Starting the OB process - Queen Creek

QC Pool Dreams

Active member
Sep 23, 2019
30
Queen Creek, Az
You guys are so awesome! When this pool gets finished you guys will have an open invite to come swim/drink in water any time you are in AZ! lol

I have a mtg to talk with the company we as using as the OB consultant, or whatever you want to call them, tomorrow as this first step hasnt exactly inspired confidence so hopefully we'll get on track soon!

Random question - while AZ doesnt get as cold as many states, it does still get pretty cool in the winter, are there building concerns during the cold weather that we should be planning around? Thinking plumbing, concrete, pebble, etc... hopefully these are things the subs would be aware of and plan accordingly but just so I am educated myself.
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
41,557
Tallahassee, FL
Concrete/pool shell:
"Experts agree that the best temperature to pour concrete is between 50-60 °F. The necessary chemical reactions that set and strengthen concrete slow significantly below 50 °F and are almost non-existent below 40 °F. Even when daytime temperatures are within the satisfactory range, winter concrete setting creates risks."

Plaster:
"All materials and affected areas should remain above 50°F for 24 hours prior to and 72 hours after placement of the pool plaster. If applied in cold weather, the plaster coat may separate and create a hollow space between the plaster coat and the concrete pool wall."

I hope this helps!
 

QC Pool Dreams

Active member
Sep 23, 2019
30
Queen Creek, Az
Finally got our plans finalized after some minor setbacks - thank you all for the feedback thus far! :)

I was wondering - with planning to use a robot cleaner, what should we be adding for electrical and where? I would love to have a storage/connection/cleaning space and was thinking it could work good to put it behind the grotto so it isnt seen but still nearby, but I dont know how much space I am going to need?

We are dealing with a good amount of rain now so the yard is a muddy mess but hopefully we'll be digging before too long!

1575061131506.png
1575061180848.png
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
41,557
Tallahassee, FL
Can you list your equipment please. I tried to read it but some I just can not see well enough. I THINK I see "infloor" under cleaner. I also see where they have a symbol for it also.

Robot storage-There are "rules" for how far the outlet needs to be from water. Please ask about your local codes. I do worry about building anything there as it will only act as a "step" up for someone to get on top of the "no jumping off of" grotto (we all KNOW someone will try it :roll:)

With that in mind......how far is the corner of the wall where the equipment pad is at to the pool? I think that might be the purrfect place for it.

Kim:kim:
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
10,829
Northern NJ
Get the new Pentair IntelliCenter instead of the old Easy Touch automation panel.

Robot requires a GFCI 120V receptacle that needs to be at least 6 feet away from the water. Consider where the cord is going to run from the Robot power center plugged into the receptacle into the water and around the pool powering the robot.
 

QC Pool Dreams

Active member
Sep 23, 2019
30
Queen Creek, Az
Can you list your equipment please. I tried to read it but some I just can not see well enough. I THINK I see "infloor" under cleaner. I also see where they have a symbol for it also.

Robot storage-There are "rules" for how far the outlet needs to be from water. Please ask about your local codes. I do worry about building anything there as it will only act as a "step" up for someone to get on top of the "no jumping off of" grotto (we all KNOW someone will try it :roll:)

With that in mind......how far is the corner of the wall where the equipment pad is at to the pool? I think that might be the purrfect place for it.

Kim:kim:
I should get the full equip list this week, the partial list on the right is a bit off in some places so Ill share the full updated one when I get it. There are infloor labels because that was my original plan before learning more on here :) it should all be all robot/broom, no infloor now good catch! I'll talk with them and make sure that isnt in there for anything at this point. There are no infloor heads labeled so I would guess they just forgot to take it off the equip section once we changed that but thank you for noticing!

I think you are right about the location for the robot, the equipment will be about 10ft away so with @ajw22 saying it needed 6' and then your location, I think that could be the perfect storage as it would be out of site but also close/easy access to the pool!

Get the new Pentair IntelliCenter instead of the old Easy Touch automation panel.

