Second Thoughts - Need You Design Experts!!

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I have to say I am with the wife on the fire pit being close to the house. Could be chancy with any kind of wind. I am also thinking of it being on the left side as it will be further from the grass aka kid's play area. We all know they don't watch where they are going so...........the distance between their play space and the fire the better.

It looks like you are getting it dialed in. I love that she is giving input. Happy wife, happy life! Just ask my husband :slidehalo:

Now lets try this............see the two freeform pools? Lets angle them putting the steps in the bottom left corner and see where the other end ends up. You might be able to put the fire pit in the upper left corner. I am not sure how much space you will end up with there doing this and it might look awful but lets try it and see what it looks like.

Kim:kim:
 
First I just realized, since you guys seem to be equipment pros - is there anything particular I should do or consider having an outside pool with trees nearby (but not directly over) the pool? I assume I'll get leaves in there and it would be amazing if I could just empty a basket instead of having to run around skimming all the time. There are no trees anywhere near the right side so maybe jets on the right pushing towards the hole with the basket in it on the left shallow end? You can see I'm quite the expert with my precise nomenclature ;) Or is that bad because it needs to push towards deep end? Just trying to see if you have any equipment recommendations given the extra load from leaves that will probably get blown in by the wind especially in seasonally.

Kimkats - Glad to know you ladies are sticking up for each other haha that definitely makes sense. Also, I think the reason we went with the firepit on the right instead of the other side is actually for the same logic but different thought process as you mentioned! We figured the stairs and shallow end are on the far left so the likelihood is that kids will congregate to that side so we figured that needs to be the more flexible space. The fire pit is up pretty high in the design and we could always keep at least one chair on the right side of it to prevent any kid from falling in during use. When not in use, she wants me to make a table top to serve as a hangout spot and protect it from rain. If the stairs were flipped we would absolutely keep it in the corner. I WISH the stairs were flipped. I'll certainly ask them but I keep seeing the word "mold" with fiberglass pools which makes me think it's not as simple as flipping the design haha but I don't know. As far as turning the freeform pools, that didn't really work - kind of created a triangle where it was hard to keep a Pergola post from being in the Synergy pool and the Trinidad technically worked but made it harder to place furniture because of the shape of the space available. The fire pit definitely fit but as you get close to the edges, it creates a triangle of unusable space so it actually tightens up the space a bit.
 
Arizonarob said:
On your pergola. Don’t get the retractable cloth kind, as a friend of mine over in West Palm did that, and it lasted 2 years before it was done.
Look for the type that the slats open and close with the push of a button. They can be angled anyway you like, and waterproof when closed. Which will come in very handy during those downpours FL is notoriously know for.
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We haven't come across this type before. Do you have a link? or pictures? Thanks.
 
The placement of the skimmer is based on prevailing wind, not location of leaf source. When you clean up your yard now, do you notice that all the leaves are blown up against one fence or another? One side of the yard or another? That is the side of the pool you put your skimmer. Some pools have two skimmers. Or throw a beach ball out there, does it always end up on one side of the yard? Double check your guess about prevailing wind with one of the weather sites. Some have histories. See which direction your wind is usually blowing throughout the year, but especially in the fall, when the leaves drop. Spring too, if your area gets attacked by fuzzies or during pollen season. Anything that you remember during last year that you were wiping off furniture or raking up off the ground.

As long as we're ordering up renderings, those last two... I'd like to see the deck of #1 under the everything else of #2, with the round pit of #1 in the upper left corner of #2. Maybe even that third, lower left corner matches the other two. That's a more interesting perimeter for the landscaping.

Is there a hole punched in the deck for the tree lower right? I like that. Maybe leave that whole 1/4 circle open for landscaping, which will meet the corner of the house. That'd be a nice tie-in and juxtaposition to the landscaping opposite.
 
NewPoolGuy00 - I also haven't been able to find a link to this type of Pergola. Considering just building my own and using a canvas top or something. Seems like the only challenge is the profile at the end of the 2x6s on top but I bet I could use a jigsaw and do some until I like one and then just trace it on each piece and cut it out.


