It may another couple of days before someone comes back to re-test and make adjustments. As of yesterday, ph/8.0 Will it hurt anything to leave it there until they come back or should I add muratic acid to lower before then?
Results two years and two court dates later
- Thread starter klanel
- Start date
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,439
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
We have a taylor test kit and it only goes to 8.0 so I don't really know beyond that. Do we need test strips?
- Jul 21, 2013
- 65,439
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Test strips will not tell you anymore.
You can tell when the color is above 8.0. When it is then take it down.
Hi. I never had cloudy water at start up but maybe it was all that baking soda. You can just pour baking soda but I like to dilute in bucket for newer plaster then pour. The diluted baking soda is cloudy but clears up in minutes.
It was mixed with water and brushed afterwards. I will add a bit of muriatic acid and bump the numbers down until they return.
When the plumber came, pool was full of water and none of the pipes were labeled. He used vacuum cleaner to locate lines, plumbed and left with no labeling (posted previously)
Since I have no idea of what anything does, I just turn things back and forth without having a clue. We've had a lot of wind lately and the skimmer is not getting as much as I think it should. So, I have played around with the valves hoping that I could close off the main drains some and force more water into the skimmers. I have seen the skimmers go from action to no action but nothing drastic. That leads me to wonder if the main drains are plumbed and active, etc. The water is a bit chilly so I don't have any intention of going to the bottom right now to check.
Since I don't know what valves control what, I have been playing around with some of the three way thinking that they may be selecting between the main drains and skimmers. It's a bit frustrating when nothing is labeled and there isn't anyone available to ask builder wise. I will have to add that to my list of things that the builder has to verify working correctly prior to final payments.
How much skimmer action should I expect to see? In the windy days, debris can float within a foot or two and keep going by.
PS: I have a couple of valves that can go into the bottom of the skimmers. They came with the skimmers and no one has asked about them or said they needed to be used. Are they just to close off the skimmer if the water level gets too low so it doesn't suck air?
Since I have no idea of what anything does, I just turn things back and forth without having a clue. We've had a lot of wind lately and the skimmer is not getting as much as I think it should. So, I have played around with the valves hoping that I could close off the main drains some and force more water into the skimmers. I have seen the skimmers go from action to no action but nothing drastic. That leads me to wonder if the main drains are plumbed and active, etc. The water is a bit chilly so I don't have any intention of going to the bottom right now to check.
Since I don't know what valves control what, I have been playing around with some of the three way thinking that they may be selecting between the main drains and skimmers. It's a bit frustrating when nothing is labeled and there isn't anyone available to ask builder wise. I will have to add that to my list of things that the builder has to verify working correctly prior to final payments.
How much skimmer action should I expect to see? In the windy days, debris can float within a foot or two and keep going by.
PS: I have a couple of valves that can go into the bottom of the skimmers. They came with the skimmers and no one has asked about them or said they needed to be used. Are they just to close off the skimmer if the water level gets too low so it doesn't suck air?
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What are the best practices for supply and return lines? I took pictures during construction but don't know if they are enough of them to reconstruct how ours was plumbed. What has brought this to particular interest is that I don't feel like the skimmers are drawing in enough water to encourage more debris. None of the pipes/valves are labeled so I have been been moving valves around without any idea of what is what.
I can't say with certainty about much but this is what I think I know. The pool has 3 returns, 2 bubblers, 4 deck jets, 2 skimmers, 2 bottom drains, and one vac port. The spa has the circular ring of returns and 2 bottom drains. And there is an air line connected to the spa returns. I know the deck jets are plumbed on a ring by themselves. The bubblers are by themselves. The skimmers only have one pipe leaving each but do not know if they are connected back to the bottom drains or come back to the pad independently. The returns on the spa are dedicated and the spa drains are dedicated.
I don't know what I have but in hindsight the pool drains and skimmers should be separate runs back to the pad, drains sharing one run and the skimmers sharing one run. Then I could control the flow division between the bottom drains and skimmers. But if the drains and skimmers are connected together underneath the deck, I don't have an option. If they aren't independent runs, I am thinking if I need more skimmer action that they could also tie the skimmers into the spa drain back at the pad where I can get more flow. I guess that would affect having the option of heating the spa alone but if it is the only way to gain more skimmer action, then it would be a better trade off.
