Okay, so recently moved from old Hayward 1HP to Intellflo VSF to save about $90/month in electricity as I like to run 24/7. We are on night rate electricity so want to run SWG at night (and pump at higher speed) to generate chlorine. The question I'm having is how to only have the SWG on at night if the pump is on all the time. Everything I read about says running the SWG when the pump runs, but I know you don't want to run the SWG 24/7 (and it won't kick on at the lower flow rates experienced anyway during the day when the pump is running at a lower speed. What do I do about running the SWG? Do I put it on a timer to run at the same time the pump kicks into high gear? If not, then what? Thank You!
Running a pump 24/7 with SWG
- Thread starter MrBobC
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,847
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Pump speed does not affect SWG output. You just have to run your SWG fast enough to open the SWG flow switch. That can be 1200 - 1800 rpm.
Why not run your SWG the entire time your pump is running? Just lower the SWG output %.
Running the SWG at 100% for 8 hours is exactly the same usage of the SWG as 33% output for 24 hours.
Use the tools you have. SWG % run time and pump run time.
Welcome!
Understand that flow switch won't open until a certain GPM (I think it's 20, and I have the VSF so I can set the schedule to be a certain GPM to make sure I know it will kick on/off), so I get that.
Thought the cells were rated for a certain number of hours, so to keep it on (even if it's not producing) would the hours it's on but not producing count towards that lifecycle?
Also follow the logic on 8 hours @ 100% = 24 hours @ 33.33%. Running 24 hours @ 33.33% means running the pump at the higher speed all the time. Since I'm on night rate I want to run it at the higher speed when the electric is lower cost. Last month the supply charge for daytime was 2.25 times the night rate, so it would add up over a month.
Basically then it's okay to have the SWG "on" all the time and then when the pump runs over a certain flow rate (say, 20GPM) it will produce, and then when it drops below that it won't produce, but it's okay that the SWG is "on" (just not producing), and that won't lead to a shorter lifecycle on the cell?
Thought the cells were rated for a certain number of hours, so to keep it on (even if it's not producing) would the hours it's on but not producing count towards that lifecycle?
Also follow the logic on 8 hours @ 100% = 24 hours @ 33.33%. Running 24 hours @ 33.33% means running the pump at the higher speed all the time. Since I'm on night rate I want to run it at the higher speed when the electric is lower cost. Last month the supply charge for daytime was 2.25 times the night rate, so it would add up over a month.
Basically then it's okay to have the SWG "on" all the time and then when the pump runs over a certain flow rate (say, 20GPM) it will produce, and then when it drops below that it won't produce, but it's okay that the SWG is "on" (just not producing), and that won't lead to a shorter lifecycle on the cell?
- May 3, 2014
- 62,768
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The 'life' of a SWCG is only based on the time it is generating chlorine. Does not include the downtime.
The pump rate to close a flow switch varies by make of SWCG and plumbing. You just change your rate until the switch closes and then add 100 rpm to account for your filter getting dirty.
Are you using a Pentair SWCG?
The pump rate to close a flow switch varies by make of SWCG and plumbing. You just change your rate until the switch closes and then add 100 rpm to account for your filter getting dirty.
Are you using a Pentair SWCG?
Bob,
I had the same thought as Allen... It looks like you do not have a heater, which means your SWCG should be able to run a 1200 RPM or so...
The SWCG uses very little electricity so running at night is not saving you anything.
I run 24/7 only because I want my cell running all the time so that my FC level stays relatively stable... If I was not running my SWCG 24/7 there would be zero reason for me to run my pump 24/7...
If you take the SWCG out of the picture, why do you want to run your pump 24/7?
I suspect you still believe in the turnover myth... Something like you have to have two or three turnovers a day... Turnovers are a pool store myth and just not true...
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
I had the same thought as Allen... It looks like you do not have a heater, which means your SWCG should be able to run a 1200 RPM or so...
The SWCG uses very little electricity so running at night is not saving you anything.
I run 24/7 only because I want my cell running all the time so that my FC level stays relatively stable... If I was not running my SWCG 24/7 there would be zero reason for me to run my pump 24/7...
If you take the SWCG out of the picture, why do you want to run your pump 24/7?
I suspect you still believe in the turnover myth... Something like you have to have two or three turnovers a day... Turnovers are a pool store myth and just not true...
Thanks for posting,
Jim R.
- Apr 23, 2017
- 2,400
- Pool Size
- 22000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Totally agree it’s not necessary to run pump 24/7. However, if you choose to the just adjust the SWG output percentage.
Are you using the PoolMath app to track things? It’s super handy!
Are you using the PoolMath app to track things? It’s super handy!
All, thanks for the responses. Yes, it's a Pentair IC60.
No heater. Will likely add solar in the next year or two.
Jim, it's not the electricity for running the cell at night, it's the electricity for running the pump at a higher RPM/GPM. I don't believe in the turnover myth, I guess I just feel better about running it all the time because it makes me think the pool is as crystal clear as possible since the water keeps running through the filter multiple times.
Want to add EasyTouch probably next year based on another thread I started that got some helpful advice from Jim.
Didn't know there was a PoolMath app, just been using the online version on my computer. I'll check it out!
No heater. Will likely add solar in the next year or two.
