Should I Replace Equipment Myself?

[aerospa]

I've got a major pool/spa remodel on the horizon: new plaster, tile, and coping all over. The equipment also needs to be replaced, and, leveraging what I've learned here, here are my wants for the new equipment:

•Replace (2) existing pumps with (1) variable speed pump
•Install Pentair IntelliCenter automation system
•Install Pentair IC40 salt cell
•Remove and replace (2) pool lights and (1) spa light with 12VDC color LED lights
•Combine spa supply/return
•Install >= 400 sqft cartridge filter
•Remove blower; replace with vent cap
•Remove cinderblock stilts from under heater, set on ground, replumb gas with sediment trap
•Install filter bypass for Spa Mode
•Install heater bypass for Pool Clean mode

I have two quotes asking $14-17k for all that. I think I can source the parts for ~$9k, so then I'm paying $5-8k for the installation. I'd rather use that money for new decking.

So my question: is this project in the realm of a capable DIYer, with PVC plumbing experience and a good working familiarity with pool electrical considerations (NEC-compliant branch circuits, grounding, bonding, GFCI, etc.)? What would you do, and also, how would you amend my equipment plan?

Here's my plumbing plan (salt cell not shown):


Here's my equipment pad as it is today. My number one challenge will be the layout of my equipment and routing of plumbing within the space constraints defined by the walls, plumbing, and the pool (just out of frame to the right):

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You don't need a check valve for the SWG. Most manuals call that out because they are use to old style tab chlorinators that have acidic tablet in them creating a toxic and corrosive stew that can possibly leak back to the heater. With an SWG, there is no chance of water back flowing to the heater.

Also, why do you want to bypass the filter? It's generally not a good idea to run unfiltered water though the heater and SWG.

 

[aerospa]

Also, why do you want to bypass the filter? It's generally not a good idea to run unfiltered water though the heater and SWG.

One of the remodelers recommended it to allow a single pump to power all 7 spa jets. I don't actually have to run the system that way, but it provides a greater guarantee that the jets will be powerful enough by allowing an option to remove head losses due to filtering.

This is only during Spa Jet Mode; at all other times water would go through the filter.

Or am I making this too complicated?

 

[Jimrahbe]

A,

If you have the skills to DIY, then the only reason to hire someone else is for the warranty.

So, it comes down to how much of a risk taker are you?

As an example.. I rebuild the equipment pad at two rent houses. New IntelliFlo pumps, EasyTouch automation with IC40 salt cells. Doing this meant that I only had a 60-day warranty. That was about 7 to 10 years ago, and the original pumps and EasyTouch systems are still there and have not had any failures. Both salt cells have been replaced, but they lasted over 7 years before running out of gas.

My theory is that most equipment either has an infantile failure (within two weeks) or it lasts well beyond any warranty. Most companies offer a warranty as a sales incentive, and not because they suspect that their products might fail.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

A,

I would let the plaster guys replace the pool and spa lights.

Jim R.

 

[aerospa]

My theory is that most equipment either has an infantile failure (within two weeks) or it lasts well beyond any warranty.

Good point. Speaking of, I had put a variable speed motor on my existing pump housing. It lasted for 14 months and then one day the controller refused to power up. I was outside the 1 year warranty so that was no help. The only thing I could find online was that these motor controllers can be sensitive to power line fluctuations and it can be important to install a surge protector (e.g., one that fits into the nearest electrical panel and almost like a circuit breaker). Is that a real consideration, or was my motor's early demise a fluke?

I would let the plaster guys replace the pool and spa lights.

The implication being it's not an easy removal/refitting? If so, thanks for letting me know.

 

[guinness]

Is a single pump going to be sufficient for your spa jets? How does the current setup w/ two pumps work? You're getting rid of your spa blower too? Also note that if you intend to use IntelliValves they protrude quite a bit which can be a challenge for tight spaces.

 

[aerospa]

Is a single pump going to be sufficient for your spa jets? How does the current setup w/ two pumps work? You're getting rid of your spa blower too? Also note that if you intend to use IntelliValves they protrude quite a bit which can be a challenge for tight spaces.