Currently the builder has put me in the ignore mode so I am unable to address my questions to him. What are the best practices, what is typically done, especially in regard to the bottom drain and skimmer lines back to the pump? Thank you
I can't say with certainty about much but this is what I think I know. The pool has 3 returns, 2 bubblers, 4 deck jets, 2 skimmers, 2 bottom drains, and one vac port. The spa has the circular ring of returns and 2 bottom drains. And there is an air line connected to the spa returns. I know the deck jets are plumbed on a ring by themselves. The bubblers are by themselves. The skimmers only have one pipe leaving each but do not know if they are connected back to the bottom drains or come back to the pad independently. The returns on the spa are dedicated and the spa drains are dedicated.
I don't know what I have but in hindsight the pool drains and skimmers should be separate runs back to the pad, drains sharing one run and the skimmers sharing one run. Then I could control the flow division between the bottom drains and skimmers. But if the drains and skimmers are connected together underneath the deck, I don't have an option. If they aren't independent runs, I am thinking if I need more skimmer action that they could also tie the skimmers into the spa drain back at the pad where I can get more flow. I guess that would affect having the option of heating the spa alone but if it is the only way to gain more skimmer action, then it would be a better trade off.
Currently the builder has put me in the ignore mode so I am unable to address my questions to him. What are the best practices, what is typically done, especially in regard to the bottom drain and skimmer lines back to the pump? Thank you
TampaKathy
Gold Supporter
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,388
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Your two main drains are connected to each other as an anti-entrapment feature.
It looks to me like Valve C handles suction from either pool or spa. In the photo above, the valve is pulling from both sources. Rotate as shown in the photo above for spa mode. The "off" tab the valve opposite the handle will be facing the pool suction line. Keep rotating for pool mode. Keep it in pool mode unless you're using the spa.
It looks like Valve A handles suction between main (bottom) drain and skimmers. Valve B balances suction between the two skimmers. Try turning off suction to the main drain (valve handle at 12 o'clock) and check skimmer action. If it increases skimmer suction, you're on the right track. Now adjust suction between skimmers by using Valve B.
If all this works, try adding a little suction from the main drain, maybe 10-20%.
The diverter/float valves for the skimmers are designed to close off skimmer suction if the water level drops. If this happens, all suction will be pulling from the the main drain line.
It looks to me like Valve C handles suction from either pool or spa. In the photo above, the valve is pulling from both sources. Rotate as shown in the photo above for spa mode. The "off" tab the valve opposite the handle will be facing the pool suction line. Keep rotating for pool mode. Keep it in pool mode unless you're using the spa.
It looks like Valve A handles suction between main (bottom) drain and skimmers. Valve B balances suction between the two skimmers. Try turning off suction to the main drain (valve handle at 12 o'clock) and check skimmer action. If it increases skimmer suction, you're on the right track. Now adjust suction between skimmers by using Valve B.
If all this works, try adding a little suction from the main drain, maybe 10-20%.
The diverter/float valves for the skimmers are designed to close off skimmer suction if the water level drops. If this happens, all suction will be pulling from the the main drain line.
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I will try your suggestions this afternoon. Someone may come to brush/add chemicals today that may be of help. Will post later, thank you both!
The results are in the picture.
The builder spec was for a 1.85hp pump which I upgraded to a 2.7 vsp. So on high, I can more action from the skimmers but I think there must be too much water coming in from the bottom drains. If the skimmers and drains are tied together in the ground, the only way I can see in solving this issue would be to install some sort of restriction in the drain itself. If they are tied together, the pressure of the water on the bottom drains would likely make it much easier for water to flow from there than from the skimmers. I hope that this is not the case and there is something that is just not plumbed correctly at the pad.
Both skimmers stopped working and the spa started draining.
The only time I saw a definite improvement in skimmer action was by rotating "B" but the lower (shallow end) skimmer stopped working. Nothing stopped just the upper (deep end) skimmer from working. As previously stated, there were no labels when the plumber arrived and none when he left. I will try to go through some old photos and see if I can tell how the pipes were connected underground. But I think it may not show enough for what I need.
The builder spec was for a 1.85hp pump which I upgraded to a 2.7 vsp. So on high, I can more action from the skimmers but I think there must be too much water coming in from the bottom drains. If the skimmers and drains are tied together in the ground, the only way I can see in solving this issue would be to install some sort of restriction in the drain itself. If they are tied together, the pressure of the water on the bottom drains would likely make it much easier for water to flow from there than from the skimmers. I hope that this is not the case and there is something that is just not plumbed correctly at the pad.
