So this just happened....

[JoyfulNoise]

You will love it! I got mine with my new in ground pool about a year ago. "Flipper" does an amazing job of keeping our pool clean. Shortly after opening our new pool, maybe a couple of months or so, Flipper died. Did not power up at all. No lights on control would come on. Started a support ticket through the remote control phone app. Maytronics contacted me within hours of the submission. They asked a few questions, and had a replacement control unit (the part that the long cord attaches to) on its way to me that day. Arrived within a few days with a UPS return label for the defective unit. That fixed it and Flipper has not skipped a beat since, and we use the heck out of it. Our pool is heated so we use it year round. Runs several hours almost every day. Little guy looks a little sun faded but he works hard - always! Congrats!

I think you may have missed the last 18 pages of posts where I detail my life with a robot

My robot is dead and so I have decided to go back to my older style suction cleaner. I did not want to pay for expensive repairs or another robot that would only last 5 years. If I can fix my broken robot then I will have the benefit of both types of cleaners. If my robot is truly a goner, then I’ll stick with the suction cleaner for now. Robots may be excellent cleaners but they are designed with a finite lifetime and are very expensive to purchase and repair. Maytronics designs their robots to not be reasonably repairable outside of their limited warranty and so they achieve a captured market willing to pay the high cost of a new robot every 5 years or so … nice business model they have.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

nice business model they have.

Unfortunately pools fall under luxury items and that market space is a whole different level, as I'm sure we all recognize. I 'need' a pool cleaning robot is about one of the bougiest things said.

If comparison to the car market, your suction side cleaner is a nice Chevrolet, possibly a Caddy. The robots are your European cars, with the full range from low end C class Mercedes to a Bugatti Chiron (or whatever the next best supercar is). A hose, a vac head, and a pool pole is a cheap Yugoslavian import, aka 'Yugo'.

--Jeff

 

[setsailsoon]

His name is Douglas … he likes to be called Doug.

Not too smart but loyal and earnest … and easily distracted by SQUIRRELS 🐿

Meet Doug the pool cleaner …

View attachment 402907

That's not all that weird Matt! I'm worried about you... do you want to talk about it?

 

[zea3]

Due to language involved I can't post a direct link, however if you surf on over to your favorite video viewing website and search "Robots" by Flight of the Conchords....

Matt does well to establish friendly relations will all his electronic devices early in the relationship, even the most primitive ones!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I dunno, this looks normal … right??

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 23, 2022

S300i open motor assembly - water incursion

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 23, 2022

More S300i motor internals

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 23, 2022

More S300i pics

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 23, 2022

S300i water pump & electronics - wet

I think I know what killed my robot …

If you look at the water pump motor you can definitely see that the carbon brushes are worn down quite a bit, probably 75% or more. No idea if the shaft leaked as the motor assembly o-ring looks ok. I’ll have to do some more detailed disassembly to see if there’s any obvious signs of a leak through the shaft. The fact that unit still had all that water in it and was able to turn on without shorting out is a good sign. Perhaps I can clean it all up and get it running again. The water pump motor shaft seal may be bad which would be a killer since it doesn’t look like it can be rebuilt at all. It’s definitely the Achilles Heel of their design.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Wowsers! That's crazy!

Amazed with that much moisture, it wasn't shorting. That's impressive.

--Jeff

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Now that I’ve taken some of it apart and seeing all the penetrations and seals in the motor assembly body, I can see why Maytronics recommends that these bots are pulled out of the water when not in use. There are just too many points of failure for water incursion. Honestly speaking, had I looked at this earlier on, I think I would have made it a preventative maintenance routine to pull apart the motor assembly and lube/grease everything. I never once touched the inside of the motor assembly so it’s impressive it went this long before a catastrophic leak happened.

I now HIGHLY RECOMMEND not leaving these things in the pool 24/7 … it’s flirting with failure.

 

[Mdragger88]

Note taken about removal! I hope u can get it going again for little coin

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Note taken about removal! I hope u can get it going again for little coin

It would be nice but I’m not super hopeful. I’ll be pulling apart the water pump motor later today to see if the shaft seal is still functional. I’ll take pictures and make note of the motor spec’s. It would be nice to find replacement electric motors as they are all just simple 24VDC motors, not very expensive really. The trick is finding a vendor that supplies the right ones with the correct form factor and DOESN’T require a minimum purchase of 1000 units to make an order . If I can’t find replacements then I’ll clean up the motors, perhaps redo the connectors and carbon brushes, add lots of dielectric grease, and lube all the o-rings. Maybe that will get it running again. Thankfully the cord connector was still in great condition -

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 23, 2022

Dolphin S300i cord/motor connector

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 23, 2022

S300i motor plug receptacle

 

[kul]

If there was water found inside, wouldn’t that have also happened even if you had removed the robot from the pool each time? Like wouldn’t it just have happened more slowly? Or is your opinion that it wouldn’t have happened at all since taking it out after each session would have let it dry/drain?

 

[tcat]

Going from kreepy to robot 8 years ago was best decision I ever made! I've had an Aquabot Breeze 4wd still going strong. How would you guys compare S200, S300, if you've had any experience with both? Only thing I wish I had was swivel, looks like most have that these days. My grandson starting calling ours "The Monster", so it stuck. Good luck!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If there was water found inside, wouldn’t that have also happened even if you had removed the robot from the pool each time? Like wouldn’t it just have happened more slowly? Or is your opinion that it wouldn’t have happened at all since taking it out after each session would have let it dry/drain?