Current setup has two spa drains that each have a 2" line back to the pad, and the lines are tied together near the spa. One drain goes to one pump that immediately returns to 5 jets. The other drain goes to another pump, through filter, heater, and back to 2 jets.

So, 2x2" drains, and 2x2" returns feeding 2 and 5 jets, for a total of 7 jets.

The filter bypass feature was intended to alleviate concerns about a single pump serving 7 jets.

As for the blower, I never turn it on, and the water coming out of my jets is very air-laden. I can hear the air being sucked through the blower when the pump is on. I figured this meant I don't need a blower?

Also thanks for the heads up on the IntelliValve size.

 

[Jimrahbe]

s that a real consideration, or was my motor's early demise a fluke?

I have surge protectors in all three of my pools, but my understanding is they are single use devices that sacrifice themselves to safe all the other devices. If that is true, then they have never been used as they still have a green light.

Plus.. It really depends on where the power surge enters the system. At my house, where everything was installed by the pool builder, my neighbor took a direct lightning strike that took out half of his house and actually blew his gas hot water heater apart. I got what was left over. It took out the main board in the EasyTouch, the salt cell, and ScreenLogic and several things connected to my house network. The IntelliFlo pump was fine. The lightning came in on a communications line and not on the AC line, so the surge device had no effect.

The point is... I am not sure I believe that the pump is as sensitive to power glitches as some have said. It can't hurt to have surge protectors, but it is also not a guarantee that they will save you from everything.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[aerospa]

I have surge protectors in all three of my pools, but my understanding is they are single use devices that sacrifice themselves to safe all the other devices. If that is true, then they have never been used as they still have a green light.

Plus.. It really depends on where the power surge enters the system. At my house, where everything was installed by the pool builder, my neighbor took a direct lightning strike that took out half of his house and actually blew his gas hot water heater apart. I got what was left over. It took out the main board in the EasyTouch, the salt cell, and ScreenLogic and several things connected to my house network. The IntelliFlo pump was fine. The lightning came in on a communications line and not on the AC line, so the surge device had no effect.

The point is... I am not sure I believe that the pump is as sensitive to power glitches as some have said. It can't hurt to have surge protectors, but it is also not a guarantee that they will save you from everything.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Cool, thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Not quite right on the SPD's.

The SPD circuitry is designed to handle both surges and over-voltage conditions. When over-voltage conditions happen, the varistors inside the SPD conduct the power safely to help maintain the proper line voltages. Over-voltages are typically fast-transients that normal analog components would be able to handle but delicate digital components can not. So even though the SPD handles the surge, it doesn't necessarily damage the SPD and cause the green lights to go out.

SPD's are typically rated by how large a surge they can handle before failing as well as the number of smaller surges they can handle at a given rate. Good quality SPD's should be able to handle many, fully rated surges before ultimately failing.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

As for complicating the plumbing, I really wouldn't bother trying to add a bypass to the filter as it is likely to be unnecessary and therefore a waste of money. Large cartridge filters like the Clean & Clean have incredibly low head loss. Given how much you intend to update, I think you are going to have sufficient flow to run the spa jets. You can always add the bypass later if it's really a huge deal.

I would suggest looking at threads where people add a ball valve to the bottom of the filter drain plug so that it is easy to drain the filter away from your deck and pool when it comes time to clean it. The way Pentair has the drain plug on their filters makes it really difficult to work on and most people never use the drain plug as it's such a pain to reach.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Not quite right on the SPD's.

Matt,

Thanks for the course correction...

I was smart enough to use them, just not smart enough to understand how they work..

Jim R.

 

[aerospa]

All right well I spent many tens of hours replacing the pump and filter and replumbing the pad. The pool is getting plastered in a few days so I haven’t had a chance to run water through it and see if all my joints hold. I cringe at the thought of a leak…

Anyways, I’m installing the Intellicenter automation system now, and for the water temperature sensor I would like to place it just after the filter. It makes cable management neater. The instructions say to put the sensor between the pump and the filter. Any issue putting it after the filter?

There’s a diverter between the filter and pump where I can select to drain the pool but I figure temperature doesn’t mean anything at that point, so no loss there.

 

[mknauss]

You can place the sensor after the filter.

 

[aerospa]

You can place the sensor after the filter.

Thanks you!

 

[PoolStored]