prefer the steel in that section to have been shaped in a cradle and embedded in that notch to accept the sheer decent.

How it is, It will be covered with a bed of mortar and then the sheer decent placed into it. Then coping on top of that.
 
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Desert Dog

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2020
272
Alpine, Ca
Sorry,

Was looking at your picks again, are those quarter turn valves behind the wall for the sheer decent? Not sure if I like that. I would like @kimkats or someone to comment on that. The wires I see sticking out, I would agree with Kimkats, those look like bonding wires and will be tied into the grid under your decking later. OK to get wet.
 

Watershow

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
178
Riverside County, CA
Sorry,

Was looking at your picks again, are those quarter turn valves behind the wall for the sheer decent? Not sure if I like that. I would like @kimkats or someone to comment on that. The wires I see sticking out, I would agree with Kimkats, those look like bonding wires and will be tied into the grid under your decking later. OK to get wet.
Thanks. Hope you are safe. We are near the oak glen/Yucaipa fire. Air quality have been off the charts and have gotten ash. What don’t you like about the valves? Thanks for your input.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
47,026
Tallahassee, FL
Those valves are not the top shelf kind. It is very common to use them there. The reasoning is once they get set where you want them they will not need to be turned again. I don't like that idea as what if you DO need to turn them but they have sat there so long in the sun and elements they become brittle and will not turn or break when you do try to turn them. (Yeah I do tend to worry about what what ifs down the road. It has served me well in the past.) Something for you to talk to your PB about.
 

Desert Dog

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2020
272
Alpine, Ca
Same concern about the valving becoming brittle. Hope you have a control valve for it at the equipment and perhaps they did that so they could hold test pressure after the pipes are cut and sheer decent installed.

@ Desert Dog - Hope you are out of harms way out there in Alpine. It looks to be a nasty fire. We are even getting ash from it here in Carlsbad. Stay safe.

Thanks for the well wishes. Fire was straight south of us at 7 miles. Have a real scary night photo of our home with a wall of flames in the background. My neighbor took it and posted to Fox 5 viewer photos. The fire has moved far east into no-man's land but they are saying possible Santa Anna winds which could bring it right back! All good for the time being with a nice cool moist morning. Hoping for the best and praying for all.
 

phonedave

Well-known member
May 30, 2012
741
Montville NJ
It’s rampant in the trades and restaurants. I don’t agree with it, but it is what it is. I work outside. I’m forever stopping at a gas station either to hydrate or de-hydrate. At 11am and the rest of the day there is always an electrician, plumber, Mason, maybe all 3 on line getting tall boys.
I used to work as a soils engineer, and we would contract drillers for soil sampling - think well drilling rigs, but not for water, Auger down a stick, drive a rod with a split spoon sampler, retrieve the sample, wash rinse and repeat. Lots of heavy, turning equipment, with lots of mud everywhere. Lots of opportunity get really hurt.

I had a lead driller that I hadn't worked with before ask if we could break for lunch early at 11:00 - what did I care. We went into this bar and grill nearby and got burgers, except he got a couple of beers too. I told the kid who was his drilling assistant that if he felt uncomfortable and wanted to pull of the job I would back him up with my company. He said it was no big deal, that this was an normal day. Normally I would hang our by the rig to open the spoons and take samples, usually on the door of one of the side tool chests. I had them bring the samples to me at my truck that I parked a good 30' away that day.
 
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phonedave

Well-known member
May 30, 2012
741
Montville NJ
Hope he is correct too. Here are my thoughts although not an engineer.... That is the top of the raised bond beam so probably not a lot of forces to recon with and probably be ok, although I would prefer the steel in that section to have been shaped in a cradle and embedded in that notch to accept the sheer decent.

How it is, It will be covered with a bed of mortar and then the sheer decent placed into it. Then coping on top of that.
Steel in concrete is there to provide tensile strength. Concrete has plenty of compressive strength all by itself (that is what they test when they take samples).

The top of a typical beam is in compression, while the bottom is in tension. Think of bending something to look like a smile. The top is pushed together, while the bottom is stretched out.