SKIMMER: Placement of the skimmer is fascinating. I had absolutely no idea! Based on the NRCS, I get only slightly more wind to the North East during the fall/winter (if you can call it that here) which is towards the deep end and the house. In practice, I really don't notice much wind in the backyard because of the 6ft fence around the entire thing and the tall houses.


RENDER ORDERS: Coming right up! I don't mind at all, it has been so helpful to have you guys ask me to draw stuff up. There's already a small tree in that spot which is why it's in some of the renders (maybe 12 feet tall with the canopy starting at 5-6ft) - the renders that show no tree imply I'm having it dug up. I could cut the canopy higher and train it to be out of the way of the walkway probably. Only thing is the Triton being so much smaller, we have a huge open space on the left and upper right - let me know if I did that the way you envisioned it or if I missed something.


EXISTING PATIO AND BBQ: Barbeque is dangerously - I mean safely, inside the screened in porch ;) That's the area below "Door" It's 36x11 feet with two fans, 10ft ceiling, and a lot of screen so we've never had an issue keeping the smoke venting outside. That's also where the second fridge is, ping pong table, and some chairs for hanging out - it's our existing "outdoor space". If you have suggestions about incorporating that better somehow, I'm all ears.

RENDER OF TRITON WITH DECK FROM THE PREVIOUS POSEIDON RENDER (AND A COUPLE MODS):
 
I so get the whys of your firepit location and the steps! Good job! I did not even think of that! Let me ask you this....we know wife wants a fire pit so we will go with it. Does it HAVE to be a built in one? There are some mighty pretty ones out there that can be moved and some come with tops already!

I am really liking this last set up. Wish it was the 40' pool with the steps there. Have you called the pool company to see if they do have a 40' with the steps there?

skimmer location-might not have a chose in that. I don't know if the holes are "built in" or cut on site. That is something else to ask them.

Here is a thread that has the louvered slats. The OP of the thread is very nice and would be willing to answer any questions about his set up. It is a long thread but was so much fun to help with and follow along!

New build in South Texas

Kim:kim:
 
RENDER ORDERS: Coming right up! I don't mind at all, it has been so helpful to have you guys ask me to draw stuff up. There's already a small tree in that spot which is why it's in some of the renders (maybe 12 feet tall with the canopy starting at 5-6ft) - the renders that show no tree imply I'm having it dug up. I could cut the canopy higher and train it to be out of the way of the walkway probably. Only thing is the Triton being so much smaller, we have a huge open space on the left and upper right - let me know if I did that the way you envisioned it or if I missed something.
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Yah, something like that. Nothing wrong with open space. I have two tables on my deck. A large rectangle one where we eat and sit in the shade under a patio cover. And a smaller round table with four chairs that gets good use. Small round table would fit in that lower left area.

I had pictured that lower right planter would be a bigger 1/4 circle, to meet with the line of the master bedroom. Maybe the deck on the left could be farther from the fence to give you some extra landscaping. Maybe the pergola is bigger to the left, and pool slides to the left a bit? Line of deck behind the pool follows the pools long curve?

I mostly wanted to see the round pit tucked into the round corner in back, and the lower left corner as deck instead of lawn...

Have fun with it, move stuff around, see if anything jumps out at you...
 
Trinidad or Poseidon!! Those pools are ideal, IMO. I like the pic of Poseidon upside down as the pergola is out where you need shade instead of just an extension of the screened in porch.

Triton is just too small :(

Maddie :flower:
 
Please let me know if we're not supposed to post pricing or identifying information but I wanted to bring this to you guys (and sent a PM to "Texas Splash" who has the Viking Poseidon): I just got a quote for $60,100 BEFORE ANY decking/coping/lighting and without a screen enclosure or solar heating. All despite being literally 30 minutes from the Zephyrhills plant where they are made and have direct access to the back yard from a cul de sac behind it, have 240 and 120 electrical already run to the side and gas line is also just inside that same side. Does that seem unrealistically high to you guys? After our deck, basic coping, and irrigation fixes the pool would be at least into the mid $70s and probably $80k with a pergola, firepit, and furniture - again with no enclosure or solar heating.