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,388
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
The second to last image (Valve A at 12 o'clock) will give you full skimmer suction. Move Valve B to around the 10-11 o'clock position until you have the desired amount of suction from each skimmer.
You say that with confidence and I hope you are right. Thanks for taking the time to help in figuring things out. It should be the builder's job but he's not to be found at the moment. I will give it a try tomorrow and report back.
I had to loosen the top nut and rotate around for the "B" handle to point to 10-11 position. I rotated the "A" valve 180 degrees to where the handle was at 12 o'clock. The result was the upper skimmer stopped working.
I loosened the "B" handle and rotated it back around the stops and put the pointer end at 10-11 position, leaving the "A" valve at 12 o'clock and upper skimmer not working and spa was beginning to drain.
As I have it back to what it was, both skimmers are working and the spa is holding level but the skimmers are weak in flow and I haven't found anything that seems to speed or slow both, just one or the other. I am wondering if they tied the pool drains and skimmers together underground and ran them back on one pipe? At one time the pipes were labeled with majic marker but after a years of exposure all the writing faded off.
- Apr 10, 2018
- 6,388
- Pool Size
- 18375
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
@klanel
Please tell me about your diagram above.. I see the valves A, B and C, but need to know if the black line is the handle of the valve, or if it is the "OFF" tab???
Some of what you say above is basically impossible, so for sure something is wrong.
After you answer my question, then we can do some troubleshooting tests to get us pointed in the right direction.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Please tell me about your diagram above.. I see the valves A, B and C, but need to know if the black line is the handle of the valve, or if it is the "OFF" tab???
Some of what you say above is basically impossible, so for sure something is wrong.
After you answer my question, then we can do some troubleshooting tests to get us pointed in the right direction.
Thanks,
Jim R.
Are you positive of this? Something seems off here. The 2nd setting and the 5th setting seem to contradict each other.
The black line is the handle.
A little background,...this was the plumber's first job for my builder. After he left, pool and spa full of water but no pump running, the spa was slowly draining down into the pool and I would have to add water to the spa to keep the plaster from being exposed. I contacted the plumber and he told me that valve "A" would be the one for spa mode/pool mode and that after an actuator was put on it, it should be ok. He said he didn't put a check valve on that line. He instructed me to unscrew the nut, lift the handle up slightly and rotate 180 degrees. I since have the pump running and can't test to see if the spa loses water.
What positions do the handles need to be in? Where they can rotate full motion? Or where they can only rotate 45 degrees or so before hitting the stops? It may be that some of the handles aren't positioned for full motion.
Tom, I think so but this has been totally confusing with nothing being labeled and not idea of what does what so I will check again.
Klanel,
OK.. I'd like to help you troubleshoot your system. Troubleshooting can't be done by 12 people all at the same time, so I suggest you only do what I say, until we get this figured out. That way, we will both be on the same page.
Basic troubleshooting is doing small things, one step at a time. Doing 20 different things all at the same time will get us no where but lost.
Task 1. Standing at the bottom of your pic and looking at the pump, point the handle of Valve C to 9 O'clock
Point the handle of Valve A to 3 O'clock
Point the handle of Valve B to 3 O'clock.
Set the pump to run at about 2500 RPM
My guess is this will shut off the Spa drain and the Upper Skimmer, but will turn on the Lower Skimmer.
Please do this one thing and then let me know what happens.
Thanks,
Jim R.
OK.. I'd like to help you troubleshoot your system. Troubleshooting can't be done by 12 people all at the same time, so I suggest you only do what I say, until we get this figured out. That way, we will both be on the same page.
Basic troubleshooting is doing small things, one step at a time. Doing 20 different things all at the same time will get us no where but lost.
Task 1. Standing at the bottom of your pic and looking at the pump, point the handle of Valve C to 9 O'clock
Point the handle of Valve A to 3 O'clock
Point the handle of Valve B to 3 O'clock.
Set the pump to run at about 2500 RPM
My guess is this will shut off the Spa drain and the Upper Skimmer, but will turn on the Lower Skimmer.
Please do this one thing and then let me know what happens.
Thanks,
Jim R.