Our tile/coping guys did a great job. The coping is tight to the tile as well.
Results two years and two court dates later
- Thread starter klanel
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,393
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Then I want the overflow to begin when water is 4"-5" above the skimmer bottom.
Blocking the bottom of your drain is what I was going to suggest. I would use a piece of plexiglass and tack it on with some silicone. It would hardly be visible and could be removed and repositioned if necessary.
I turned off the returns on the spa last night and this morning water was down to about the bottom edge of the spillway rock which is 1" thick. The pebble finish goes up to the bottom of the spillway and since I don't want it to dry out, I wrapped plastic over that area to keep it hydrated and left the returns off for about 1/2 of today. In total, over a period of about 20 hours, the level dropped 1-1/2". I mainly wanted to see if the seepage was at the spillway rock or further down. So it appears to be further down.
There is one Jandy check valve at the bottom of the spa return. I skimmed over the installation instructions and it reads as follows:
For optimal sealing, place check valve at lowest elevation possible in plumbing system, so weight of water column can help seal it. Jandy recommends a water column with a minimum height of 18"
The water level in the spa is about 13" above the deck. (about 5 inches below the top of the spa) The top of the Jandy valve is 9" above the deck and the bottom of that valve is 4" above the deck. Depending on where you measure to the Jandy (top or bottom), the water in the spa when it's full is between 4 and 9 inches above the Jandy check valve. It doesn't seem like I have the minimum recommended "water column" that is mentioned in the instructions above to allow a good closure of the check valve.
Am I correct in my analysis or is there something I have not accounted for?
I am not going to let the water level drop any further for testing. I will give the builder an opportunity to correct whatever the issue is along with several other know issues and some possibly not yet know to me.
Pictures showing measurements from deck level below. In the spa, the full water level is 5" below the coping at the top.
There is one Jandy check valve at the bottom of the spa return. I skimmed over the installation instructions and it reads as follows:
For optimal sealing, place check valve at lowest elevation possible in plumbing system, so weight of water column can help seal it. Jandy recommends a water column with a minimum height of 18"
The water level in the spa is about 13" above the deck. (about 5 inches below the top of the spa) The top of the Jandy valve is 9" above the deck and the bottom of that valve is 4" above the deck. Depending on where you measure to the Jandy (top or bottom), the water in the spa when it's full is between 4 and 9 inches above the Jandy check valve. It doesn't seem like I have the minimum recommended "water column" that is mentioned in the instructions above to allow a good closure of the check valve.
Am I correct in my analysis or is there something I have not accounted for?
I am not going to let the water level drop any further for testing. I will give the builder an opportunity to correct whatever the issue is along with several other know issues and some possibly not yet know to me.
Pictures showing measurements from deck level below. In the spa, the full water level is 5" below the coping at the top.
If the Return valve was set to shut off the spa, then the check valve can't be the issue. There are on a couple of other options..
1. The Intake valve is leaking. You could plug the spa drain and see of the leak stopped.
2. The light is leaking.. Seems like you said this line was already plugged.
3. Or the spa plumbing is leaking, ???
Thanks,
Jim R.
1. The Intake valve is leaking. You could plug the spa drain and see of the leak stopped.
2. The light is leaking.. Seems like you said this line was already plugged.
3. Or the spa plumbing is leaking, ???
Thanks,
Jim R.
The LED conduit is capped at the pad but as you stated, could be a plumbing leak with that or with the spa returns/drains. At this point, I will for now allow the builder an opportunity to correct. Hopefully, not an issue underneath the deck or that will become a very expensive problem to correct.
The tile around the interior of the spa should have been brought up to the bottom of the spillway rock to allow more room if the water level dropped. As it is, lose an inch of water and the plaster is exposed. Another area where there was not enough attention paid to detail and no one out here overseeing what was being done. I will add this to my ever increasing list of things that need to be corrected.