My opinion is that if you leave these devices in the water all the time, the changes in temperature and pressure over time will eventually loosen up a seal. Taking it out and letting it dry will reduce the chances of water entering the unit. These units are sealed with o-rings and the water pump and drive motors are rotational shafts - there’s only so much you can do to keep them sealed. Keeping the robot out of the water and periodic maintenance of the seals is the only things I can think of that will prolong life.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Death of a (cheap Chinese-made motor) Motor

So I removed the pump motor from the upper housing block to better inspect it and the seals looked good -

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 24, 2022

But then I noticed one big problem, one of the carbon brush wires (red lead) had rotted away from the wire clip (screwdriver is pointing at it) -

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 24, 2022

Because the motor didn't turn smoothly by hand, I decided to take hot apart (just two screws, really simple). And THIS is what it looked like -

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 24, 2022

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 24, 2022

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 24, 2022

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• JoyfulNoise
• Apr 24, 2022

The entire motor case was full of carbon dust. This is not too unexpected as Maytronics has chosen to use cheap, mechanically commutated (carbon brush) DC motors. Perhaps these motors give them the power they need (24VDC, 3.3A, 0.17 N-m torque at 2850 RPM) in the form factor they are looking for but I have to believe that there is just as good of a brushless DC motor out there. Yes, the drive electronics for a brushless motor is a bit more involved but they would operate for WAAAAAY longer than these brushed motors.

The other problem is the bearing. I took the rotor out of the case and the shaft spins smoothly on the front bearing. But when I rotate the rear bear you can fell that it has detente's and a lot of resistance. So even if I clean up this motor and got new brushes for it, I'd have to replace that rear bearing as it is no good. They used a cheap bearing in an environment with carbon brushes creating tons of particulates in a confined and closed space ... ummmmm, that's just dumb.

 

[Newdude]

Planned obsolescence (noun)

a method of stimulating consumer demand by designing products that wear out or become outmoded after limited use.


They know *exactly* what they are doing. And consumer research has shown that we will spend $150+ per year on a pool robot.

 

[moore887]

Hi Matt,

I did skip through the last lot of pages but I got the jist that the s300i is toast?! I have sold a few ECHO M1 cleaners (no programmed run time) to my clients but because they are in short supply, I put an order in for a couple of S200 cleaners. I didn't know there was an S300. What's the difference? I have generally told my client's it's probably better to leave them in the pool than out on the deck but I don't recommended leaving them in the pool full time. I have an ALPHA iq that looks 20 years old from going from the pool to the sun! Do you think you should have got a Polaris instead?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Planned obsolescence (noun)

a method of stimulating consumer demand by designing products that wear out or become outmoded after limited use.


They know *exactly* what they are doing. And consumer research has shown that we will spend $150+ per year on a pool robot.

Oh I get that %. I AM NOT their target audience. They want to sell their product to people that just pay other people to care for their pools and, when something breaks, they just say, “oh well, send me the bill…”.

I am curious by nature, so when things break, I want to know why …

 

[kimkats]

and we are all better off for it!

 

[setsailsoon]

Matt, this is a great investigation you're doing and documenting. I appreciate it much. I can't stand the thought of not being able to get another s200. And I completely agree that motor is very poor choice for that application. I wonder if there is any way to get an alternate motor and replace it before the two-year mark or something like that. Seems like the right motor for that application could easily yield 5 plus year life.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Hi Matt,

I did skip through the last lot of pages but I got the jist that the s300i is toast?! I have sold a few ECHO M1 cleaners (no programmed run time) to my clients but because they are in short supply, I put an order in for a couple of S200 cleaners. I didn't know there was an S300. What's the difference? I have generally told my client's it's probably better to leave them in the pool than out on the deck but I don't recommended leaving them in the pool full time. I have an ALPHA iq that looks 20 years old from going from the pool to the sun! Do you think you should have got a Polaris instead?

Even better, I actually bought an S300i all those years ago!! Typical Maytronics nonsense - take the same robots, change the colors and a few cheap features then Jack up the price 150%. At the time, the S300 and S300i were basically S200’s with a full array of filter panels for the filter baskets, Bluetooth connectivity via an App to get to different cleaning functions and scheduling, and a caddy. Certainly not worth the price increase in my opinion but, at the time, I didn’t know any better. For most pools, an S200 is all the robot anyone needs and, with screened in Florida pools, I really don’t think a robot is worth it at all.

I dislike anything Jandy/Polaris/Zodiac. Of the “big three” pool equipment makers, they are the “most evil”.

I would never say leave it out in the sun. I would suggest you run a robot, pull it out of the pool, clean out the debris, rinse it off, and then store it in a shed or deck box out of the sun. Leaving it submerged all the time is simply asking for trouble. Water, especially water with sun and chlorine, destroys EVERYTHING.

I am now happily running my suction side cleaner. It’s working fine and will do a good enough job. If someone wants a robot, I’m not going to stop them. Just tell them to keep it mind that it probably won’t last more than 5 years and will need to be entirely replaced. As long as a person is ok with spending $700-$800 every 5 years, then that’s the game.

 

[kul]

As long as a person is ok with spending $700-$800 every 5 years, then that’s the game.

Geez Louise. That’s a lot for something disposable. Maybe if there were other cheaper versions. I could see myself spending $400 for a 5 year run, but more than that seems unreasonable. Maybe $500? I don’t know. Though never say never! I secretly want one still and my husband is a fan of “high tech”

Appreciate you delving deep for the greater good. I’m learning a lot from your investigation.