Spa Spillover Problem
- Thread starter sthrndream
- Start date
Esloser
0
Did you try cleaning your filter? I notice when my cartridge filter starts to get filthy, the spillover slows way down.
S,
Assuming it was working and now it is not... then the first thing I would look at would be my filter.. What is the filter pressure and when was it last cleaned???
If it has never worked... I have a couple of questions...
Are you trying to run the spillover and the 3 power falls at the same time??
Is the bottom of the spillover stone flat? It should have a 1/4" wide x 1/4" deep grove that is set back from the waterfall edge about 1/4".. This prevents the water from wrapping around the stone and flowing down the wall...
I sure hope you have something other than an Ozone system to sanitize your pool.. If not, your spillover won't be an issue for long...
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
Assuming it was working and now it is not... then the first thing I would look at would be my filter.. What is the filter pressure and when was it last cleaned???
If it has never worked... I have a couple of questions...
Are you trying to run the spillover and the 3 power falls at the same time??
Is the bottom of the spillover stone flat? It should have a 1/4" wide x 1/4" deep grove that is set back from the waterfall edge about 1/4".. This prevents the water from wrapping around the stone and flowing down the wall...
I sure hope you have something other than an Ozone system to sanitize your pool.. If not, your spillover won't be an issue for long...
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
My filter pressure was at 16 with 2750 rpms and then 22 with 3450 rpms. Last cleaned 4 days ago (backwashed). Fountains were not on. They operate on a separate pump Jandy 1.6 hp). The stone seems to be flat, no grooves.
I dont understand your last comment about Ozone system to sanitize the pool. Im an air head right now!
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Filter is clean at the basket and the trap
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It did work initially. The wife wanted both the spillover AND fountains to work at the same time. The pool uilder said I would need an additional pump to run both at the same time. I ended up with a Jandy 1.6 HP to run the fountains. However, the fountains are not running in these pics, just the spa/spillover and VS pump.
The stone is flat as you can see from the pics. There is no groove as you can see in the stone.
I didnt process the comment about the Ozone system, yes we have one. We took our water in last week and it was perfect. We also have a kit from TFP and monitor it weekly.
This does not look right and my pool builder wants his last check. I want it fixed.
I dont understand your last comment about Ozone system to sanitize the pool. Im an air head right now!
- - - Updated - - -
Filter is clean at the basket and the trap
- - - Updated - - -
S,
Assuming it was working and now it is not... then the first thing I would look at would be my filter.. What is the filter pressure and when was it last cleaned???
If it has never worked... I have a couple of questions...
Are you trying to run the spillover and the 3 power falls at the same time??
Is the bottom of the spillover stone flat? It should have a 1/4" wide x 1/4" deep grove that is set back from the waterfall edge about 1/4".. This prevents the water from wrapping around the stone and flowing down the wall...
I sure hope you have something other than an Ozone system to sanitize your pool.. If not, your spillover won't be an issue for long...
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
It did work initially. The wife wanted both the spillover AND fountains to work at the same time. The pool uilder said I would need an additional pump to run both at the same time. I ended up with a Jandy 1.6 HP to run the fountains. However, the fountains are not running in these pics, just the spa/spillover and VS pump.
The stone is flat as you can see from the pics. There is no groove as you can see in the stone.
I didnt process the comment about the Ozone system, yes we have one. We took our water in last week and it was perfect. We also have a kit from TFP and monitor it weekly.
This does not look right and my pool builder wants his last check. I want it fixed.
My filter pressure was at 16 with 2750 rpms and then 22 with 3450 rpms. Last cleaned 4 days ago (backwashed). Fountains were not on. They operate on a separate pump Jandy 1.6 hp). The stone seems to be flat, no grooves.
I dont understand your last comment about Ozone system to sanitize the pool. Im an air head right now!
- - - Updated - - -
Filter is clean at the basket and the trap
- - - Updated - - -
It did work initially. The wife wanted both the spillover AND fountains to work at the same time. The pool uilder said I would need an additional pump to run both at the same time. I ended up with a Jandy 1.6 HP to run the fountains. However, the fountains are not running in these pics, just the spa/spillover and VS pump.
The stone is flat as you can see from the pics. There is no groove as you can see in the stone.