Here's the rest of the breakdown:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Viking Poseidon Base Price: $44,700

Includes:
Choice of gel coat color
Pentair LED Light (1)
Pentair 1.5 HP Pump
Pentair Cartridge Filter – 200sf
Pentair Salt Sanitation
Pentair 3-way Valve Kit
Complete Maintenance Kit

Extra Charges:
Choice of Crystite Finish $1700
Placid Spillover Spa $8500
Easy Touch Automation; Screen Logic $3000
Pentair MasterTemp, 250k BTU $2900
Prowler-920 $1200
Crane Allowance $1000
VSF Pump Upgrade $950

Discounts:
Discount Cyrstite Finish ($1700)
Discount Prowler ($1200)
Discount VSF Pump ($950)


2018 PRICING INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING: Delivery, Pentair 1.5 hp pump, Pentair cartridge filter, Pentair salt sanitation system, Pentair valve kit, and manual cleaning equipment. Complete installation, basic electrical, excavation and hauling (if needed), plumbing, rough grading, cleaning and instruction. Optional features listed above are in addition to included features in this section and removed items in discounts (if any) above are not included in proposal. * Gas line (if any) or connections and gas permits are not included, however can be quoted and contracted by our referred and licensed contractors.
---------------------------------------------------------------


I want to stay here for a long time and am not trying to make my money back on this but homes in my area only sell for about $10k more cause not everyone wants one. Anyway, my point is that for $50k I could sell my house and buy a larger home with a bigger lot where I get a large yard behind an already existing pool/spa and still come out ahead even if there were unforseen neglected pool maintenance expenses to that. I don't want to move and have done a lot to make this home perfect and love the idea of a custom backyard space with a pool that I've maintained from the beginning but it illustrates the point. I'm not trying to break even here but I'm also not thrilled about a one time maybe 12% ROI on an $80k investment. A decade ago, my neighbors paid $30k total for a similar sized gunite pool and spa (18x34 and 7x7) with a tall screen enclosure and an oversized deck with room for a good sized fire pit including all their equipment and the $4k for a retaining wall (unless they're somehow remembering wrong but that still means it can't have been far from that cause they paid cash). Their home recently sold to a nice couple who paid hardly anything more than ours is worth. Wasn't expecting to be anywhere near their $30k price on this project lol but I wasn't expecting to nearly triple it with no screen enclosure and far more favorable construction conditions/access.


Thoughts???
 

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I think you are thinking quite clearly. Pool costs vary dramatically from area to area, but that does seem like a lot for a "prefab" pool.

Real estate varies, too, of course, but I can compare with you: I purchased my house for about $5K more than what a slightly smaller one across the street went for, which didn't have the 30-acre oak forest "backyard" mine does (the view of it, that is). That other house had no pool. The conservative estimate for my pool, extensive decking and landscaping was in the 100K neighborhood. So in essence (whatever the actually cost was), I got all that for free! I've put maybe 20K into the pool (new pump, cleaner, automation, SWG, IntellipH, solar heater and new finish), so in my head, that's what I paid for a "brand new" pool and yard.

If I was to move, now that I am hooked on owning a pool, and now that I know what to look for in a used pool, I would pursue a house with a pool, and put the $50K plus I would save into making the house what I want, before I'd buy a house that I want and add a pool. Because if you think it's going to cost "X" to add a pool, it's probably more like "X+Y." "Y" being $10-30K!

I don't think there is any ROI on a built-in pool.

The only way I'd pay mid-five-figures-plus for a pool, is if I was absolutely 100% sure that I was never going to move, and the house and yard and view were something that I just couldn't find anywhere else.

Don't mean to discourage your pool purchase, at all. You have to decide what's right for you and your family. Just sharing what I now know to be right for me and mine...
 
