Scale, I need help please

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Nah, don't spend big money or anything. In the farming community, we were always able to get full water analysis (by saying it was for drinking water) done cheap, like $30. Probably subsidized where I've lived and likely different there.
 
Thanks, I think once my TA is down under 100 I will add boric acid. No worries on safety for kids? Inevitably I'm sure they experience small amounts of water in their system. I seen the link from the other thread labeled "are borates safe", but could not really make his or tails of what is safe and what isn't for ingestion. Not that my grandkids drink pool water intentionally, but they are in there every day.


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Boron has little effect on humans and the body is able to handle exposures very well. The 50ppm recommended is well under the limit where issues would arise anyway.

More concern is given to animals ingesting the water because their systems don't have the ability to cope with elevated levels like humans can.

Not that I'm advocating it but I'm currently at 80ppm and I have two dogs the drink the pool water daily and are still alive... They barely meet the requirements of being dogs though... More like hamsters.
 
I have to get my TA down before I can try it.


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I got a email from Hayward today saying they are sending me a new cell to try. I have to admit, even though the first lady I talked to was not very educated on the product, the person that has helped me since has been very good and also quick to reply. At least by changing out the cell I will know if it is a product problem or not. Anyway a thumbs up to Hayward for trying to help.



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I just ordered some granular boric acid from dudadiesel. Just to be clear, my grandkids would have to ingest far more water than normally consumed to cause any harm while swimming? They are old enough to know not to drink it, but while swimming they will naturally ingest some.


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When borating to help stabilize pH you should target 50ppm. Make sure to lower the TA with acid and aeration to your target level BEFORE adding borates. It's much harder to do after.

I can't understand what is happening in your pool. My fill water is very high CH and high TA. Add in the high evaporation rate here in the desert, and I'm currently dealing with a pool with CH levels well above 1200. By closely monitoring my pH and TA levels, and maintaining a negative CSI in the area of -.03 to -.3, I don't have any scale. I do occasionally see some flakes coming out when the SWG is on and I will soon be draining to lower my CH. But at any CH level under 1000, I have always been able to avoid scale by watching and controlling CSI.
 
My TA is down to 110 and my CH is 270-300 depending on my test VS pool store. I get 300 she gets 270. In any case, not too high. I am wondering if I should bump up my CH? It has dropped some due to rain water I think. I do plan on dropping my TA to less than 100 prior to adding Boric Acid granules. How far should I try to drop my TA before adding? Also, what about the CH, should I bump it if it is 300 or slightly lower? With my plaster being new this spring, I will of course have to keep adding MA, so maybe the TA around 100 would be OK since I will be continuing to add acid? Currently it takes ~20 ounces a day to keep PH 7.3 to 7.6 ranges.
 
pooldv said:
I would be inclined to try for something like this
PH 7.6-7.8
TA 60-80
CH 350

What's that do for your CSI with borates?
Click to expand...

Those numbers would give -0.11 CSI
I like that number

- - - Updated - - -

needsajet said:
Reduce TA to 60 before adding borates and yes, you'll need to raise CH a bit to compensate. Trust your own tests and ignore the pool $tore.
Good luck with the next steps :)
Click to expand...

So even though I will have to continue adding MA for the new plaster curing, still reduce TA to 60 ppm? It will be a while before I can get to 60, took me a couple months to get from 300 to 110. I was hoping to get it below 100 then add borates... but I should reduce further? I just thought since I will be adding MA maybe a bit higher TA would be ok at time of adding boric acid? Thanks for any advice on this.
 
I like that number too.

300 TA is crazy! Your TA will continue to drop with acid additions after you add borates. Mine dropped from 70 to 50 this spring with a lot of rain, so less 120 TA fill water, and acid.
 
It seems that in your case, where you want to use borates to see if you can reduce the scale issue, you could go ahead earlier, at the higher TA, but with eyes wide open that TA is going to be harder to reduce after the borates are in.

Normally TA is reduced to make acid additions less frequent and reduce pH rise caused by the SWG. If this was your objective, I would say lower the TA first.

Your call :)
 
needsajet said:
It seems that in your case, where you want to use borates to see if you can reduce the scale issue, you could go ahead earlier, at the higher TA, but with eyes wide open that TA is going to be harder to reduce after the borates are in.

Normally TA is reduced to make acid additions less frequent and reduce pH rise caused by the SWG. If this was your objective, I would say lower the TA first.

Your call :)
Click to expand...

So what do you think while considering I have new plaster? This will cause pH to continue to rise in any case correct, even with a lower TA? With everything considered I should still lower my TA prior? Thx for your help. I will do what is suggested.


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This whole pH rise for one year of curing plaster is a myth. Rapid pH rise will occur for the first 3-4 weeks after the plaster has been applied. It should have reduced significantly after the first week and then again each week following. Please don't get your hopes up that in one year your plaster will have magically reached its happy state and will no longer contribute to your acid demand.

You will have pH issues as long as you own a pool with fill water as high in TA as you have. It's unfortunate and but that's what you have to deal with and it is what it is. Limiting evaporation will be the single biggest benefit for minimizing extreme chemical shifts in your pool.

I'm hoping borates will help with your scaling issue because they will cut the pH rise at the cell in half. What you will likely encounter is the same situation that I'm in, I can lower the pH all want but can't get it to rise fast enough to warrant adding more acid to combat the rise in TA... My fill water has 1/3 the alkalinity as yours. Borates do a great job of buffering the pH but can't do anything to prevent the TA from rising from fill water.

I'd leave your CH and TA where it is now and add the borates. TA can always be lowered where as CH can not. The only thing that would change my mind on this is if you get a large amount of reliable rainfall each and every year. I don't have that privilege so it's a little difficult for me to count on the rain. You'd be the best judge based on previous years.
 

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