I didnt process the comment about the Ozone system, yes we have one. We took our water in last week and it was perfect. We also have a kit from TFP and monitor it weekly.
This does not look right and my pool builder wants his last check. I want it fixed.
S,
The grove in the stone would be on the bottom, so it could not be seen in the pics...
If it worked before and your filter is clean, then the most likely issue is that you have a valve that is not set correctly.. Logically, it is not flowing well because not enough water is entering your Spa.. The two likely reason for that would be a dirty filter or a valve issue.. It can't be a pump issue or a plumbing issue, because it worked before..
What type of filter do you have?
Are you saying that your pool builder has seen this and seems to think it is ok?
My comment about the Ozone system is that by itself it will not chlorinate your pool water. If you are using the TF-100 test kit, and passing, then you must be getting chlorine from somewhere.. How are you adding chlorine to your pool?
Thanks,
Jim R.
Is the grove visible from the front underside of the waterfall or is it attached to the bottom of the stone and mated with the spa? I am adding chlorine to the water I put two tabs of chlorine in the chlorine filter once every two weeks. He told me over the phone that he thinks there isn't anything he can do. I respectfully disagree. I asked him if the mason can smooth out the bull nose more to make it flow better and he said he would bring his mason out to look at it.
Its funny you mentioned the valves. My hot tub was losing water the last couple of weeks and it seemed to be a stuck valve. They reworked the valves and the hot tub is holding water now. The spillover issue has been going on for a couple of months now.
Of my three sheer descent powerfalls, the middle one is not pumping as much as the outer two and he said there is not anything he can do about that. Im really frustrated, but I am not an engineer and dont have the knowledge other than what is said on here to question him. So frustrating.
I put two tabs of chlorine in the chlorine filter once every two weeks. He told me over the phone that he thinks there isn't anything he can do. I respectfully disagree. I asked him if the mason can smooth out the bull nose more to make it flow better and he said he would bring his mason out to look at it. Its funny you mentioned the valves. My hot tub was losing water the last couple of weeks and it seemed to be a stuck valve. They reworked the valves and the hot tub is holding water now. The spillover issue has been going on for a couple of months now.
Of my three sheer descent powerfalls, the middle one is not pumping as much as the outer two and he said there is not anything he can do about that. Im really frustrated, but I am not an engineer and dont have the knowledge other than what is said on here to question him. So frustrating.
S,
The grove would be at the end of the stone where the water falls into the pool.. You might not be able to see it without getting wet.. You should be able to feel it... It would be on the bottom of the large stone..
Post a couple of pictures of your equipment pad showing the valves in front of the main pump, and the valves that send water back to the pool/spa... Maybe we will be able to see something..
Do you have an automation system or are you manually turning the valves??
Thanks,
Jim R.
The grove would be at the end of the stone where the water falls into the pool.. You might not be able to see it without getting wet..
You should be able to feel it... It would be on the bottom of the large stone..Post a couple of pictures of your equipment pad showing the valves in front of the main pump, and the valves that send water back to the pool/spa... Maybe we will be able to see something..
Do you have an automation system or are you manually turning the valves??
Thanks,
Jim R.
I have an automation system. Here is the photo of my layout. The pump on the far left is for the waterfalls. The next pump over is for the spa, the next one is the VS pump and the pump on the end is for the bullfrog jetpacks. Attached are my waterfalls, notice the middle on is limp. The PB said there is nothing he can do about it. The powerfall on the right constantly stays wet as pictured. He said that is normal.
Attachments
Jim,
Is it accurate to believe it "worked before?" From what has been posted it seems like it never really worked in this configuration (both waterfalls and spillover) and that the plumbing has been redone to accommodate that request and neither have worked properly since. Before, when it was working, it was either the falls or the spill but not both. Then the builder came out and cut that plumbing up to insert the smaller pump just to run the falls while the VS runs the spa/spill. That's what I'm getting from the explanation so please correct anything that's inaccurate.
