*Shallow end, being shocked when grabbing railing*

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NowintersinAZ said:
"call before your dig"
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@NowintersinAZ YOU sir are a genius!!!!!!!!! Call the no cuts, before you dig people either way.

Here's the thing about older buried service neighborhoods...... we *think* they make sense and power runs right along the curb and straight up everyone's driveway. But. There are TONS of yards out there with somebody else's power running through them. *one* neighbor in the back was closer to your transformer that the one in front of their street, and the power Co cut through your side yard before your house was built. *THAT* wire is bleeding to your improperly bonded pool grid. You cut the power and are still live. They kill the neighborhood and it stops.

Call for a full electric markup on your entire property. It's no less of a Longshot than anything else has been. Lol.
 
Instead of disconnecting the bottom neutral, you would need to disconnect the top neutral.

However, it is very close to the live wires, which makes it more dangerous to try to disconnect without touching the live wires.

If the voltage goes away, I think that it would point to current going out on the neutral more than coming in on the neutral.

If it is coming in on the neutral, where is it going to?

It might be coming in or going out.

If current is coming from an underground exposed hot wire, it will travel through the ground until it gets to the house grounding electrode or the bonding grid and then travel through the ground wires back to the main neutral/ground bar and then out the main neutral back to the transformer secondary neutral.

Some current will go through the ground to the transformer secondary neutral grounding electrode, but it will be minor compared to the amount of current going back through the main neutral.

Mike Holt has a video where he drops a live wire in a swimming pool and there is about 10 amps of current going from the live wire to the bonding system to the grounding system and back to the transformer neutral.

The video has been removed or set to private.

Power meter neutral.jpg
 
gamerfan2004 said:
I will create a map of the areas with voltages around the pool and yard.

D,,ruo

My solar does feed back to the grid if it's in excess of what's being used at that moment.
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Start simple, just get a couple points around the pool to see if there is any difference. You may need a resistor across the meter leads to lower the meter impedance to make the voltage differences larger.
 
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JamesW said:
Instead of disconnecting the bottom neutral, you would need to disconnect the top neutral.
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There is no way even a Licensed electrician should play with the top neutral with it being behind the the hots. Not only is it to close but you would have to reach between them and behind them. I have worked a lot of hot wires but not even I would do that.
JamesW said:
Some current will go through the ground to the transformer secondary neutral grounding electrode, but it will be minor compared to the amount of current going back through the main neutral.
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If there is a leak and it's traveling from place to place it all depends on where the leak is. If it's closer to the transformer most will just travel back to the ground rod at the transformer which derives the neutral at the transformer. If it's closer to the house well then it goes there.

Nothing can be determined until we know if it's generated on the property by leak or equipment or coming in on the service feeders.
 
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If you want to measure between the ground rod and the neutral, you would need to disconnect the bonding grid from everything that is also grounded because the bonding grid is essentially equivalent to a grounding electrode.

So, you really have 2 ground rods even though the bonding grid was not intended to be a grounding electrode.

There are many pieces of equipment that are bonded and grounded which would make separating them difficult, but not impossible.

Things like the light niche, pump, automation box or SWG power supply etc are all bonded and grounded which gives any leaked current in the ground a second pathway to get to the neutral.
 
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NowintersinAZ said:
Nothing can be determined until we know if it's generated on the property by leak or equipment or coming in on the service feeders
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+1. But after 22 days of mostly theoretical discussion, Several things were ruled out this weekend. That helped zero in the targets dramatically. If we can’t prove it to the power company in general and / or the neighbors, I’ll have to defer to these 2.

0D89D74D-BCF7-4E44-9559-CBE8141A1B94.jpeg
 
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Thinking about going in or out, if the electric meter is going forward and charging the property it's coming in. If it's running backwards and the property is making money then it's going out.

If the property is making transients they can travel out on the service feeders. If they are made off property they can travel in on the service feeder. Sorry for stating the obvious.
 
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I was thinking about the stray voltage/current coming in on the neutral or going out on the neutral.

Since the neutral doesn't go through the meter, I don't think that it would have any effect on the meter.
 
JamesW said:
I was thinking about the stray voltage/current coming in on the neutral or going out on the neutral.

Since the neutral doesn't go through the meter, I don't think that it would have any effect on the meter.
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Correct, it would not ahve an effect on the meter, but the neutral carries the unbalanced of the hots and will follow them
 
gamerfan2004 said:
The issue: When entering or exiting the pool through the shallow end, and you grab the railing you are feeling like you are being shocked. This is not happening anywhere else in the pool. The deep-end ladder isn't demonstrating this issue.

Info: The pool was built in 2003 and is bonded with a #8 copper wire from the pool motor, over to the four corners of the pool, hand railing anchors in the shallow end, deep end ladder anchors, pool light, and the concrete rebar; it all passed inspection. This issue has never happened until this summer, June 2021.

Testing and isolating: Voltage from the railing to the concrete is about 1.5V and railing to the water is around 1.9V. When we disconnect the ground wire to the house, the voltage drops to .0023V at the railing in the shallow end, and the shock goes away. This is the closest point to the pool motor from where the bonding begins.

We have solar panels on the house. We had them come out to verify that there isn't a voltage leak or grounding issue on their equipment. With all of their equipment unplugged, power off, main breaker to the house turned off, we still had the voltage in the shallow end. Over by the pool motor, we were seeing around 3V on the ground. Absolutely NOTHING was turned on at this moment. All of the solar equipment checked out. The next course of action, check with the power company to see if there's a load issue. They came out, performed a load test, and everything checked out. The house grounding rod is secure and reads 0V. We've taken out breakers, disconnected all of the wires for the pool motor, timer, outdoor outlets, checked the GFCI's. Nothing, absolutely freaking nothing is leading us to the source.

We've never had this problem, but it's only isolated at the railing in the shallow end. I'm planning on removing the railing, cleaning up the bottom section for better contact, then taking a wire brush and running it inside the anchors to see if that helps.

All of the bonding is encased in concrete. However, is there a possibility that the anchor lost its bond? Any insight would be helpful. Thank you!
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So when you say you disconnected the ground wire, you are referring to the main ground coming from the grid? Or the ground going to the equipment, I suspect you have a ground fault either on the grid or your house. Some handy man may have used a ground instead of neutral to complete a circuit somewhere. It’s a possibility that your bond is doing the opposite of what it’s designed to do. There must be a ground tied into the bonding somewhere.
 
Poolbreh said:
So when you say you disconnected the ground wire, you are referring to the main ground coming from the grid? Or the ground going to the equipment, I suspect you have a ground fault either on the grid or your house. Some handy man may have used a ground instead of neutral to complete a circuit somewhere. It’s a possibility that your bond is doing the opposite of what it’s designed to do. There must be a ground tied into the bonding somewhere.
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You can test ground wire and bonding wire for continuity to confirm.
 

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