Robot requires a GFCI 120V receptacle that needs to be at least 6 feet away from the water. Consider where the cord is going to run from the Robot power center plugged into the receptacle into the water and around the pool powering the robot.
Thank you for the heads up on the automation panel - like I mentioned I'll share the full list when I get that here soon but that will be one I'll keep my eye out for in order to update it!
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
41,557
Tallahassee, FL
One thing you will have to make sure of is that ALL of the old plans and destroyed! There has been MANY times when a trade was given a old copy of the plans for some reason :shock: How and why that happens who knows BUT you can make sure it does not happen on your build!

Kim:kim:
 

QC Pool Dreams

Active member
Sep 23, 2019
30
Queen Creek, Az
There are a few things already noted in this thread that are missing, or things I know I am going to change but this is the first rev. I dont see the SWG so that needs updated, still deciding on the Intellicenter that was mentioned previously, looking at Glow bright for lighting vs. Intellibrite as we may want the bubbler lights, missing a rain waterfall, etc. so I know it isnt perfect but other feedback on what you do see, like/dislikem etc is all welcome! I am very much in the learning phase so anything folks chime in about I will research and see if it makes sense for us!

With that said, here is the first rev of the equip list:

SKUDescriptionOrdered
011056PENTAIR 3HP 230V INTELLIFLO VSF VARIABLE SPEED/
FLOW PUMP ** $100 mail in rebate available for each pump expires 12-31-19
2​
21063-200-000CMP High Temp Self-Sealing 2" Union Pump Adapter # 21063- 200-000
4​
160301Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP420 Cartridge Filter
1​
08650-2404Pentair Skimmer with Tan Lid and Frame
1​
522167AA Manufacturing Quik Water Leveler Complete
1​
400-9190bWaterway 1" Flush Mounted Return Fitting - White
6​
571444AVSC Single Suction Hydrostatic Relief Channel Drain w/ Pebble Top - White
1​
sg640-2310vcMain Drain AV 8" Frame & Grate - White
2​
004-852-5100-01Paramount ParaJets Pulsating Massage Jet - White #004-852- 5100-01
8​
004-852-1000-00Paramount ParaJets Body w/ Cap
8​
004-852-9600-00Paramount Venturi Parajet Tee 1" - 6 Pack #004-852-9600-00
2​
460934Pentair UltraTemp Heat Pump 143K BTU Almond
1​
99996225-uswMaytronics Dolphin S300i IG Robotic Cleaner
1​
3636-3Concrete Equipment Pad; 36 Inch x 36 Inch x 3 Inch, Gray
1​
2436-3Concrete Equipment Pad; 24 Inch x 36 Inch x 3 Inch, Gray
1​
79206700Pentair 79206700 Pool Gunite Plastic Niche
1​
601012Pentair IntelliBrite 5g Color LED 12V Pool Light with 100' Power Cord # 601012
1​
79206600Pentair 79206600 Spa Gunite Plastic Niche
1​
640132Pentair Light SPA Color 12V 100' 5G Intellibrite
1​
px100Intermatic Transformer 120v/12 or 13v 100w Beige Steel # PX100
1​
520540Pentair EasyTouch 8 System - Pool and Spa Combo 2 Valve Actuators - WITHOUT IntelliChlor # 520540
1​
522104Pentair Screenlogic Interface and Wireless Connection Kit
1​
r171096Pentair In-Line Automatic Chlorinator Feeder Model 320 # R171096
1​
522052A&A Manufacturing Basket Ball Deck Sleeve # 522052
1​
540-6709-beiWaterway Umbrella/Volleyball Holder Assembly - Beige
2​
25577-220-000Custom Molded Products 24" Natural Wonders 1" Lip Waterfall Back Port - White # 25577-220-000
2​
25503-000-000Custom Molded Products 1-1/2" Pool Bubbler - White # 25503- 000-000
2​
vlk15t01AquaStar StarzTruck Safety Vacuum Lock Wall Fitting White #VLK15T01
1​
004-252-8192-01Paramount AIR-PORT Air Solution - White
1​
263056Pentair FullFloXF Three-way CPVC 2-1/2" (3" slip outside) # 263056
1​
263060Pentair FullFloXF Check valve CPVC 2-1/2" (3" slip outside) # 263060
1​
263026Pentair Three-Way CPVC 2 in. (2-1/2 in. slip outside) # 263026
6​
263042Pentair Check Valve CPVC 2 in. (Straight 2-1/2 in. slip outside) # 263042
3​
 

kimkats

Mod Squad
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
41,557
Tallahassee, FL
The one thing that stood out to me is the skimmer being tan but the returns are white. I am guessing why that is but want to make sure.

