Reviving out of service pool: FG & deck Refresh

[Dirk]

More lube will not solve it. If it doesn't do it's job with the right amount, it won't do it better with more. One thing to try: wipe off the excess lube, from ring and track. Put a little on your fingers and thumb, and gently pull the ring through your fingers. I pull, Allen here says only push, so as not to stretch the ring out, but I pull for this reason: you're feeling for any knick or cut or bump or distortion in the ring (you could miss a cut if you push). If you find any, that might be the culprit, and you replace the ring.

 

[dianedebuda]

Is the o-ring new?

Filter is brand new - well, purchased in May, but just installed.

More lube will not solve it. If it doesn't do it's job with the right amount, it won't do it better with more.

As expected, but ran out of ideas.

One thing to try: wipe off the excess lube, from ring and track. Put a little on your fingers and thumb, and gently pull the ring through your fingers. I pull, Allen here says only push, so as not to stretch the ring out, but I pull for this reason: you're feeling for any knick or cut or bump or distortion in the ring (you could miss a cut if you push). If you find any, that might be the culprit, and you replace the ring.

Already did that - x3.

Only other thing that I can think of is inspecting the band again to make sure there are no bends at those 2 points.

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SLAM day 6, Fri 9/11
AM
Clarity still improving.



09:00 FC 9. ; add .9 gal LC [tot LC=25.7 gal]
add 2" water
13:00 FC 9.5 ; add .7 gal LC [tot LC=26.4 gal]
vac-to-waste most of deep end; skipped shallow end
add 4" water
17:00 FC 8. ; add 1.2 gal LC [tot LC=27.6 gal]
19:30 FC 11; add .3 gal [tot LC=27.9 gal]

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Decided on Dolphin S200 robot like a ton of others here. Plan to order tomorrow.

 

[Dirk]

Does the leak appear such that you can identify where it's coming from? In other words, the same exact place, and not just riding around on the clamp and coming out somewhere? If so, and you rotate the ring, and it still comes out in the same place, that lessens the likelihood it's the ring. I'm thinking a crack in the housing, from cranking it down the wrong way that one time. So yah... . I'm at a loss as to how to troubleshoot that.

 

[kimkats]

NICE job!!! Things are sure heading the right way!!

 

[Dirk]

Here's a possibility. By methodically alternating between rotating the ring, and rotating the top, you might be able to deduce if it's the ring, or the bottom housing or the top. Does that make sense? I'm just spitballing some ideas. I don't have any expertise in this. Maybe @JamesW does?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Are you sure there isn’t a valve closed or improperly set causing the filter to over-pressurize? A new filter should not leak from the body unless the sealing surfaces were damaged or the o-ring was damaged. You’ll need to take apart the filter and very carefully inspect the sealing surfaces for defects or damage. Use your fingers and very carefully feel around the track.

 

[dianedebuda]

Does the leak appear such that you can identify where it's coming from?

Seemed always to be at same ring spot, but I wasn't changing ring position vs base/top much.

Here's a possibility. By methodically alternating between rotating the ring, and rotating the top, you might be able to deduce if it's the ring, or the bottom housing or the top. Does that make sense?

Thinking similar thoughts. Will put on my deerstalker hat and play Sherlock tomorrow.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

And did you get the correct multi-port valve? Pentair has two different MPVs, one for a sand filter and the other for DE, they look exactly the same. The only difference is the inlet/outlet ports are opposite.

 

[dianedebuda]

Are you sure there isn’t a valve closed or improperly set causing the filter to over-pressurize? A new filter should not leak from the body unless the sealing surfaces were damaged or the o-ring was damaged. You’ll need to take apart the filter and very carefully inspect the sealing surfaces for defects or damage. Use your fingers and very carefully feel around the track.

Is there a valve besides the top pressure one? My multiport is set to Filter. I start up pump, let air out of filter until water spits then close top valve; see leaks and shut off pump quickly. O-ring & tracks seem smooth.

 

[dianedebuda]

And did you get the correct multi-port valve? Pentair has two different MPVs, one for a sand filter and the other for DE, they look exactly the same. The only difference is the inlet/outlet ports are opposite.

I ordered 261055 which is what is listed in the manual - but haven't verified that's what I've got.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Are you sure it’s actually leaking from the body or is that just water dribbling down from the high-flow air release valve collecting in the band clamp and then dribbling out? What pressure are you seeing on the pressure gauge with the pump on?

 

[dianedebuda]

Are you sure it’s actually leaking from the body or is that just water dribbling down from the high-flow air release valve collecting in the band clamp and then dribbling out? What pressure are you seeing on the pressure gauge with the pump on?