Did there used to be a valve where the VS pump goes back into the ground that is right next to where the smaller pump's flex line goes down into the ground and you had to switch between either the left pipe or the right pipe in the ground (if that description is making sense...otherwise I have to download your photo to draw a circle on it
)?I don't have the knowledge to explain the plumbing on that pad, but at first blush it seems the waterfall pump is underpowered. This could be verified if you can somehow get the VS temporarily hooked up to that flexible line and run the waterfalls off the stronger pump. I don't have advice on what to do regarding the spillover not working correctly.
S,
Normally, when you have number of water features, like your waterfalls, fed from the same supply pipe, there are adjustment valves right behind each water feature.. This way you can adjust the flow through each water feature so that they all look the same... Are there valves? They are often cheap ball valves as they really only get adjusted once...
Thanks for the pics..
In most automation systems there are three modes...
Pool Mode... Water is sucked from the pool by the pump and pushed through the filter and then back to the pool... (In this mode the spillover is off)
Spa Mode... Water is sucked from the Spa by the pump and pushed through the filter and then back to the Spa... (In this mode the spillover is off)
Spillover mode... Water is sucked from the Pool by the pump and pushed through the filter and then back to the Spa... (In this mode the spillover is on)
A little background.... Without automation the Spa would never get fresh water unless someone when out each day a set the valves to allow for spillover. This of course would not work for most people, so pool builders just misadjust valves to allow some meager amount of water to flow to the Spa all the time...
My question is... Are you actually selecting the Spillover mode on your Automation or does your spillover run anytime your main pump is running??
Thanks,
Jim R.
Normally, when you have number of water features, like your waterfalls, fed from the same supply pipe, there are adjustment valves right behind each water feature.. This way you can adjust the flow through each water feature so that they all look the same... Are there valves? They are often cheap ball valves as they really only get adjusted once...
Thanks for the pics..
In most automation systems there are three modes...
Pool Mode... Water is sucked from the pool by the pump and pushed through the filter and then back to the pool... (In this mode the spillover is off)
Spa Mode... Water is sucked from the Spa by the pump and pushed through the filter and then back to the Spa... (In this mode the spillover is off)
Spillover mode... Water is sucked from the Pool by the pump and pushed through the filter and then back to the Spa... (In this mode the spillover is on)
A little background.... Without automation the Spa would never get fresh water unless someone when out each day a set the valves to allow for spillover. This of course would not work for most people, so pool builders just misadjust valves to allow some meager amount of water to flow to the Spa all the time...
My question is... Are you actually selecting the Spillover mode on your Automation or does your spillover run anytime your main pump is running??
Thanks,
Jim R.
Jim,
Is it accurate to believe it "worked before?" From what has been posted it seems like it never really worked in this configuration (both waterfalls and spillover) and that the plumbing has been redone to accommodate that request and neither have worked properly since. Before, when it was working, it was either the falls or the spill but not both. Then the builder came out and cut that plumbing up to insert the smaller pump just to run the falls while the VS runs the spa/spill. That's what I'm getting from the explanation so please correct anything that's inaccurate.
Did there used to be a valve where the VS pump goes back into the ground that is right next to where the smaller pump's flex line goes down into the ground and you had to switch between either the left pipe or the right pipe in the ground (if that description is making sense...otherwise I have to download your photo to draw a circle on it
I don't have the knowledge to explain the plumbing on that pad, but at first blush it seems the waterfall pump is underpowered. This could be verified if you can somehow get the VS temporarily hooked up to that flexible line and run the waterfalls off the stronger pump. I don't have advice on what to do regarding the spillover not working correctly.
B,
I believe that the little pump on the far left is for spa jets or pressure cleaner... The next pump to the right is for the water fall as its output does not go through the filter...
But I get your point... I have no idea if it ever worked after the modifications... Just going by what the OP said...
Jim R.
Jim,
Now I think we may be getting somewhere.
1. The pool builder told me there are no valves by the powerfalls. Just a t-pipe and thinks due to pressure, the middle one is not getting as much water.
2. On my Jandy remote, when I select spillover ON, pool mode turns ON, Spa mode is off and FILTER PUMP turns on. Spa mode as explained to me, turns on the spa jets and heater only, not spill over. (when we want to get into the hot tub)
3. Spillover runs only when I select spillover.
4. Pool Mode can be turned on without spillover and runs the jets in the pool.
Now I think we may be getting somewhere.