Jim, it's not the electricity for running the cell at night, it's the electricity for running the pump at a higher RPM/GPM. I don't believe in the turnover myth, I guess I just feel better about running it all the time because it makes me think the pool is as crystal clear as possible since the water keeps running through the filter multiple times.
Want to add EasyTouch probably next year based on another thread I started that got some helpful advice from Jim.
Didn't know there was a PoolMath app, just been using the online version on my computer. I'll check it out!
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,847
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The cell life is only reduced by the hours the cell is producing. The idle hours on, not producing, do not reduce cell life.
What RPM is higher speed for you?
Electrical usage is not linear with pump RPM. Reducing the RPM from 3360 to 1460 can reduce the watts by 85%. You can see some data here IntelliFlo VS recommendations for the best efficiency
Around 1500 rpm should be sufficient to run the SWG. Pump speeds slower then save you minimal electricity.
You don't want to rely on the flow switch to turn off your SWG for safety reasons. This is not an issue of shorter life cycle on the cell. If the flow switch should fail and you have insufficient water flow you can get a buildup of hydrogen gas which can explode.
Bob,
Obviously your pool and your rules..
I am curious at what RPM do you run during the day? 1200 rpm is pretty low and for me anyway it is only 170 watts...
Thanks,
Jim R.
Obviously your pool and your rules..
I am curious at what RPM do you run during the day? 1200 rpm is pretty low and for me anyway it is only 170 watts...
Thanks,
Jim R.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,680
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Something else to consider. See if I can explain this well enough.
Sun and organics consume chlorine. If you produce chlorine only at night, then you have to allow the SWG enough runtime to build up enough chlorine to last the entire next day, when your FC level will be declining from morning to night, all day long, as sun and swimmers use up chlorine, because nothing is replacing the loss during the day. Since your pool won't be using much chlorine at night, this MO is more like manually dosing once a day in the morning. Which is not taking full advantage of one of the best reasons to use an SWG.
If you run the SWG during the day, then the SWG is producing chlorine while it is being consumed (by sun and swimmers), offsetting the loss in real time. That MO will allow you to maintain a much more even FC level throughout the day, and at a slightly lower level because of that. You might find you'll run your SWG (and higher RPM) less that way.
Beside, once you start using a solar heater, that will govern your pump RPMs during the day and then running the SWG during "solar time" will be the most cost effective time period.
Sun and organics consume chlorine. If you produce chlorine only at night, then you have to allow the SWG enough runtime to build up enough chlorine to last the entire next day, when your FC level will be declining from morning to night, all day long, as sun and swimmers use up chlorine, because nothing is replacing the loss during the day. Since your pool won't be using much chlorine at night, this MO is more like manually dosing once a day in the morning. Which is not taking full advantage of one of the best reasons to use an SWG.
If you run the SWG during the day, then the SWG is producing chlorine while it is being consumed (by sun and swimmers), offsetting the loss in real time. That MO will allow you to maintain a much more even FC level throughout the day, and at a slightly lower level because of that. You might find you'll run your SWG (and higher RPM) less that way.
Beside, once you start using a solar heater, that will govern your pump RPMs during the day and then running the SWG during "solar time" will be the most cost effective time period.
If the flow sw fails and the pmp is running, you wouldnt be generating chlorine at all. If the system is operating properly. Thats how its designed to operate
rm,
The problem of course is if the flow switch failed in the closed position and the pump was not running... There is a slight chance that the cell could explode.
Jim R.
The problem of course is if the flow switch failed in the closed position and the pump was not running... There is a slight chance that the cell could explode.
Jim R.
That would not happen IF the system is hooked up properly. Meaning the only time the swg sys gets power is when the pmp is running.
rm,
I think we are saying the same thing.. You should not rely on just the flow switch... you need both the flow switch and having power removed from the SWCG's power supply when the pump is off. This allows for a single failure and you are still protected..
As an example... A timer turns on both the pump and the cell... All is good. The next time the timer turns on the pump and cell, the pump does not come on due to a bad starter cap. The cell still has power but the flow switch prevents the cell from generating chlorine...
Jim R.
I think we are saying the same thing.. You should not rely on just the flow switch... you need both the flow switch and having power removed from the SWCG's power supply when the pump is off. This allows for a single failure and you are still protected..
As an example... A timer turns on both the pump and the cell... All is good. The next time the timer turns on the pump and cell, the pump does not come on due to a bad starter cap. The cell still has power but the flow switch prevents the cell from generating chlorine...
Jim R.
turn over rate a myth!? Any studies to debunk the turnover rate? I sure would like to the county health inspector that on the 40 commercial pools i service.
Frank,
www.troublefreepool.com
Commercial pools have a lot of rules that don't really apply to most residential pools. They have different CYA levels and chlorine limits that do not apply to the pools we have in our backyards.
The myth part is more about people who run their pool just to meet some meaningless turn over number.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Determine Pump Run Time
To figure out how many hours you need to run your pump, you need to know how fast your pump works. You can find this here.
www.troublefreepool.com
Commercial pools have a lot of rules that don't really apply to most residential pools. They have different CYA levels and chlorine limits that do not apply to the pools we have in our backyards.
The myth part is more about people who run their pool just to meet some meaningless turn over number.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Last edited:
- May 3, 2014
- 62,768
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Here is another study - that the TFP article is primarily based on.