I am not a pool builder, but I have made and tested a number of reinforced concrete beams to failure while in college. If the bond beam is loaded from above then the upper layers or rebar are not in tension.
 

mlggator

Bronze Supporter
Jul 18, 2020
93
Carlsbad, CA
I used to work as a soils engineer, and we would contract drillers for soil sampling - think well drilling rigs, but not for water, Auger down a stick, drive a rod with a split spoon sampler, retrieve the sample, wash rinse and repeat. Lots of heavy, turning equipment, with lots of mud everywhere. Lots of opportunity get really hurt.

I had a lead driller that I hadn't worked with before ask if we could break for lunch early at 11:00 - what did I care. We went into this bar and grill nearby and got burgers, except he got a couple of beers too. I told the kid who was his drilling assistant that if he felt uncomfortable and wanted to pull of the job I would back him up with my company. He said it was no big deal, that this was an normal day. Normally I would hang our by the rig to open the spoons and take samples, usually on the door of one of the side tool chests. I had them bring the samples to me at my truck that I parked a good 30' away that day.
As a hydrogeologist, I worked with drillers all the time for water monitoring wells and also for soil samples. If my drillers drank on the job, they were off the job by the afternoon. I know its common practice in a lot of industries to have one here or there on the job. But when running a drill rig, no way. Too easy to really hurt someone with that equipment. That said, I rarely ate with them at lunch and if they had one, I probably didn't know about it.
 

phonedave

Well-known member
May 30, 2012
741
Montville NJ
As a hydrogeologist, I worked with drillers all the time for water monitoring wells and also for soil samples. If my drillers drank on the job, they were off the job by the afternoon. I know its common practice in a lot of industries to have one here or there on the job. But when running a drill rig, no way. Too easy to really hurt someone with that equipment. That said, I rarely ate with them at lunch and if they had one, I probably didn't know about it.
Most of the time we brought our own lunch - you never knew what was around, your vehicles were not readily available, and frankly it is a lot cheaper. Normally I ate lunch while working. The drillers would actually sit down, stop working, and eat. I would go to my truck, work on paperwork, organize sample jars, etc. So, maybe it happened more often than this one time I happened to see it.

I worked with the same driller a few times after that and never saw him drinking again. He had a really nice CME rig with what had to be ever hydraulic option available - slide out racks, automatic jaws, everything. Thing was, something was always breaking. We didn't contract with him too much.
 

Watershow

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2020
178
Riverside County, CA
Most of the time we brought our own lunch - you never knew what was around, your vehicles were not readily available, and frankly it is a lot cheaper. Normally I ate lunch while working. The drillers would actually sit down, stop working, and eat. I would go to my truck, work on paperwork, organize sample jars, etc. So, maybe it happened more often than this one time I happened to see it.

I worked with the same driller a few times after that and never saw him drinking again. He had a really nice CME rig with what had to be ever hydraulic option available - slide out racks, automatic jaws, everything. Thing was, something was always breaking. We didn't contract with him too much.
Hi so you would agree that having the rebar exposed on top of the bond beam is not a good idea?
 

phonedave

Well-known member
May 30, 2012
741
Montville NJ
Hi so you would agree that having the rebar exposed on top of the bond beam is not a good idea?
Again, I don\t (and never did) build pools for a living. But, in a vertically loaded beam, rebar is not even needed in the top - it does not provide any additional strength. If there are horizontal loadings, or torsional loads, then it does help.

It should not be left exposed when all is said and done, Preferably it would not have been exposed at this point, and instead have been bent so that it was in the notch, but the face it is not does not worry me per se, but the fact that it is kind of janky overall would cause me to look at other things more closely.
 
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Girija

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2020
74
San Diego, CA
Hi Watershow! Nice looking cascade wall. What material will you be covering it with? I am pre-dig on a "splash" pool (12 x 28) and will also have a raised wall. Your waterline tile looks good. Choosing tile has been quite the process! And it's still ongoing . . .
Do you have any updated photos? Thanks for sharing!
 

Girija

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2020
74
San Diego, CA
Also, BEAUTIFUL coping! What are the dimensions? Material?
I believe ours will be a pour-in-place to save $$, but I can dream!
If you haven't yet decided on a pool robot, we were told the Hayward Navigator is a good one.