I am not sure this is needed since you are getting a robot "AquaStar StarzTruck Safety Vacuum Lock Wall Fitting White #VLK15T01"

@Jimrahbe will be able to fine tooth the mechanical part of it. I think I see something he will want to tweak but want to make sure.

Kim:kim:
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
14,655
Bedford, TX
Dreams,

I probably said this before but... I have three pools and they all have EasyTouch systems, salt cells, and IntelliFlo pumps.. They work great, but If I were doing it again today, they would all be IntelliCenter Systems.. The EasyTouch and ScreenLogic will work fine, but the IntelliCenter will work better.

If you are going with Saltwater, you need the EasyTouch or IntelliCenter with built-in SWCG power supply.. So "with SWCG" instead of "Without SWCG"..

I see no reason to have the Variable Flow part of your VSF pumps.. I would go with just a VS pump, like the 011028.. Simple is almost always better.. :mrgreen:

I would go with the CCP 520, only because it is bigger.. The bigger the filter the less often you have to clean it.

Just my thoughts.. I saw nothing in your list that you "must" change..


EDIT.. You have two lights and only one transformer.. It you want to have the lights be different colors, you will need a transformer for each light. This is so you can control the lights independently.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

QC Pool Dreams

Active member
Sep 23, 2019
30
Queen Creek, Az
Dreams,

I probably said this before but... I have three pools and they all have EasyTouch systems, salt cells, and IntelliFlo pumps.. They work great, but If I were doing it again today, they would all be IntelliCenter Systems.. The EasyTouch and ScreenLogic will work fine, but the IntelliCenter will work better.

If you are going with Saltwater, you need the EasyTouch or IntelliCenter with built-in SWCG power supply.. So "with SWCG" instead of "Without SWCG"..

I see no reason to have the Variable Flow part of your VSF pumps.. I would go with just a VS pump, like the 011028.. Simple is almost always better.. :mrgreen:

I would go with the CCP 520, only because it is bigger.. The bigger the filter the less often you have to clean it.

Just my thoughts.. I saw nothing in your list that you "must" change..


EDIT.. You have two lights and only one transformer.. It you want to have the lights be different colors, you will need a transformer for each light. This is so you can control the lights independently.

Thanks,

Jim R.
Thank you @kimkats and @Jimrahbe you guys are both so kind to offer your wisdom!

Kim - the skimmer lid is tan, the inside is still white which should match the returns as far as what is in the pool but I do need to see what options their are for lids, tan fits in the general AZ desert them but doesnt really go with our yard so I'll keep an eye on that. Thank you!

Jim - I have seen your support (and others) for the Intellicenter but as you said both work great and I've seen good reviews with each. Are there specific features that really stand out to you and make you want that newer system more? The difference in cost I was quoted was only ~$250 so we could do either but Im just wondering if we go with the tried and true more mature solution or the embrace the new? Obviously dont want to throw away $250 but if there are things that make it worth it then we can certainly make the case.

We are going with saltwater so I will make sure we get that updated, any specifics I should be asking for? I know I've seen mention of '2x the size of your pool' type references (or maybe that was the heater?) but I still havent figured out where I see that spec/measurement to compare to my pool size?

Any issues heating the spa with electric vs. gas other than time that it takes? One of the electricians we've been talking with said he wasnt sure that a heat pump might not be able to get the spa up to that higher desired temp in the winter but I cant imagine people would have them/recommend them if that was true?

I've added your notes about the cartridge and pump = thank you for that!
 

Jimrahbe

Mod Squad
TFP Expert
LifeTime Supporter
Jul 7, 2014
14,655
Bedford, TX
Dreams,

Here are a couple of reason I would go with the IntelliCenter....