Will check tomorrow more. At one time I'd dried with paper towels after shutting pressure valve and seemed like a true leak but could have missed something. Not really sure about pressure, but don't think it was more than 10. Haven't wanted to run filter very long since there's no DE in it yet.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

If you get water on the band clamp it can sit there for a long time and look like a leak. The band clamp seals against the body pretty well and water can stay trapped in it. Run the pump, make sure you’re getting good flow out of the returns and then inspect the filter body while the system is running. You’re not going to destroy anything by running it for a few minutes with no DE abs I guarantee you are going to be pulling it apart to clean it very shortly after it’s been running. Green/dirty pools and DE filters don’t play nice with one another. A DE filter loads up very quickly when a pool is cloudy/green and requires cleaning frequently. Backwashing typically doesn’t work very efficiently when dealing with a green pool. So just be warned, it’s going to need to be opened and cleaned several times while you rehabilitate there pool water.

 

[dianedebuda]

If you get water on the band clamp it can sit there for a long time and look like a leak. The band clamp seals against the body pretty well and water can stay trapped in it. Run the pump, make sure you’re getting good flow out of the returns and then inspect the filter body while the system is running. You’re not going to destroy anything by running it for a few minutes with no DE abs I guarantee you are going to be pulling it apart to clean it very shortly after it’s been running.

Let's hope I was just being too timid - not a native state for me.

Green/dirty pools and DE filters don’t play nice with one another. A DE filter loads up very quickly when a pool is cloudy/green and requires cleaning frequently. Backwashing typically doesn’t work very efficiently when dealing with a green pool. So just be warned, it’s going to need to be opened and cleaned several times while you rehabilitate there pool water.

Sigh, I know. Previous filter was DE. High hopes this one's going to be easier to clean than the old grid one. Been running the SLAM so far just with recirc for that very reason.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Let as much gunk settle out and Vacuum to waste slowly. The fewer solids in the water better. If it were me, I’d attempt to floc the suspended solids as much as possible before cutting in the filter. But TFP doesn’t recommend flocculants unless you really know what you’re doing. Do flocculation wrong, and the mess gets much, much worse.

 

[Dirk]

Matt, is this a crazy idea? From tracing roof leaks, I know a leak can be in one place, but appear somewhere quite far from that point, if the water has a path to travel (like a roof truss, or in Diane's case a band clamp). Could she use a membrane of some sort, between clamp and housing, to eliminate the travel, and reveal exactly where the leak is? Like heavy toilet paper, or a strip of thin cloth? Or would that compromise the integrity of the clamp to the point of being too risky? If everything was dried off really well before assembling with the membrane in place, and the first sign of the leak is a wet spot on the membrane, that would identify exactly where the leak is, though not if its in the top or bottom of the housing. Repeating that test with the top rotated some amount would then reveal which half has the hairline fracture (which I'm thinking this must be if not the o-ring).

OK, blast away! ?

 

[dianedebuda]

use a membrane of some sort, between clamp and housing, to eliminate the travel, and reveal exactly where the leak is?

Think problem here is that blast of water when closing air pressure valve wets a lot.

A lot of good ideas to try tomorrow. Since pool is progressing nicely with recirc & vac-to-waste, getting filter operational isn't a show stopper at this point. Just frustrating that this was expected to be simple 'cause last filter was DE and shouldn't have been completely new territory. Yeah, famous last words.

 

[Dirk]

Right. You could divert that with a hose and duct tape? I know, I know, when duct tape makes its appearance, you just went from bad idea to worse!!

 

[Dirk]

If too hair brained, it looks like Pentair sells each component. If it gets narrowed down to the ring or a cracked housing, but you can't figure out which, you replace the cheapest part first until you find the broken one. I was sniffing around on Amazon to see how bad that might get, but I don't know the part number. I saw lids from $60 to $170. Then I stumbled on this review of one of the lids:

Had to replace this lid because of improper tightening of the old one. Please read the directions on proper torquing procedures and get yourself a 1 to 1 1/2 Lb dead blow hammer to help prevent damage to the stainless band while seating the gasket.

So I guess it happens... OK, rest your weary. I'll leave ya alone...

 

[dianedebuda]

SLAM day 7, Sat 9/12
AM
Still improving.



09:00 FC 9. ; add .9 gal LC [tot LC=28.8 gal]
add 3" water
vac-to-waste shallow end - no clogs
add 2" water
11:00 FC 9.5 ; add .8 gal LC [tot LC=29.6 gal]
14:00 FC 12.5 ; ok
vac-to-waste most of deep end
17:00 FC 8. ; add 1.2 gal LC [tot LC=30.8 gal]
19:30 FC 8.5; add .3 gal [tot LC=31.8 gal]

5:00 PM shallow end Not quite this blue in real life but ...

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Hubby came out to help when I did the vac-to-waste of the deep end. Sure helped having him man the controls for pump & water (for reprime) when I got hose clogs.

Had almost no wind, so was a good day to start clearing leaf mess on the deck at the shallow end of pool instead of messing with filter. Pool is oriented with a SE shallow end that's the direction of the predominate wind, so leaves like to jump in.

Have been adding 2" of water at about 5:00 every day so that don't run risk of pump "starvation" by morning. Likely messes with FC levels. Changed to using my alt sucker tonight instead, so we'll see what happens by morning.