Yea, I just heard from Texas Splash. His total cost was $38,110 just a few years ago including all equipment and 3ft of flagstone coping and decking and about 8ft on the front side (no spa though). I'm nearly within shouting distance of the factory and somehow they can drive it halfway across the country and install it for well into 5 figures less. I was told I'd save $7k on shipping costs alone (I doubt it's really that much but still). Over the phone, I was told $30k for the basic final cost install with 3ft of deck, maybe mid $30s for the larger models being so close to the factory. Told me to add another $5k to $7k total for the Spa. So I'm over here thinking I could be out of this for around $40k plus deck extensions - I was really hoping to be mid $50s max not mid $70s. It just doesn't feel like a good value regardless of affording it - I guess I'm feeling a big discouraged and frustrated at the moment!

I know exactly what you mean about the real estate. I do like our home and location and we really do plan on staying here. Our neighborhood is a really small gated community where everyone knows everyone. I easily trust each of my 6 neighbors on our cul de sac street with a key (except one but only because they're quiet and just kinda say hey so I just don't know them well). There are kids of all ages who could grow up with our kids and/or babysit them. We love it here and don't want to move. But the reality is it looks like it makes more financial sense to move if we did want a big pool. Should have bought my neighbor's house if we wanted a pool I guess ha!

I think we're going to stay and just do my wife's fire pit in the corner of the back yard :/ My parents still have that pool 2 miles down the road - our kids can always go there if we don't move to another house by then. I already have a large garden tub with a TV mounted to the wall and a nice tub surround for pizza and beer. Maybe it was unnecessary for me to think up all this in the first place, I don't know - mixed emotions right now but it's looking like the numbers just don't make sense for us to do our own thing here. I'll think on it more tonight - we are fortunate to be able to afford it with no payments if we did do it, but it just does not look like a wise value decision. Will be thinking more - let me know if you guys have any thoughts!
 
Hey, my across-the-street neighbors moved next door to me last year. They just waited out my neighbors that finally decided to move, then dragged all their stuff across the street to the better house! Ya never know. I think they did it without realtor fees to boot!

Pools are like boats. A total luxury. The best boat to use? Somebody else's!!

As a grandparent whose pool is used extensively by my g-kids, I am devastated to hear my daughter talk about moving to a house with a pool, though I keep that to myself. Again, not trying to talk you out of a pool, at all, but if you don't get one, I know at least two people are going to be very happy about that decision...
 
Dirk, the kids down the street always have the best toys, even if you have the same ones. Your grandkids will get "bored" of the same old routine of every day, and might even use your pool more than they do now. My mom has a pool, and she put it in mainly for the grandkids. We are finishing ours up, and I anticipate us going out there more than we did previously because our kids will be better swimmers, and they will want the excitement of going to her house.
 
Well, if mine end up with their own pool, I hope you're right! Thanks for the comforting words, in any case. The competition we grandparents endure is relentless! Their parents, their other grandparents (curse them!!), their friends, toys, tv, video games, other video games, still more video games, smart phones, computers... the list is endless. I recently battled back with a few sets of Legos. That might buy me a few weeks!! (BTW, a pool is cheaper per pound than Legos!!!) ;)
 
Dirk said:
As a grandparent whose pool is used extensively by my g-kids, I am devastated to hear my daughter talk about moving to a house with a pool, though I keep that to myself. Again, not trying to talk you out of a pool, at all, but if you don't get one, I know at least two people are going to be very happy about that decision...
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That honestly had a big impact on me.

kimkats said:
Well BOOOO! Sleep on it and see how you feel in the morning! Are you allowed to put up above ground pools in your area?
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We definitely will! No our HOA absolutely wouldn't allow that but it wouldn't be what we would are looking for - the outdoor living space deck combined with easy access in and out of the pool, spa, yard, fire pit, and pergola is what the big appeal is about for us. That's why I didn't want a screen - I wanted to feel like I have a private resort in the backyard! Even just saying those things gets me excited about it though, it just doesn't seem like a good value given such a high cost. I'm still waiting to hear from other quotes but I just can't imagine THAT much variation in cost. I'm not sure if the prices went way up in the past few years or what but these numbers just seem insane - our neighbors $30k pool/spa/pavers/enclosure/wall/equipment is pretty much what we want other than more incorporation into the yard and somehow it's over 2 times that JUST for the pool/spa itself so I don't know what happened.