1. The pool builder told me there are no valves by the powerfalls. Just a t-pipe and thinks due to pressure, the middle one is not getting as much water.
2. On my Jandy remote, when I select spillover ON, pool mode turns ON, Spa mode is off and FILTER PUMP turns on. Spa mode as explained to me, turns on the spa jets and heater only, not spill over. (when we want to get into the hot tub)
3. Spillover runs only when I select spillover.
4. Pool Mode can be turned on without spillover and runs the jets in the pool.
You are spot on with te first two paragraphs!
Jim,
Is it accurate to believe it "worked before?" From what has been posted it seems like it never really worked in this configuration (both waterfalls and spillover) and that the plumbing has been redone to accommodate that request and neither have worked properly since. Before, when it was working, it was either the falls or the spill but not both. Then the builder came out and cut that plumbing up to insert the smaller pump just to run the falls while the VS runs the spa/spill. That's what I'm getting from the explanation so please correct anything that's inaccurate.
Did there used to be a valve where the VS pump goes back into the ground that is right next to where the smaller pump's flex line goes down into the ground and you had to switch between either the left pipe or the right pipe in the ground (if that description is making sense...otherwise I have to download your photo to draw a circle on it
I don't have the knowledge to explain the plumbing on that pad, but at first blush it seems the waterfall pump is underpowered. This could be verified if you can somehow get the VS temporarily hooked up to that flexible line and run the waterfalls off the stronger pump. I don't have advice on what to do regarding the spillover not working correctly.
How do I go about this with the pool builder other than saying this doesnt look right? When I could use one or the other---Spillover OR Powerfalls but not both at the same time, it worked correctly. After I spent $1000 for the upgraded pump, these problems arose.
S,
If your original pics were taken with the automation system in the Spillover mode, I would have assumed much more water would be flowing over the spillover gate...
I'm not sure what you need to tell your pool builder except it does not seem right.. You might want to ask him were all the water is going in the spillover mode.
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like your Intake valve (the automated valve in front of your VS pump is not fully open/closed...
If you feel like it... tomorrow when not dark, take a couple more equipment pad picks from different angles when in the Spillover mode..
What HP is your VS pump?
I've had about all the 'fun' I can stand for today...
Thanks,
Jim R.
If your original pics were taken with the automation system in the Spillover mode, I would have assumed much more water would be flowing over the spillover gate...
I'm not sure what you need to tell your pool builder except it does not seem right.. You might want to ask him were all the water is going in the spillover mode.
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like your Intake valve (the automated valve in front of your VS pump is not fully open/closed...
If you feel like it... tomorrow when not dark, take a couple more equipment pad picks from different angles when in the Spillover mode..
What HP is your VS pump?
I've had about all the 'fun' I can stand for today...
Thanks,
Jim R.
If you're willing to take more pictures tomorrow, please label the pumps and circle where the new pump was cut into the plumbing.
S,
If your original pics were taken with the automation system in the Spillover mode, I would have assumed much more water would be flowing over the spillover gate...
I'm not sure what you need to tell your pool builder except it does not seem right.. You might want to ask him were all the water is going in the spillover mode.
I can't tell for sure, but it looks like your Intake valve (the automated valve in front of your VS pump is not fully open/closed...
If you feel like it... tomorrow when not dark, take a couple more equipment pad picks from different angles when in the Spillover mode..
What HP is your VS pump?
I've had about all the 'fun' I can stand for today...
Thanks,
Jim R.
Attached are new pics with spillover on/filter pump on. You can see the position of the valve in front of the chlorine bucket, it turned 180 degrees to the right when I turned on the spillover. The pump that runs the Spillover is a Jandy VS 2.7 hp that has rpm settings for 2750 rpms and 3450 rpms. The original pics on the first post show one with 2750 and the other with 3450.
The second pump from the left turns on the powerfalls. When I turn on the cleaner, only the filter pump and booster pump (1st one on the left) (Jandy VS, 3rd one from the left is on). THe pump on the far right controls the jetpacks and there is a blower behind the 4 inch pipe that activates when I turn on the air blower.
The pump on the far left is a polaris booster pump for the cleaner.
Attachments
S,
I see two things that concern me.. The pipe coming out of what you are calling the "Chlorine bucket", seems to be very small... I can't see how you could possible get a large flow of water through it.