The EasyTouch (ET) has a max of 12 schedules/programs.. The IntelliCenter (IC) has a 100..

The ET has no group functions.. The IC has group functions.. With the IC you can have one button turn one two or more related items.

The ET has a yellow and white letters only screen.. The IC has a color screen that uses letters and icons..

The ET has no ability to have the software updated, except by a Pentair tech. Because of this, it is almost never updated. The IC, like every computer in the world, can be updated via the Internet.

The ET is a "what you buy is what you get" system.. It is built at the factory into a few set configurations. The IC is modular.. You buy the basic system, then add the additional options/modules you want. As an example the ET has a max of 4 valve drivers.. With the IC you start with 4 and then just add them as you need them..

The ET and ScreenLogic will work for 90% of all pool builds... But.. There is just no downside to going with the IC other that a few bucks in cost.

Both the ET and IC use the same basic enclosure, both have the same Load Center where the circuit breakers are mounted, and both use the same relays and layout. The basic difference is the electronics used to run everything. (Still not anything close to today's technology) As a reference, I'd say the ET has 80's tech and the IC has 2001 technology...

Thanks,

Jim R.
 

ajw22

Gold Supporter
TFP Guide
Jul 21, 2013
10,829
Northern NJ
We are going with saltwater so I will make sure we get that updated, any specifics I should be asking for? I know I've seen mention of '2x the size of your pool' type references (or maybe that was the heater?) but I still havent figured out where I see that spec/measurement to compare to my pool size?
Vendor specifications for the amount of chlorine a SWG can generate are based on running that cell 24/7 at 100%. You really do not want to have a cell that must be run at 100% all the time to generate your pools minimum chlorine needs. There are times when you may need more chlorine. So getting a cell at least 2X your pool size gives you some headroom to ensure that your cell can always meet your pools chlorine needs.

At 13,000 gallons a 20K cell could work but a 40K cell would be better.

Any issues heating the spa with electric vs. gas other than time that it takes? One of the electricians we've been talking with said he wasnt sure that a heat pump might not be able to get the spa up to that higher desired temp in the winter but I cant imagine people would have them/recommend them if that was true?
By electric you mean using a Heat Pump?

There is nothing magical about determining the heat rise you will get for a given BTU heater. 1 BTU will raise 1 lb of water 1 degree. Your spa is speced at 1,200 gallons or 10,000 lbs in round numbers. A 120K BTU Heat Pump will raise 10,000 lbs of water 12 degrees an hour. Heat Pump efficiency is at 100% at 80F and drops by about 25% when the temperature is 60 degrees. So on colder nights you may only get 6 - 8 degrees an hour temperature rise from a Heat Pump.

Here is a Heater Run Time and Cost Calculator to do your own calculations.


 

QC Pool Dreams

Active member
Sep 23, 2019
30
Queen Creek, Az
Thank you all! @kimkats @Jimrahbe @ajw22 and anyone else I missed!

So here are the changes I decided to make:
  • Switched to the Intellicenter with the SWCG
  • Upgraded the cartridge to the larger - what are the forums thoughts on cartridge vs. sand?
  • Looking at the pumps still, no changes yet so TBD
  • May downgrade from the robot to a simple vacuum like the "Poolvergnuegen" pool cleaner based on feedback from our future pool maintenance man/friend of mine...we have basically no foliage that would end up in the pool (all new build neighborhood, small yards, no mature plants in neighbors yard and minimal plants total in ours) so we are talking light dirt 90% of the time. We will still have a dedicated 120v near the equipment in the event that we see the need but the hose isnt a big visual turn-off for me vs the robot so going simple for now.
  • Getting manufacture feedback on pump choice, typical use will be extend pool season earlier and later in the season and then hot tub only in the winter but in the event we want to heat the pool in the winter for a special occasion we want to be sure we have the right equip to do it
Excavation is supposed to start Dec 26th weather permitting so hopefully we are on the move soon! I will post pictures of the yard once the ground dries up (to much mud now) and then progress as we go!