Dirk may have talked me off the ledge for now with his comment too - wife really related to that and reaffirmed she absolutely will not move even down the road haha she loves this house and our neighborhood.

Definitely let me know if you guys have other ideas/suggestions, we're taking everything in stride and will see how it turns out. If you guys have ways/suggestions to piece together a bunch of lower cost options that still last forever (cause wife says we're getting buried on that grassy part in the back), feel free to let me know. I'm an Engineer and can do almost anything electrical, plumbing, structural and love projects if that would save me a bunch. Just don't know much about pool stuff.

Anyway, it's like being a kid again and being disappointed that your favorite Christmas gift just might not be the wisest thing to do for the family haha so I'm emotionally up and down on it. We're happy here, we don't NEED anything - just seemed like a really cool way to get neighbors, friends, and future kids (none yet) involved in family time close by! I've been so inundated by work and house projects since we bought the house last year that I really haven't settled into the important things as much - soaking in the moments with family! But I do have my parents pool and we barely use it so maybe I should make a point to do that and then wait a year and see how we feel.

Do I seem indecisive? Not at all. I mean maybe a little. Well I'm not really sure. Wait, what's the definition of indecisive again? ;)
 
You're gunna be there forever (though, never say never), and you don't have kids yet and you have access to a pool owned by people who I'm sure feel you don't visit enough as it is. Sounds like you have time to decide. You've got the fever right now, and money burning a hole in your pocket. Slow things down a bit, take your time. Now that you have the house, I'm thinking adding a pool will be the second biggest decision you'll ever make. Doesn't have to go in this year really, does it?

Whatever you do, think twice about listening to some knucklehead named Dirk on an internet site! What kind of name is that, anyway!!
 
Dirk said:
Whatever you do, think twice about listening to some knucklehead named Dirk on an internet site! What kind of name is that, anyway!!
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Yea well you're essentially my pool life mentor at this point Dirk, just embrace it ;)

Those seem like good points. I guess I'm always of the mindset that if I want to do something "one day" that will last a long time, I might as well do it now to enjoy it from the beginning haha so that's what makes it FEEL so time pressured. Plus we're either doing this or using the back left corner for a large fire pit build out for my wife so that would likely eliminate the possibility of a pool at least for a good while since we wouldn't tear it down next year after having put it up this year (she won't do a portable one again).

I do see my family at least once a week, but for being 4 minutes away, we could probably get over there for more spontaneous evening swims and go from there. I think that's the direction we are leaning. I think I need normal life balance too so I can learn to enjoy things as they are in the moment - do you do life mentoring too, or just pool advice? ha!
 
Oh, I can make up advice for just about anything, with equal bravado (plenty) and equal qualifications (none)!! ;)

It sounds to me like you are being very responsible, in life and finances and pool decisions. Nothing to add there. And I'm totally with you on the spend-now-to-enjoy-sooner/longer logic. I use that myself, in spades. The only thing I'd take exception to: you associating "big and fun" with "irresponsible" (even if you were joking, it still entered your mind). Everything in moderation. You're taking care of business, you get to have some fun, too, even big fun. I took care of business, then went crazy big fun in my 40s and 50s. So I'll be working for quite some time to make up for it all (I basically pre-spent some of my retirement). But the big fun I had was not something I could have done later in life, so while I don't particularly like paying the piper now, I wouldn't do it differently.

Life without big fun isn't life, or fun! And you're not blowing money on drugs or gambling or something, you're contemplating building something to enhance the life, and fun, for your family and friends, and that's money well spent, and pretty darn cool.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, the pit. Get one you can move, they make some that are amazing. With the table top. Just what she wants. Put it on a paver deck (on sand). Then move it into its "real home" when the pool and deck get built. No need to have to choose between the two...
 

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