And the latest thing reinforcing the lack of attention,..the builder told me they would be out here every 3 days (have it in writing) to brush/check/add chemicals to the pool. They have been here 3 times total so far. Second time was a week apart and this time was 4 days. The guy had his test kit out and I asked what the readings were. He told me the ph was 7.2 and that he didn't check the chlorine but was just going to add a gallon. The ph I had already checked was around 8,0 and I have kept the chlorine around 1.0-1.5 ppm. He poured an entire gallon of pool concentrate bleach into the pool and said we could swim in an hour or so. I tested up to 5 ppm and then quit without any changes from pink. Needless to say, I would not have been swimming in it.
This is a pic of the ph I tested just after he left. Another example of unprofessional work and not paying attention to details. I have since done his job for him by adding my own muriatic acid.
This morning chlorine is still at 4.5 ppm but I have the ph down to 7.6. I suspect the buy who came just dumps in lots of chlorine so people's water will stay clear and no one complains. I don't trust anything they do anymore so I try to check what I can.
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Our build was supposed to have one pump for the spa and another for the pool. When the plumber (I use the term loosely) came to make the connections, he said that it wasn't plumbed to use separate pumps.
Can someone educate me on what would have been required, plumbing and otherwise, to have had separate pumps?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of sharing one pump for both versus two separate pumps besides the cost of the pump and electric use?
Thank you!
Can someone educate me on what would have been required, plumbing and otherwise, to have had separate pumps?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of sharing one pump for both versus two separate pumps besides the cost of the pump and electric use?
Thank you!
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,393
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
A dedicated spa jet pump can give you more pressure out of the spa jets since it is not restricted by the filter and heater.
A spa with a dedicated spa jet pump has two sets of suction drains on the floor - one for the filter/pump to filter and heat the spa water while the other feeds the spa jets. And it has two sets of returns - one for the filtered heated water and one to the spa jets.
I think we discussed this someplace earlier on this thread but I am not going to search through it now.
Here is the way my 2 pump spa is setup...
A spa with a dedicated spa jet pump has two sets of suction drains on the floor - one for the filter/pump to filter and heat the spa water while the other feeds the spa jets. And it has two sets of returns - one for the filtered heated water and one to the spa jets.
I think we discussed this someplace earlier on this thread but I am not going to search through it now.
Here is the way my 2 pump spa is setup...
Sounds like I would have needed two more drains, another drain pipe and another return pipe from spa to pad. At this point, that would mean tearing out the deck, reworking the spa and reworking the plumbing for something that could have easily been taken care of before all the work was done.
Thanks for the explanation.
Thanks for the explanation.
The pool still isn't finished and the spa has been loosing water since it was filled two months ago. I notified the builder and get no response. But now I see water seeping from the side of the retaining wall so that has become a major concern. Also along that side, there are hairline cracks in the control joints that don't appear throughout the rest of the deck. I spoke with the concrete contractor and he confirmed that water seeping underneath the deck will compromise the fill underneath the deck.
With the returns to the spa closed, drain closed and pump running 24/7, there is a 3/4" drop in water level overnight which after 2 months of being ignored by the builder is apparently making it's way to the retaining walls. The electrician has not been here to install the LED's so that conduit is unfilled at the moment. But I do have a cap glued at the equipment pad and a 1-1/2" teflon wrapped plug in the spa end. Still leaking.
Unless water is getting by the plug I put in the LED conduit in the spa, I don't know where it is making the way out. I have to add a little water every couple of days to the pool. Over the last 24 hours, the pool water level has dropped 3-16 to 1/4". Don't know if that is due entirely to evaporation or if there is an issue with the pool too.
I may end up having to get someone else to complete the pool but how does someone go about finding the source of a leak? On the spa which has a known leak, what could be leaking if the valves are closed unless it's getting through the unoccupied LED conduit? This should have been an easier build but has become a nightmare.
Pic of water seepage below. In the heat, gets smaller. Overnight spreads out. and we haven;t had much rain in some time.