Can you tell us the model or part number or name for this device???
The other thing that bothers me is the position of the Intake valve.. This is the automated valve right in front of the main pump.. It appears to be somewhat open... You would think it would be fully in the Pool Mode position???? In the spillover mode, you want all your intake water coming from the Pool and then going back to the Spa...
Thanks,
Jim R.
I see two things that concern me.. The pipe coming out of what you are calling the "Chlorine bucket", seems to be very small... I can't see how you could possible get a large flow of water through it.
Can you tell us the model or part number or name for this device???
The other thing that bothers me is the position of the Intake valve.. This is the automated valve right in front of the main pump.. It appears to be somewhat open... You would think it would be fully in the Pool Mode position???? In the spillover mode, you want all your intake water coming from the Pool and then going back to the Spa...
Thanks,
Jim R.
Jim,
Well the pool builder never came by, nor the mason that works for him to look at the stone for the spillover. My wife asked the PB today what kind of sheer descent waterfalls are installed and he said CMP. He also texted "To save all some time, a ball valve is not required on these powerfalls. We do these all the time never had one leak." She called CMP and spoke with a CMP technician. He said when installing two or more powerfalls (we have 3), a hydroseal valve is required for each waterfall to balance the waterflow between units. This is verified in the literature. Additionally, she asked the technician about the leaky waterfall on the rocks. He said either there is too much flow or not enough flow to cause that. When she told me that, I texted my pool builder to see him in person. I hope the PB will honor and reinstall the powerfalls, the literature is pretty cut and dry. The contract only says it has to be in working order--they come on, but not evenly. Previously he said he cant do anything about the uneven flow. I hope by him not installing it correctly, I have a leg to stand on.
The pipe coming out of the chlorine bucket is couple to a larger diameter pipe in front of it. The Chlorine feeder is a Hayward Model number CL2002S
Im having trouble understanding your last sentence
Well the pool builder never came by, nor the mason that works for him to look at the stone for the spillover. My wife asked the PB today what kind of sheer descent waterfalls are installed and he said CMP. He also texted "To save all some time, a ball valve is not required on these powerfalls. We do these all the time never had one leak." She called CMP and spoke with a CMP technician. He said when installing two or more powerfalls (we have 3), a hydroseal valve is required for each waterfall to balance the waterflow between units. This is verified in the literature. Additionally, she asked the technician about the leaky waterfall on the rocks. He said either there is too much flow or not enough flow to cause that. When she told me that, I texted my pool builder to see him in person. I hope the PB will honor and reinstall the powerfalls, the literature is pretty cut and dry. The contract only says it has to be in working order--they come on, but not evenly. Previously he said he cant do anything about the uneven flow. I hope by him not installing it correctly, I have a leg to stand on.
The pipe coming out of the chlorine bucket is couple to a larger diameter pipe in front of it. The Chlorine feeder is a Hayward Model number CL2002S
Im having trouble understanding your last sentence
S,
Look at the automated valve that is right in front of your main pump... Is the handle of the valve pointed right down one of the pipes or is it off at an angle... You want your spa input to be completely shut off when in the Spillover mode. In the picture it "appears" that the Spa input is not completely shut off... It could just be the pic, hard for me to tell for sure..
You might also check with CMP and see if they allow their waterfalls to be run without a filter... Most of them don't, as the debris will cause the narrow passages in waterfalls to plug up.
Thanks for the Chlorinator P/N... It appears to be fine... The picture makes the output of the chlorinator look really small, but that is not the case...
Thanks and good luck with your pool builder...
Jim R.
Look at the automated valve that is right in front of your main pump... Is the handle of the valve pointed right down one of the pipes or is it off at an angle... You want your spa input to be completely shut off when in the Spillover mode. In the picture it "appears" that the Spa input is not completely shut off... It could just be the pic, hard for me to tell for sure..
You might also check with CMP and see if they allow their waterfalls to be run without a filter... Most of them don't, as the debris will cause the narrow passages in waterfalls to plug up.
Thanks for the Chlorinator P/N... It appears to be fine... The picture makes the output of the chlorinator look really small, but that is not the case...
Thanks and good luck with your pool builder...
Jim R.
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