With the returns to the spa closed, drain closed and pump running 24/7, there is a 3/4" drop in water level overnight which after 2 months of being ignored by the builder is apparently making it's way to the retaining walls. The electrician has not been here to install the LED's so that conduit is unfilled at the moment. But I do have a cap glued at the equipment pad and a 1-1/2" teflon wrapped plug in the spa end. Still leaking.
Unless water is getting by the plug I put in the LED conduit in the spa, I don't know where it is making the way out. I have to add a little water every couple of days to the pool. Over the last 24 hours, the pool water level has dropped 3-16 to 1/4". Don't know if that is due entirely to evaporation or if there is an issue with the pool too.
I may end up having to get someone else to complete the pool but how does someone go about finding the source of a leak? On the spa which has a known leak, what could be leaking if the valves are closed unless it's getting through the unoccupied LED conduit? This should have been an easier build but has become a nightmare.
Pic of water seepage below. In the heat, gets smaller. Overnight spreads out. and we haven;t had much rain in some time.
The spa shell could be leaking itself, any penetrations I’d the intake drain oe return pipes as well. Get a leak detection company out quick. That retaining wall should have had a drain and crushed rock to catch moisture like that. Is there one?
The deck has (10) 6"deck drains connected to (3) 6" drains drain pipes exiting the walls. Don't think there are any other pipes exiting the walls. The builder was notified about the leak 2 months ago but has failed to respond. He has been given a 10 day notice and if no response, I will pursue other options to get it repaired/replaced/etc.
I just checked and the wall is still showing seepage and the spa levels have dropped as it has done since water was put in 2 months ago.
The wall needs a “French drain” style system at the base of it to collect ground water (or water leaking from the pool in this case) and drain it away from the back of the wall. It would be totally separate from any deck drains. Usually there’s a grate at the bottom of the wall where the water can escape rather than building up behind the wall.
Can you try plugging the spa jets along with sitting off the divertor valves for it? That might tell you if it’s the pipe that’s leaking or the shell itself. But you’ll have to wait a bit to see for sure because if there’s another ground water to seep through the wall, it’ll take a while to dry out.
The return valve is closed plus there is a check valve. In addition, the pump is never shut off. So for water to leave that path would require the failure of both the return valve, the check valve and overcome the pump pressure. The drain valve is closed as well and I have plugged the LED conduit where it terminates inside the spa wall although I can't say that my plug is water tight. With the seepage, I know there is a leak from at least the spa. I do have to add water to the pool but don't know if it is just evaporation and/or pool leak.
I have not plugged the spa jets inside the spa or the drains. Not sure how I would get them plugged.
If I don't get any response from the builder soon, I will have to make a decision to get the leak stopped and resolution later. My current thought is that it would be better to drain the spa (which would sacrifice the plaster) to prevent the deck from being compromised. The deck would be much more expensive to tear out and replace than replastering the spa. And depending on what issue is up with the spa, it might have to be replastered anyway.
They sell winterizing plugs for spa jets. That might be an option. Your plan sounds reasonable though.
Thanks for that info. Upon further thought, How can I seal off the drains and led conduit hole with something water tight but removable?
After they were tamping getting ready to pour the deck, I found where the LED conduit had gotten crushed and they wrapped it with tape. I think they replaced the conduit but it was crushed right next to where it went into the concrete. I can't help but think that is where the leak is coming from. I need a way to knowingly seal off the LED conduit hole from inside the spa. Something that can be removed but water tight.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,393
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I don't like that it looks like they used flex PVC hose instead of ridgid PVC pipe.
Do you know where flex PVC was used?
Flex PVC is much more susceptible to damage then hard PVC.
They replaced it with rigid pvc. Just wondering if the damage was into the concrete like a crack? I added some vapor wrap to my plug and screwed it back in to see if the loss decreases/stops.
As mentioned above, Try the dye test near that light fixture and see if the color gets sucked in.
You may be able to drain the spa below the light fixture to help test that?